Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

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Re: Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Post by sungazer » 17 Jun 2018, 7:43 pm

So you used a club as a supporting reason for the hunting? If you had a property or a friend with a property you would not need to attend or be a member of a club. Things are a little more relaxed in Vic re using hunting as a genuine reason.
I am a primary producer and could possibly get a semi auto other than not really needing one. I could probably justify a semi auto centre fire more than a rimfire as I have more issues with large bunnies than small ones. Also deer are a bit of a good problem to have why cull them all quickly when you can keep the fridge full. I think you really need to be able to show really good cause why you need one. To have a gun that I could only shoot on my property and not share the fun with like minded friends is a bit lonely. I would be over it pretty quickly. The 22LR semi to me is a fun plinking gun to be used with others shooting gallery type reactive targets.
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Re: Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Post by Ziad » 17 Jun 2018, 8:20 pm

Thanks for ther replies guys...as I thought, it's like a desire not a need. Maybe 0.1% shooters would really use it apart from the novelty factor. My wish would be some range somewhere hey a permit to get semi auto... sp ppl can shoot it a few time, or maybe I'd they key me into usa I might try it there.

While I agree a good law abiding licensed shooter will be good, but objectively thinking about it, the possibility is larger for more damage if it went into wrong hands.

Rather than dreaming of semi auto we all should send wish for sound moderators. But wishing and sitting on the keyboard doesn't make anything happen
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Re: Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Post by sungazer » 17 Jun 2018, 8:34 pm

if I were to choose it would be semi auto over sound moderator any day of the week. I really dont see a benefit of the Suppressors imho they are not great for the rifle or for accuracy. Much more fun to be had with the semi.
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Re: Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Post by bullzeye » 17 Jun 2018, 9:13 pm

sungazer wrote:So you used a club as a supporting reason for the hunting? If you had a property or a friend with a property you would not need to attend or be a member of a club. Things are a little more relaxed in Vic re using hunting as a genuine reason.
I am a primary producer and could possibly get a semi auto other than not really needing one. I could probably justify a semi auto centre fire more than a rimfire as I have more issues with large bunnies than small ones. Also deer are a bit of a good problem to have why cull them all quickly when you can keep the fridge full. I think you really need to be able to show really good cause why you need one. To have a gun that I could only shoot on my property and not share the fun with like minded friends is a bit lonely. I would be over it pretty quickly. The 22LR semi to me is a fun plinking gun to be used with others shooting gallery type reactive targets.


I’m in Sydney. Unfortunately I don’t know anyone with a farm who can vouch for my genuine reason.

After all the BS we have been though with gun regulations - if you can legally get a semi auto 22, why not take it up? It’s your right to do so.
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Re: Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Post by magnum56 » 17 Jun 2018, 9:16 pm

Ziad wrote:Thanks for ther replies guys...as I thought, it's like a desire not a need. Maybe 0.1% shooters would really use it apart from the novelty factor. My wish would be some range somewhere hey a permit to get semi auto... sp ppl can shoot it a few time, or maybe I'd they key me into usa I might try it there.

While I agree a good law abiding licensed shooter will be good, but objectively thinking about it, the possibility is larger for more damage if it went into wrong hands.

Rather than dreaming of semi auto we all should send wish for sound moderators. But wishing and sitting on the keyboard doesn't make anything happen



I would like to address a few of your points as follows.
"not a need". Need should not come into it, this a favourite term of the disarmament focused authorities, once a person has been issued with a shooters license, it doesn't matter what type of firearm or what their particular need is, and the statistics support my statement.

"Maybe 0.1% shooters would really use it." I take it this is a hypothetical figure, there have been many examples quoted in this thread that show the practical uses for a semi auto, and again, also clearly proven by the statistics, once a person has been issued with a shooters license, it doesn't matter what type of firearm they possess.

"the possibility is larger for more damage if it went into wrong hands." a hypothetical, if, but and maybe statement, also a favourite angle used by the anti gun proponents, that is not supported by statistical evidence, we will never regain any lost conditions if we support this type of illogical argument, a motor vehicle and or other objects also could be, and do cause damage when in the wrong hands, but we do not see the sam ban it logic applied to them.
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Re: Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Post by magnum56 » 17 Jun 2018, 9:21 pm

I’m in Sydney. Unfortunately I don’t know anyone with a farm who can vouch for my genuine reason.

After all the BS we have been though with gun regulations - if you can legally get a semi auto 22, why not take it up? It’s your right to do so.[/quote]

And as a licensed shooter, there is no practical reason why you should not have one, except for the ulterior motives of dishonest politicians.
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Re: Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Post by bladeracer » 18 Jun 2018, 12:06 am

bullzeye wrote:Do you mind if I ask how big your property is?

It seems you could get access to this hard to justify Cat C license category, which many of us never could.

I’d do it if I was you. The fees wouldn’t be much. Once you are a ‘primary producer’ there are no other requirements you need to hold this license.

Cat A/B is nothing special. Us city people can get this category from a hunting club by attending 2 ‘meets’ per year to justify the license.

I’d say you’re better off owning 1 rimfire semi-auto than none.

If it’s just a little bit more paperwork and waiting - and a couple bucks - why not?

Plus when you walk into the gun store to buy ammo and they see Cat A, B and C you look extra cool ;)

Maybe if more people had these licenses and firearms with no damage being caused - more of us could get them!


Sixty-five acres currently.
As I said, I quite likely could get Cat C, I just don't see any value in doing so. I already have the required security system so that's not an issue. As a kid I had a Ruger 10/22, a Winchester Model 190, two Stirling Model 20 semi-auto rimfire rifles, and a Bentley 8-shot 20" 12-gauge pump - all now Cat C firearms because of the harm they do to our society. I poured tens of thousands of rounds through them and frankly I just don't miss them nowadays. I will probably get a 10/22 if and when we move to Primary Producer status, but in Cat C I would probably find a pump shotgun to be more useful than another .22.

Your last point is a good one though so I will investigate going ahead with Cat C for that reason alone. Does anybody know if it's possible to hold a Cat C licence without having to actually own a Cat C firearm?
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Re: Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Post by bladeracer » 18 Jun 2018, 12:11 am

bullzeye wrote:I’m in Sydney. Unfortunately I don’t know anyone with a farm who can vouch for my genuine reason.

After all the BS we have been though with gun regulations - if you can legally get a semi auto 22, why not take it up? It’s your right to do so.


In NSW you can't use the fact that you have access to public land as your genuine reason?
Here in Vic that's all we need, no club membership, or property letters required to own Cat A/B, just an interest in hunting on crown land.
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Re: Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Post by bladeracer » 18 Jun 2018, 12:23 am

sungazer wrote:if I were to choose it would be semi auto over sound moderator any day of the week. I really dont see a benefit of the Suppressors imho they are not great for the rifle or for accuracy. Much more fun to be had with the semi.


In a choice between the two, for myself, I'd go with suppressors. But I think for the overall shooting community, getting semi-autos back is probably a more important move forward. But I haven't lived in the UK, Europe or NZ where suppressors are easily obtained. Here, even if you could qualify, the local manufacturers are looking at $1000 or more for a suppressor, I can't see them being bought by everybody at those prices. In NZ you can buy suppressors from NZ$40, in the UK from £40, so even somebody that might never actually use it could still viably buy a suppressor, just in case.
https://www.guncity.com/firearm-accessories/silencers?sort=price1%20asc
https://www.sportsmanguncentre.co.uk/guns-and-moderators/moderators/rimfire-moderators/sort-by/price/sort-direction/asc

That's news to me about suppressors detracting from accuracy though, never heard of that before.
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Re: Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Post by Ziad » 18 Jun 2018, 6:14 am

I get your point magnum56, I suppose my mind is still in the general public mindset. I suppose my second point was moe related to currently crims only use handguns and rifles, I haven't heard of semi being used anywhere, if they are easily obtainable than there IS a chance they canbe stolen and used, thus results in larger damage. I don't think the mentality he is of solving issues by taking the gun to school/work and shooting them, so that's not a concern 4 me.

1k for suppressors, aussie tax. I think they are expensive in us as well.... maybe it's the better built ones that are expensive, and the oil filter type that are$40. From my research only the cheaper ones change POI and accuracy.

And you only need to goto a range once to realize how much benefit suppressors would be. I walk through the car park and need to put my fingers in ears if I forget my hearing protection. Even hunters I reckon would benefit if shooting with complaining neighbors. My wife can tell when I shoot 22wmr as compared to 22lr (which she can't hear).
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Re: Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Post by sungazer » 18 Jun 2018, 9:50 am

Have a think about how important having a perfect crown is. That pressure wave that surrounds the barrel and projectile is quite important to be round and consistent from shot to shot. Muzzle breaks and suppressors both change the pressure wave in shape and qty and shot to shot. The difference in accuracy will vary on each and every device how it is made and it may not be huge but it is there.
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Re: Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Post by bladeracer » 18 Jun 2018, 10:36 am

sungazer wrote:Have a think about how important having a perfect crown is. That pressure wave that surrounds the barrel and projectile is quite important to be round and consistent from shot to shot. Muzzle breaks and suppressors both change the pressure wave in shape and qty and shot to shot. The difference in accuracy will vary on each and every device how it is made and it may not be huge but it is there.


Point of impact can certainly be affected by hanging anything on the barrel, I just haven't seen anybody complaining about lost accuracy from suppressors.
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Re: Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Post by magnum56 » 18 Jun 2018, 11:20 am

Ziad wrote:I get your point magnum56, I suppose my mind is still in the general public mindset. I suppose my second point was moe related to currently crims only use handguns and rifles, I haven't heard of semi being used anywhere, if they are easily obtainable than there IS a chance they canbe stolen and used, thus results in larger damage. I don't think the mentality he is of solving issues by taking the gun to school/work and shooting them, so that's not a concern 4 me.
.


Mate, that is a very good description, "the general public mindset," and a very easy mindset to take up, given the massive amount of bias and misinformation being put out by the anti gun politicians, media and others, their campaign is based on their need to see us disarmed, as such they use sound good, emotional, fact void rhetoric.

In relation to firearms being stolen and being subsequently used in a crime, here are some more facts, in 2016 there were around 2,890,000 registered firearms in Australia, in 2016 there were around 816,000 licensed shooters in Australia, approximately 1,600 firearms are stolen annually, which equates to 0.05% of the 2,890,000 registered firearms, of the 1,600, 0.08% or 12.8 firearms have subsequently been found to be used in a crime.


There was an incident a while back where a large number of Glock handguns were sent by post to Australia, they were intercepted at a post office in Sydney and were destined for the criminal market, less than 3% of containers coming to Australia are checked and our borders are extremely porous, the lack of security and checking at out ports is amazing, I know people who legally import firearm parts through the mail, the packages are clearly marked as such, yet they are rarely checked or questioned as to the legality, it is very easy for criminals to get their hands on firearms, without having to rely on stealing from LFO's, generally long arms are not the preferred choice of criminals, handguns are much easier to conceal.

Another point worth noting relating to firearms in the hands of LFO's is, in 1979, there were 685 deaths as a result of a firearm, this rate has been in steady decline to 2016, where there were 211 deaths as a result of a firearm, this reduction despite the fact that there are now many more legally owned firearms in the hands of licensed shooters, which shows we are not the cause of gun crime.

I hope the information above helps clear up some of your concerns, as I said, the anti's are winning the information battle, mainly because of the, "might happen", type of scare tactics and other emotional sound good misinformation they like to spread, and the fact the media rely on this sensational scary rhetoric to sell their products.

I realise there are many new shooters coming on board, which is great to see, so before we can hope to educate the general public on the facts, we probably should start within our own ranks, to this end I am going to put up a post in this section in another thread, which might provide some basic information on firearm laws and what we would like to see changed and the reasoning behind these wishes.
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Re: Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Post by bullzeye » 18 Jun 2018, 2:28 pm

bladeracer wrote:
bullzeye wrote:Do you mind if I ask how big your property is?

It seems you could get access to this hard to justify Cat C license category, which many of us never could.

I’d do it if I was you. The fees wouldn’t be much. Once you are a ‘primary producer’ there are no other requirements you need to hold this license.

Cat A/B is nothing special. Us city people can get this category from a hunting club by attending 2 ‘meets’ per year to justify the license.

I’d say you’re better off owning 1 rimfire semi-auto than none.

If it’s just a little bit more paperwork and waiting - and a couple bucks - why not?

Plus when you walk into the gun store to buy ammo and they see Cat A, B and C you look extra cool ;)

Maybe if more people had these licenses and firearms with no damage being caused - more of us could get them!


Sixty-five acres currently.
As I said, I quite likely could get Cat C, I just don't see any value in doing so. I already have the required security system so that's not an issue. As a kid I had a Ruger 10/22, a Winchester Model 190, two Stirling Model 20 semi-auto rimfire rifles, and a Bentley 8-shot 20" 12-gauge pump - all now Cat C firearms because of the harm they do to our society. I poured tens of thousands of rounds through them and frankly I just don't miss them nowadays. I will probably get a 10/22 if and when we move to Primary Producer status, but in Cat C I would probably find a pump shotgun to be more useful than another .22.

Your last point is a good one though so I will investigate going ahead with Cat C for that reason alone. Does anybody know if it's possible to hold a Cat C licence without having to actually own a Cat C firearm?


Decent amount of size you got there. Should at least be fun plinking.

Anyway, good on you - worth looking into it imo and hey doesn’t hurt to add another license category and firearm to your collection.. Would be interested to hear how it all pans out. I don’t think you are forced to submit a PTA for this license category till you are good and ready.
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Re: Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Post by Windston » 19 Jun 2018, 1:00 pm

magnum56 wrote:
Windston wrote:I just turned 18 and apart from that meaning getting my Cat A/B, it also means that I can vote. I have been looking into it, David Leyonhjelm and the Liberal Democrats seem to make some sense from what I've seen!

So if I am looking at voting for someone to support the farmers (which is my whole extended family) and for better gun laws in QLD, who should I be considering?



Consider the Queensland Shooters Fishers and Farmers Party, as well as fighting for shooters and fishers, we have been extremely active in our representation of the farming community, I am an ex farmer and QLD State Chairman, we have a strong representation of farmers in the party in Queensland, myself and one other committee member traveled to the recent tree clearing laws protest outside of parliament, and we were at Farmfest in Toowoomba for the third year running.

Jump onto our QLD SFFP Facebook page and you will see from our posts that we are proactive in highlighting farming issues, I can say with confidence our representation of the QLD farming community is genuine and committed, I see your considering the LDP, without knocking them or starting and us and them debate, the SFFP overall are far more committed to and in touch with farmers and the issues effecting them.

We are currently offering a $10 membership deal, which was taken up by farmers at Farmfest and other events we attend, the more members we can attract, the more we are able to achieve, you and members of your family and friends would be most welcome to join up if you so choose, if you require further information, do not hesitate to ask or alternatively you can contact me on cwheatley@sff.net.au


Ok mate awesome! I will look into that. We are actually farmers in the Toowoomba region, so dad was actually at Farmfest. I didnt go this year unfortunately.
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Re: Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Post by Archie » 19 Jun 2018, 1:55 pm

bladeracer wrote:
bullzeye wrote:I’m in Sydney. Unfortunately I don’t know anyone with a farm who can vouch for my genuine reason.

After all the BS we have been though with gun regulations - if you can legally get a semi auto 22, why not take it up? It’s your right to do so.


In NSW you can't use the fact that you have access to public land as your genuine reason?
Here in Vic that's all we need, no club membership, or property letters required to own Cat A/B, just an interest in hunting on crown land.


For Cat C, doubtful. Cat A and B... in theory? Where it gets tricky is:

- In theory, you need an R licence to prove you have public access
- I have been told by an assessor (but not seen it in writing) that you can't get firearms rated R-licence unless you have a firearm licence
- So... if you need to prove public access to get your firearm licence you're in a bit of bind. Thats why so many people end up joining SSAA - it's easy.

Not saying it can't be done... but would be interested to know if anyone in NSW has used that as their justification of genuine reason.
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Re: Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Post by sungazer » 19 Jun 2018, 2:37 pm

Thats the way the SSAA like it
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Re: Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Post by magnum56 » 19 Jun 2018, 9:28 pm

Archie wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
bullzeye wrote:I’m in Sydney. Unfortunately I don’t know anyone with a farm who can vouch for my genuine reason.

After all the BS we have been though with gun regulations - if you can legally get a semi auto 22, why not take it up? It’s your right to do so.


In NSW you can't use the fact that you have access to public land as your genuine reason?
Here in Vic that's all we need, no club membership, or property letters required to own Cat A/B, just an interest in hunting on crown land.


For Cat C, doubtful. Cat A and B... in theory? Where it gets tricky is:

- In theory, you need an R licence to prove you have public access
- I have been told by an assessor (but not seen it in writing) that you can't get firearms rated R-licence unless you have a firearm licence
- So... if you need to prove public access to get your firearm licence you're in a bit of bind. Thats why so many people end up joining SSAA - it's easy.

Not saying it can't be done... but would be interested to know if anyone in NSW has used that as their justification of genuine reason.


Not sure if it is available in NSW, but Shooters Union membership provides a genuine reason in Queensland, and at $35, is a lot cheaper.
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