Gun confiscation

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Gun confiscation

Post by straightshooter » 14 Sep 2018, 7:44 am

I came across this article.
A Brief History Of Repressive Regimes And Their Gun Laws
Nothing new to many of us but newcomers may be interested.
Just remember, what happens 'over there' soon finds it's way over here.
I don't know how to link to it so I just pasted it here.

Submitted by Jose Nino via The Mises Institute

Arguably one of the rights that has seen less government encroachment in the US — in contrast to other activities such as commerce — gun rights are now witnessing unprecedented attacks at the state level and even from politically-connected corporate entities.

Although gun control laws are not created equally in terms of overall impact, gun confiscation holds a special place in the halls of political repression. A trip down memory lane will give us a refresher of how gun confiscation has helped consolidate government power.

The Soviet Union and Its Satellite States

The Soviet Union left its mark as one of the deadliest political regimes in the history of mankind. However, it could not get away with such atrocities without having a complete monopoly on the use of force.

Ironically, the famous Soviet leader Vladimir Lenin called for a proletarian militia in his essay Letters From Afar. Lenin charted out his vision in the following passage:

What kind of militia do we need, the proletariat, all the toiling people? A genuine people’s militia, i.e., one that, first, consists of the entire population, of all adult citizens of both sexes; and, second, one that combines the functions of a people’s army with police functions, with the functions of the chief and fundamental organ of public order and public administration.

Lenin’s ideas manifested themselves in military form once the Military Revolutionary Committee was created in late 1917. Despite the ostensive revolutionary nature, these military forces morphed into another enforcement arm of the State.

To maintain its iron grip, the Soviet Union had to turn to the most proven form of suppression — gun confiscation. On December 10, 1918, the Council of People’s Commissar mandated that Soviet citizens turn in their firearms. Failure to do so, led to criminal prosecution.

Soviet gun control laws remained tight in the following decades, although the government did go out of its way to give Communist Party affiliates privileged access to firearms.

Once World War II came to an end, Eastern European countries took after their Soviet overlords and started implementing gun confiscation, as detailed in Firearms Possession by 'Non-State Actors': The Question of Sovereignty. Several countries stood out during this time period:

Bulgaria: Once Communists took power in 1944, they confiscated privately owned firearms.
East Germany: Private gun ownership was banned, even though the government did allow for agricultural collectives to possess hunting weapons while taking part in government-supervised hunts.
Hungary: Communist Minister of the Interior, Lazlo Rajk dissolved all pistol and hunting clubs, while also dismantling other organizations that potentially posed a threat to government power.
Although the numbers are highly disputed, Robert Conquest contends in his book The Great Terror that at least 15 million people perished under Soviet rule.

Nazi Germany

These days the word Nazi is tossed around liberally, almost rendering its definition meaningless. Regardless, the history of Nazi Germany should never be forgotten. Interestingly, both sides of the gun debate make mistakes when discussing gun control policy in Nazi Germany.

The pro-gun control side claims that gun rights were actually expanded under Nazi rule, but there is more to this story. The marginal liberalization in gun laws specifically favored the German populace. Independent Institute Senior Fellow Stephen P. Halbrook gives a nuanced account of the Nazi’s gun policy:

In 1938, Hitler signed a new Gun Control Act. Now that many “enemies of the state” had been removed from society, some restrictions could be slightly liberalized, especially for Nazi Party members. But Jews were prohibited from working in the firearms industry, and .22 caliber hollow-point ammunition was banned.

In sum, the Jewish populace was disarmed and had no way of defending itself against the increasingly militant Nazi political operatives.

But pro-gun advocates aren’t exempt from making mistakes in their analysis either.

Second Amendment supporters often attribute gun control’s passage exclusively to Adolf Hitler’s government. However, a more thorough review of history demonstrates that the preceding Weimar government was responsible for passing gun registration. Weimar officials rationalized the passage of gun control in the name of public order, for fear of Nazis and Communists coming to blows on the street.

Unbeknownst to the Weimar government, their gun control framework would later be exploited by the Nazis to disarm the Jews and subject them to one of the most horrific cases of genocide in human history.

Cuba

Once one of Latin America’s most prosperous countries, Cuba succumbed to the siren song of socialism when Fidel Castro took power in 1959.

Similar to the Nazi case, Castro took advantage of firearm registration lists established by the previous government. Once the dictator Fulgencio Batista was deposed, Castro’s tyrannical instincts kicked in. In a speech at the Maestre Barracks of San Ambrosio, Castro exclaimed:

Guns, for what? To fight against whom? Against the Revolutionary government that has the support of the people?

Following this speech, gun confiscation slowly commenced. The Castro government started by targeting rival revolutionary groups, who fought the Batista government but were not Communist affiliates. Then, the Castro government broadened the definition of “rival revolutionaries” to disarm more of the populace.

To this day, Cuba has strict firearms regulations. Government entities like the National Revolutionary Police, the Ministry of the Interior, and the Ministry of the Revolutionary Armed Forces are in charge of regulating firearms.

Like other socialist programs, the Cuban experience has been filled with death and economic destruction. Estimates point to 141,000 Cubans murdered at the hands of the Castro regime, with millions of Cubans fleeing to the United States in search of greener pastures.

Venezuela

It’s no secret that the Venezuelan government has eviscerated property rights and fundamental civil liberties in the crisis beleaguered country. But how has the Venezuelan government been able to stay in power? The Venezuelan government’s civilian disarmament campaign is an oft-ignored abuse of human rights in discussions concerning Venezuela’s political crisis.

The Venezuelan government started by passing the original version of the Control of Arms, Munitions and Disarmament Law. Since then, the law has been modified to broaden the scope of the firearms regulated by the Venezuelan Armed forces, who have the power to register, control, and confiscate firearms.

The day of reckoning came when Venezuela banned the sale of firearms and ammo in 2012, under the guise of fighting crime. Despite the gun ban in place, crime rates continue to skyrocket.

Now Venezuelans have no way of defending themselves against a government that is free to muzzle their speech, expropriate their wealth, debase their currency, and starve them to death. And if that weren’t enough, the average Venezuelan must contend with the constant threat of common criminals and colectivos, Venezuela’s infamous pro-government paramilitary units.

Even in the 21st century, the nasty effects of gun confiscation are still being felt.

Is South Africa Next?

South Africa has recently embraced gun confiscation. According to The Citizen, the Constitutional Court of South Africa ordered the confiscation of about 300,000 firearms on June 7, 2018. To say political tension in South Africa is mounting would be an understatement.

Since ending apartheid, South Africa has embarked on a troubling route of economic statism. To make matters worse, the South African government is currently pursuing land redistribution in order to address so-called racial injustices.

Although politicians from the African National Congress (ANC) party have recently backed down from ramming land confiscation legislation into law, there is no telling what could be in store for South Africans now that gun confiscation has been activated.

It would be a mistake to believe South Africa’s gun confiscation ordinance was a random occurrence; it’s the logical conclusion of South Africa’s current gun control framework. The genesis of this troubling development began with the passage of the Firearms Control Act of 2000, which features an extensive system of gun registration.

It’s easy for anti-gun entities to identify gun owners and confiscate their firearms in the long-run when they have their information on the books. With the wrong political actors in power, yesterday's “common-sense” gun control could be tomorrow's vehicle for gun confiscation.

Time will tell if South Africa will descend down the path of tyranny, but its gun control experiment may prove to be fatal should the country take a turn for the worse.

Gun control may not have a path dependency toward tyranny. However, gun confiscation is an egregious form of gun control that allows authoritarians to steamroll their subjects at will. The way gun confiscation enhances the consolidation of state power is undeniable. A disarmed populace is simply no match for a repressive apparatus that has a monopoly on the use of force.

Gun rights might not guarantee victory against tyrants, but being deprived of them all but guarantees submission.
"There is no expedient to which a man will not resort to avoid the real labor of thinking." Sir Joshua Reynolds
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Re: Gun confiscation

Post by Chronos » 14 Sep 2018, 9:51 am

Stop reading US gun rights propaganda and their twisting of the 2nd amendment and go to the range and shoot. Take a friend or two, not only will you feel better but by contributing to the range you'll help keep it open to allow more shooters to learn to shoot. Big picture

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Re: Gun confiscation

Post by No1_49er » 14 Sep 2018, 11:07 am

Proud member of "the powerful gun lobby" of Australia :)
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Re: Gun confiscation

Post by Ziad » 14 Sep 2018, 4:27 pm

can you also explain the point of what you trying to explain. Is it that you saying that governments introduce gun registration and use that info to first confiscate the guns. Next they oppress their population and this eventually results in the state to fail.

If not can you please explain, so they let's whip may raaf this thread get the idea
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Re: Gun confiscation

Post by Ziad » 14 Sep 2018, 6:35 pm

Further to that idea, can you please explain how this idea applies to communist china.... new Zealand Zealand and United kingdom.

In first example they never had guns available, but whatever you say they also are the economic powerhouse of the world.and lots of ppl there have lots and lots of money.. if they weren't then went so I hear everyone saying that Chinese are buying up all the lands in Australia.

In second and third example, while they have firearm registration, they never had the second amendment so firearms were never freely available.

Ohh while there can you explain Hong Kong, as like china it never had freely guns available, and now its actually under the control of communist china..... but still its one of the most prosperous areas on thre world
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Re: Gun confiscation

Post by No1_49er » 14 Sep 2018, 8:10 pm

Ziad wrote:Further to that idea, can you please explain how this idea applies to communist china.... new Zealand Zealand and United kingdom.

In first example they never had guns available, but whatever you say they also are the economic powerhouse of the world.and lots of ppl there have lots and lots of money.. if they weren't then went so I hear everyone saying that Chinese are buying up all the lands in Australia.

In second and third example, while they have firearm registration, they never had the second amendment so firearms were never freely available.

Ohh while there can you explain Hong Kong, as like china it never had freely guns available, and now its actually under the control of communist china..... but still its one of the most prosperous areas on thre world

Get a grip Ziad!
NZ does NOT have universal registration. And, firearms are very freely available to those fit and proper persons who have a licence. Registration is only required for anything above what we would call Cat A or B, pistols, and Auto's.
Their MSSA's are registered, and a paper trail is needed for a transfer, but it's easily done if you have an E category licence. Pistol ownership is somewhat similar to here in that you need to complete a certain number of shoots per annum.
Put simply, if you want a rim or centre fire rifle, easy. Walk in, hand over the cash after verifying your (fit and proper person) licence, and walk out. Same with personal/private vendor transactions. BTW, that also applies to the likes of Ruger 10/22's, Browning A5's etc.
Proud member of "the powerful gun lobby" of Australia :)
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Re: Gun confiscation

Post by Ziad » 14 Sep 2018, 8:51 pm

What about the other countries?
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Re: Gun confiscation

Post by No1_49er » 14 Sep 2018, 10:08 pm

Ziad wrote:What about the other countries?

Up to you to provide evidence I guess. It's your statement.
I just happen to be lucky enough to live and work in both of the trans-Tasman countries. Licenced in both - firearms in both.
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Re: Gun confiscation

Post by Nigel » 15 Sep 2018, 1:15 am

Ziad wrote:but whatever you say they also are the economic powerhouse of the world.and lots of ppl there have lots and lots of money

What are you saying...we should abandon liberal democracy and give single party dictatorship a run?
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Re: Gun confiscation

Post by Ziad » 15 Sep 2018, 6:46 am

Why not mate, it's already like that in many things in aus.

Like North Korea, government agencies can wiretap and spy on any of the citizens without court orders, they can detain you if they are suspicious buy without evidence, and media is controlled or funding is cut cuz it's branded a lefty organization. If you want to be a whistleblower, ssue you can... but they will jail you and have severe penalties. The rulers can and will award hundred of millions of dollar contracts to their friends.

I could go on and on. And its the liberal government, and the more conservative ones who have allowed this to happen.
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Re: Gun confiscation

Post by Daddybang » 15 Sep 2018, 7:45 am

Ziad wrote:Why not mate, it's already like that in many things in aus.

Like North Korea, government agencies can wiretap and spy on any of the citizens without court orders, they can detain you if they are suspicious buy without evidence, and media is controlled or funding is cut cuz it's branded a lefty organization. If you want to be a whistleblower, ssue you can... but they will jail you and have severe penalties. The rulers can and will award hundred of millions of dollar contracts to their friends.

I could go on and on. And its the liberal government, and the more conservative ones who have allowed this to happen.


I reckon ya need to have a better look at the political history of Australia :thumbsup: :drinks:
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Re: Gun confiscation

Post by grandadbushy » 15 Sep 2018, 9:31 am

Ziad mate I can understand what you are saying but more to the point most of it is caused by 'corruption '' or bad leadership not dictatorship
although at times you would think it was
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Re: Gun confiscation

Post by Ziad » 15 Sep 2018, 9:39 am

The United communist liberal greens and labour party has already formed and their only have 2 agendas. First is agenda 21 which is the product of athena 7 and agenda 3 of the UN passed by the resolution 420 . They aim to increase the production of tin foils to get economies of scale and make them cheap as for all to buy.
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Re: Gun confiscation

Post by Nigel » 15 Sep 2018, 10:38 pm

Ziad wrote:The United communist liberal greens and labour party has already formed and their only have 2 agendas. First is agenda 21 which is the product of athena 7 and agenda 3 of the UN passed by the resolution 420 . They aim to increase the production of tin foils to get economies of scale and make them cheap as for all to buy.

Are you having a laugh or are these really the streams of consciousness flowing through your mind? If this is real, you need a team of psychiatrists on your case without delay.
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Re: Gun confiscation

Post by bigrich » 16 Sep 2018, 5:21 am

grandadbushy wrote:Ziad mate I can understand what you are saying but more to the point most of it is caused by 'corruption '' or bad leadership not dictatorship
although at times you would think it was


this statement is fairly accurate i think, in my opinion, both sides of politics have been too leftist in recent years, more willing to pander to minority interests (like gun control groups ! ) and making decisions relating to international interests ( UN ! ) , RATHER THAN SERVING THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY ! a lot of people rag on SSAA (quite rightly too in some instances ), but without a organised group like them, we don't have numbers on paper which is all polly's understand. numbers = voters ! i'm gunna look into shooters union myself soon as a alternative. without representation by these groups, confiscation would/could be a real posibility . with regards to dictatorship, us folk in queensland will remember "sir " joh bjelke peterson. he sacked striking union power workers ,yes the whole lot !, who were holding the state to ransom at xmas time (a lot of queenslanders loved him for that ). as a kid though, i remember seeing on tv, police with batons belting the utter christ out of peacfully , striking teachers. the most disgusting thing i've ever seen the cops do. queensland was known for being a police state for incidents like this. his mate "russ hinze ", was in control of about seven government departments,his nick-name was "the minister for everything". true ! main roads, mining, racing. he looked like "boss hog" from the original "dukes of hazzard", and woulda bin every bit as corrupt. so ya see guys, we've already had a dictatorship in this country. the years after it were a lot better with better leaders like wayne goss. now we've got ugly anna "palace-chook" who's a poster-child for leftist labor and one of the most piss-poor leaders we've ever had. election time cant come soon enough, but it must be rigged, cause everyone i know voted for auntie pauline. there, cranky old b@rstard rant over, i'm gunna go shoot my guns later. cheers :thumbsup:
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Re: Gun confiscation

Post by Daddybang » 16 Sep 2018, 8:11 am

Nigel wrote:
Ziad wrote:The United communist liberal greens and labour party has already formed and their only have 2 agendas. First is agenda 21 which is the product of athena 7 and agenda 3 of the UN passed by the resolution 420 . They aim to increase the production of tin foils to get economies of scale and make them cheap as for all to buy.

Are you having a laugh or are these really the streams of consciousness flowing through your mind? If this is real, you need a team of psychiatrists on your case without delay.


He's trying to be funny by mocking other.peoples views. :drinks:
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Re: Gun confiscation

Post by Ziad » 16 Sep 2018, 9:22 am

Yes I am. I am sorry if your feelings got hurt. But in the age of 3d printers, internet. Do you really think all the doomsday predictions will come true or maybe you are over thinking it.... or maybe you might be right.

I would say currently about 5% of the population is a licensed firearm owner. Love it or hate it ssaa get a lot of money from us, and do you think if they would lie down, roll over and shut up shop. Let's forget that cuz they like money from there 190k members. (There are still 600k LFO they most probably would like to convert into their members.

How much money do you think the government makes from firearms and ammo sales. Think about the GST, the duty earned and the tax paid by the importers making profits. I would say it would be in billion dollar territory. Then add in all the sales the big arms manufacturers will lose they won't allow it in the USA nor Australia.

They haven't stopped the sale of cigarettes and even legalising sales of drugs to earn more money.

And lastly all examples if bad things that are given, happened 30 or 40 years ago in communist countries, before the internet, if you look at recent history like the middle east, internet actually opens, closed societies.

Now I would suggest instead of reading conspiricy theories and wasting your time on them. Keep on doing all the good work tipu already do (like on this forum) I have plenty of things still to learn (and conspiracy theories is not one of them).

Unless you want me to start taking about how 7/11 and twin towers etc was done so the governments can get all their surveillance and oppression laws passed easily.

Anyway from now I promise to pay closer attention to what I type as its not my intention to make any derogatory comments.
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Re: Gun confiscation

Post by grandadbushy » 16 Sep 2018, 9:50 am

Good read bigrich :thumbsup: brings back memories
Yep just people trying to get a little more in their pay packet , not being listened to and treated like animals by the then government :thumbsdown:
A lot of people don't realise how quick the situation can go pear shaped with governments and how violent it can be :crazy:
But then again it depends on who you listen to there still a small majority that would like to see people treated like that again
but it's mostly those with something to gain from it :roll:
My opinion is it's best to have a large governing body like the SSAA or SHOOTERS UNION fighting along side us gun owners even
though sometimes we don't agree with them :|
The workers of the JOH years had the union but corruption leaked in and the workers were beaten :(
Corruption is what we have to be aware of having a large outside entity speaking on our behalf but it's the only way to have the power to
alter gov decisions that will most likely be against our best interests as shooters and gun owners so we have to be vigilant and vote accordingly
as one :thumbsup:
If we try and stand alone we are definitely doomed to being mistreated by power seekers in governments :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown:
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