Police safe inspection

[Dabi]

Just wondering what's the likelihood of Police checking on your stated safes here in Melbourne Vic, and how much force they will use in testing security. I have a safe screwed onto the wooden floor, it's tight but not as strong compared to bolting on concrete. I'm kinda worried that some 6'5 Schwarzenegger cop will round house kick it into oblivion even though I was told by the DFO they should be 'gentle' with it.

[goat]

Im in NSW but my safe inspection consisted of 2 cops looking at it for a couple of seconds and one giving it a gentle push that wouldn't have budged it even if it wasn't bolted down. I wouldn't be concerned that they are going to be hanging off it. If it is fixed with 4 coach screws or similar it will be more than adequate.

[Bent Arrow]

If your worried it's not secure enough, that's your answer right there.

[Dabi]

The thing is it definitely takes more than a man to shake it down and drag it away, and it doesn't really many how tight i bolt it down anyway, if they come prepared, they'll get a hold of the guns even if I lock it up in vault. If not, then my current safe will do, it's sturdy enough.

[womble]

Your reasoning is unsound

If you are going to do a job. Do it properly

[bladeracer]

Just wondering what's the likelihood of Police checking on your stated safes here in Melbourne Vic, and how much force they will use in testing security. I have a safe screwed onto the wooden floor, it's tight but not as strong compared to bolting on concrete. I'm kinda worried that some 6'5 Schwarzenegger cop will round house kick it into oblivion even though I was told by the DFO they should be 'gentle' with it.

As long as it not screwed down with Tek screws. Use 10mm coach screws into the floor and wall.

[Stix]

Just wondering what's the likelihood of Police checking on your stated safes here in Melbourne Vic, and how much force they will use in testing security. I have a safe screwed onto the wooden floor, it's tight but not as strong compared to bolting on concrete. I'm kinda worried that some 6'5 Schwarzenegger cop will round house kick it into oblivion even though I was told by the DFO they should be 'gentle' with it.

If your worried it's not secure enough, that's your answer right there.

Your reasoning is unsound

If you are going to do a job. Do it properly

Thems my kinda sentiments as well...

It appears you are installing a gun safe without the reasons for law behind it.

The idea behind gun safes being securely attached to the building are to make it hard for criminals to access firearms, so if they break into your home, they cannot, without taking reasonable time & effort, steal your guns & use them in an unlawful manner...

Yet you seem to have the idea the law is there to flippantly 'get around without getting fined'...

If you think you can justify the manner in which you have fixed the safes to the building either while having an inspection, or worse, after they have been ripped out by criminals, then you probably have no worries.

Us LAFO's should take reasonable measures to secure our firearms given what we already battle with in terms of rights & restrictions...although security is a cost burden, if we dont,secure our firearms properly, it wont bite other sectors of the community...it'll only harm ourselves...

Sorry if i appear blunt Dabi, just saying it how it is mate...

[Archie]

The Victorian requirements look a bit less detailed than the NSW ones which are quite specific on how things need to be fixed. The VicPol website has the following in reference to the receptacle:

...if it weighs less than 150 kilograms
when it is empty, must be fixed to the frame
of the floor or the wall of the premises where
the firearm is kept in such a manner that it is
not easily removable

I'm not an expert but I would say this. There's nothing that you can do to stop someone who has time to work and has come prepared. But when you say, one man couldn't take it away, how about two? There's a middle ground you need to cover between "one guy couldn't do it" and a person who comes prepared with proper tools. Explaining to the cops that two meth-heads broke in and made off with it in under ten minutes is going to be a lot more of a problem for you than anything a cop might do in an inspection.

[Sawyers]

The thing is it definitely takes more than a man to shake it down and drag it away, and it doesn't really many how tight i bolt it down anyway, if they come prepared, they'll get a hold of the guns even if I lock it up in vault. If not, then my current safe will do, it's sturdy enough.

My wife lockef her keys in her safe when I was out of town working, it tool her and our oldest boy around 20min to pull it off tne wall and jimmy the door open

[womble]

i was blunt and less than helpfull

floorboards say 20mm. reinforce from the crawlspace underneath with another 50mm hardwood. so 90mm stainless steel bolts at least 10mm thick with locktite nuts.
spring washers and flat washers inside the safe. flat washers beneath the hard wood. alternatively if you can source it 10mm steel plate beneath the floor, using the safes floor holes as a template to drill through.
i'd do the wall as well to restrict leverage. 30 dollars stud finder from bunnings also has the electrical wiring warning. locate the centre of the wall stud. 8-10mm wood screw bolts around 70mmm long galvanised or stainless, 10mm flat washers.

i do'nt think they'll send Chuck Norris out to inspect your safe, as he only works in the asian crime gang taskforce. but even if they did he aint budging that.

[Dabi]

Yea the thing is I have no beam on the wall at a good location to reinforce it, the only other thing I can do is drill a few more holes on the bottom and screw in a few more coach screws. They are a lot tougher than what I expected actually, there was little wobble even with 4 screws on wooden floor.

[Stix]

Yea the thing is I have no beam on the wall at a good location to reinforce it, the only other thing I can do is drill a few more holes on the bottom and screw in a few more coach screws. They are a lot tougher than what I expected actually, there was little wobble even with 4 screws on wooden floor.

Back the screws out & drive them in again while pushing down on the safe.
That might get rid of the wobble.

[Dabi]

Yea the thing is I have no beam on the wall at a good location to reinforce it, the only other thing I can do is drill a few more holes on the bottom and screw in a few more coach screws. They are a lot tougher than what I expected actually, there was little wobble even with 4 screws on wooden floor.

Back the screws out & drive them in again while pushing down on the safe.
That might get rid of the wobble.

my bad, what I mean was I was surprised how little wobble there was with just 4 screws, I was expecting more

[TassieTiger]

The cop that inspected mine - gave it a really good shake and tried to push/ pull it over. Given the weight of the things there is always going to be a small amount of movement. I actually ended up putting more anchor points into the wall, despite the cop saying I didn't really need them - but I wanted it secure...

[magnum012]

You would have to destroy the wall and jackhammer the concrete floor to remove my safe from the outside. A battery angle grinder with some cutting disks would be the easier way in.

[Angel]

Mine are wedged in... U would need to remove one to get the other. No mean feat consideting its over 100kg.

[zhuk]

I cut out the gyprock at points where my safes were going, added extra noggins reinforced with steel. Obviously NSW cops are more.particular,/stringent re specifications than VIC (no surprises lol) but inspections I've had the cop has grabbed hold of the safes and wrenched them as hard as he could. I'd personally be worried if there was any movement whatsoever.

[mickb]

Funny story, I once got an old 2750kg 6x4x4ft TDR bank safe, which the NAB was giving away almost free. Forklifted it to my garage and rolled it into place with a team of 4 mates on steel pipe sections. The forklift also got bogged twice and needed to be dragged out with the semi trailer they brought it on Cost a few hundred bucks but still cheaper than a new one.

later was looking into handguns which in QLD need safes to be bolted down for cat H The thing with this TDR safe, being a 'wormald 7000' is its six sided protection, walls and floor 4" thick with several layers of heavy steel/chromium and a 2" thick 'anti-arc' layer( Aloxite nuggets in copper matrix as the nuggest are harder than drill steel and copper very hard to plasma cut). These things were made in the 70's and 80's before we had all the online alarm and CCTV technology, they needed to be able to resist attacks fin remote regions while banks were closed. The paperwork was still in the safe, sold for $27,750 to the NAB. thats in 1985 money...

I was thinking how the hell do I get anything through those walls to bolt it down without hiring the oceans 11 team. It also destroys the safe fire rating which is two hours. I asked the cops if I could weld lugs or brackets or other things onto to bolt down( The very outside layer is regulalr steel) they said no for some reason or another.

I could have challenged it or come up with another way I think but not being much of a handyman anyway I ended up buying a standard 6mm 'tin can' safe to bolt down beside it for the pistols.

[bullzeye]

Cops didn’t even touch my safe.

They just wanted to see the guns and check the serial numbers.

Didn’t even ask to see where I store the ammo.

But they were both constables. No experience. I had to explain to them what a snap cap was.

Will be the luck of the draw who rocks up to your house. Prepare for a savvy officer who knows all the rules and regs.

[zhuk]

Cops didn’t even touch my safe.

They just wanted to see the guns and check the serial numbers.

Didn’t even ask to see where I store the ammo.

But they were both constables. No experience. I had to explain to them what a snap cap was.

Will be the luck of the draw who rocks up to your house. Prepare for a savvy officer who knows all the rules and regs.

Yep, depends who you get. The cop who wrenched on my safe looked like he was smelling something bad the whole time he was in attendance, and finished off by remarking "What do you want guns for anyway?!" lol

I bet the LAC trot him out for all the firearm inspections

[mickb]

on a serious note one thing I heard on the grapevine is certain states registries are sloppy with their own paperwork. Cops hitting the same owners for inspections in some areas just because they know their own records are correct for that person. It would be interesting to know if there are any external audits done of their systems to make sure they are running the whole thing effectively...

[bullzeye]

Cops didn’t even touch my safe.

They just wanted to see the guns and check the serial numbers.

Didn’t even ask to see where I store the ammo.

But they were both constables. No experience. I had to explain to them what a snap cap was.

Will be the luck of the draw who rocks up to your house. Prepare for a savvy officer who knows all the rules and regs.

Yep, depends who you get. The cop who wrenched on my safe looked like he was smelling something bad the whole time he was in attendance, and finished off by remarking "What do you want guns for anyway?!" lol

I bet the LAC trot him out for all the firearm inspections

They asked me the same thing.

“What are your guns for?”

If you say personal defence, or some other unsavoury answer - your guns will be taken on the spot.

The correct answer is:

Target shooting
Hunting
Collecting etc

Your genuine reason.

Pretty obvious (hopefully).

[TassieTiger]

Cops didn’t even touch my safe.

They just wanted to see the guns and check the serial numbers.

Didn’t even ask to see where I store the ammo.

But they were both constables. No experience. I had to explain to them what a snap cap was.

Will be the luck of the draw who rocks up to your house. Prepare for a savvy officer who knows all the rules and regs.

Yep, depends who you get. The cop who wrenched on my safe looked like he was smelling something bad the whole time he was in attendance, and finished off by remarking "What do you want guns for anyway?!" lol

I bet the LAC trot him out for all the firearm inspections

They asked me the same thing.

“What are your guns for?”

If you say personal defence, or some other unsavoury answer - your guns will be taken on the spot.

The correct answer is:

Target shooting
Hunting
Collecting etc

Your genuine reason.

Pretty obvious (hopefully).

Be careful mate - it’s NOT that obvious.
If you are asked for your genuine reason - you can ONLY reply as to what is EXACTLY on your licence. If your licence says you have a 12g for hunting reason and you enjoy target shooting a few clays and say so to the wrong person, but aren’t endorsed on your licence for targets - you’ll lose your firearms...

[womble]

I would have told him a snap cap is a type of butt plug
Probably the only question I would have answered actually

[zhuk]

Cops didn’t even touch my safe.

They just wanted to see the guns and check the serial numbers.

Didn’t even ask to see where I store the ammo.

But they were both constables. No experience. I had to explain to them what a snap cap was.

Will be the luck of the draw who rocks up to your house. Prepare for a savvy officer who knows all the rules and regs.

Yep, depends who you get. The cop who wrenched on my safe looked like he was smelling something bad the whole time he was in attendance, and finished off by remarking "What do you want guns for anyway?!" lol

I bet the LAC trot him out for all the firearm inspections

They asked me the same thing.

“What are your guns for?”

If you say personal defence, or some other unsavoury answer - your guns will be taken on the spot.

The correct answer is:

Target shooting
Hunting
Collecting etc

Your genuine reason.

Pretty obvious (hopefully).

Sure, but he wasn't asking what my genuine reasons were. He was asking (in a bit of a belligerent tone) why I wanted to own guns AT ALL.