"Guns in the car"

Questions about Victorian gun and ammunition laws. Victorian Firearms Act 1996.

"Guns in the car"

Post by Lorgar » 07 Jan 2014, 7:42 pm

I'm sharing this as it's come up a few times in other topics re: firearms being stolen while travelling. For those who are interested...

The following notes were prepared by the SSAA to assist the barrister in a case where firearms were stolen from a locked car.
They will prove interesting reading to our members as we all at some points leave firearms in the car.


This case has at its origin the assertion by the police that the accused breached the requirements of the Firearms Act 1996 regarding the storage of firearms (Part 6, Cl.121, Schedule 4).

We content that this is not the case since the intent of the Act and the issuing of a firearms license requires the nomination of an address where the firearms are to be stored, this storage usually applies to the owner's place of residence, not any place in transit or visitation.

The Firearms Act 1996 refers to two other states of a firearm (Part 6 Cl. 121 and Part 7 Cl.126), these are "carriage" and "use".

Now it is suggested that "use", whilst not defined by the Act, is quite clearly pertaining to a firearm being on a firing range where it is actually being fired or pre or post firing, or being 'in the hand' for the purpose of field hunting or pet destruction or in any number of several states of field hunting readiness.

"carriage" of a firearm is defined, 'as the state of carriage as a whole of parts by one or more persons', but it is fair to say that it spans the state between "Storage" and "Use". Thus any time when the firearm is in transit, being carried in a conveyance or vehicle, or by an individual other than when the firearm is 'in use', the firearm is in a state of "carriage". We would contend that it was during the "carriage" phase that Mr. X's firearm was stolen. Mr X was travelling or in transit and staying with friends when the incident occurred.

We suggest that if Mr X. were to be charged with any misdemeanours then such a charge would relate to "carriage". We suggest that when a firearms owner is travelling or en-route he/she must be able to rely on the security of the vehicle as adequate. Again, during "carriage and use" the Act states that the firearm owner 'must take reasonable precautions to ensure the firearm is not lost or stolen' (Part 7, Cl. 126).

Now, by any yardstick a motor vehicle must be seen as secure (when locked and provided the firearm is not in view). If the owner has the key it could be reasonably argued that a motor vehicle, regardless of where or when it is located, actually meets the requirements of "storage" requirements of the Act, it being constructed of steel that is not easily penetrated and weighing more than 150 kilograms. It is also locked with a lock of sturdy construction and many are fitted with an effective alarm system.

When a firearms owner is travelling, the issue of overnight security can arise. The owner is not at his own place of residence, we consider the storage clause does not apply, and, most will prefer to leave their firearms in a locked vehicle. It is quite unsound to take the firearm into a private residence or a hotel/motel where there is no safe or other security, and/or the property owners may be unwilling to store the firearms, they may also not be licensed and children could have access to the firearms.

There is also the consideration that the state or Mr. X's firearm was 'carriage' not 'storage' and that in his travelling circumstances leaving the firearm in a locked vehicle provided the best security available. In Mr. X's friend's private residence, the firearm would not have been locked up and unlicensed persons and children could have had access.

We further submit Mr. X should not be charged, with any offence under the Firearms Act 1996.

C. F. Wood
3rd April 2013
SSAA Victoria
Att. Firearms Act extracts.
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Re: "Guns in the car"

Post by Baldrick314 » 07 Jan 2014, 9:18 pm

Any news on the outcome of the case?

When I did my safety course to get my rifle licence the trainer said storing firearms in the boot of your car was sufficient storage when travelling. Hardly gospel I know but you expect these guys to know what they're talking about
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Re: "Guns in the car"

Post by 5Tom » 08 Jan 2014, 12:29 am

To my understanding, the transportation of firearms must only be from Point A (ie the firearms place of residence) to Point B (intended destination for Firearm use) and back to Point A again.

It is illegal to have your vehicle as "Permanent Storage" for firearms and you can't store your firearms (during transit) while your driving to multiple destinations which do not require the use of the firearm.

As long as the Firearm is bagged, highly concealed with no public access or knowledge about the firearm (during the transit stage) - There would be no worries.

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Re: "Guns in the car"

Post by AusC » 08 Jan 2014, 7:48 am

5Tom wrote:To my understanding, the transportation of firearms must only be from Point A (ie the firearms place of residence) to Point B (intended destination for Firearm use) and back to Point A again.


You'd have to be able to argue exceptions for that though, e.g. if you're on a X hour long drive and need a bathroom you'd have to go via somewhere else.

5Tom wrote:It is illegal to have your vehicle as "Permanent Storage" for firearms and you can't store your firearms (during transit) while your driving to multiple destinations which do not require the use of the firearm.


Then you'd be arguing the definition of "permanent". It would be very easy to argue/demonstrate that driving around for a day or two isn't 'permanent' constitutes permanent.

This is where you get into muddy waters with this stuff. Like with the bathroom example, you're not supposed to leave a rifle unattended in your car, but then in other parts of the act there is wording which suggests you can't carry anything that can be identified as a rifle around in public.

I'm not saying the information you've posted is inaccurate, but this stuff is so open to interpretation and for more than one setting you can pick different parts of the Act to suit your purpose. :?
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Re: "Guns in the car"

Post by creet » 08 Jan 2014, 8:44 am

Baldrick314 wrote:Any news on the outcome of the case?


I'd like to know too.

I've read the latest couple of mags cover to cover and didn't see a follow up?
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Re: "Guns in the car"

Post by 5Tom » 08 Jan 2014, 9:52 am

You'd have to be able to argue exceptions for that though, e.g. if you're on a X hour long drive and need a bathroom you'd have to go via somewhere else.


You would still be going from Point A (hunting location) to Point B (home). My understanding is if you decide to take a detour that was not a planned segment of your trip for sight seeing or visiting friends where there is no relevance to your firearms, that can be deemed illegal.

5Tom wrote:It is illegal to have your vehicle as "Permanent Storage" for firearms and you can't store your firearms (during transit) while your driving to multiple destinations which do not require the use of the firearm.


Then you'd be arguing the definition of "permanent". It would be very easy to argue/demonstrate that driving around for a day or two isn't 'permanent' constitutes permanent.

Thing is, your still mobile and in between destinations. It can be argued against that your firearms are not kept in the vehicle "all the time", which represents "Permanent". Granted that unattended firearms is highly frowned upon by the police, the fact that if you make the effort to conceal your firearm from the public and store them in the boot of the vehicle or in a locked box in the back of the ute, shows that you have taken the correct responsibilities of firearm ownership. Leaving the rifle in a bag, dropped behind the back seat is, IMO, not very concealed.
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Re: "Guns in the car"

Post by lole » 08 Jan 2014, 12:53 pm

5Tom wrote:You would still be going from Point A (hunting location) to Point B (home). My understanding is if you decide to take a detour that was not a planned segment of your trip for sight seeing or visiting friends where there is no relevance to your firearms, that can be deemed illegal.


We're getting into murky waters here though as to what constitutes a "detour".

Say you've got the optimum route from shooting range to home, how far off that route can you go before it's considered a detour?

What if the closes public bathroom is 1km off? 5km? 10km?

What if you're from home (A) going camping/hunter at point (B) and need to pick up a friend? Or go via the shops for supplies? Neither of those are "directly " from A to B.

Then what about if you "plan" to go the shops on the way to camping, instead of deciding last minute.

I'm being picky I know, but all this stuff is way too open to poor interpretation or bias IMO.

As long as you've been using it, or are going to use it, I don't see what the big deal is in having the rifle locked in the boot of your car for an extra hour or whatever while you do what you need to do.

Just my 2c.
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