What's The Difference?

Questions about New South Wales gun and ammunition laws. NSW Firearms Act 1996.

What's The Difference?

Post by Keith » 14 Jul 2018, 9:29 am

When I am camping I keep my gun under the shelter, when I am hunting & need to take a pee I place the gun somewhere where it won't fall. But if I am at home, my gun has to be locked in the gun safe. Why? What is the difference?
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Re: What's The Difference?

Post by Metalmik84 » 14 Jul 2018, 9:47 am

My firearms while camping would either be locked in my car or within arms reach. Same when taking a pee.
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Re: What's The Difference?

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 14 Jul 2018, 10:06 am

That's what I remember they saying in my safety course. Keep it locked or within arms reach. Also all home you can do the same, have it locked in a safe or within arms reach while cleaning or carrying from the car
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Re: What's The Difference?

Post by Gaznazdiak » 14 Jul 2018, 11:26 am

Just a guess here from what I imagine would be "Nanny's" point of view Keith, but I would think the difference is that when you are in the field with a gun, you have most likely taken it with you to use it.
When you are at home, the place you store it, it is supposed to be secured until you take it into the field, or work on it for cleaning or maintenance.
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Re: What's The Difference?

Post by Keith » 14 Jul 2018, 11:42 am

Metalmik84 wrote:My firearms while camping would either be locked in my car or within arms reach. Same when taking a pee.


Yes, but why is it different? You are not likely to be taking your gun to the toilet in your home!
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Re: What's The Difference?

Post by Keith » 14 Jul 2018, 11:46 am

Ziad wrote:That's what I remember they saying in my safety course. Keep it locked or within arms reach. Also all home you can do the same, have it locked in a safe or within arms reach while cleaning or carrying from the car


That is not the same, out bush I am not cleaning my gun 24/7, & at home I am not legally allowed to keep the gun by my bed at night or even carry it around the house! So "WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE"?
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Re: What's The Difference?

Post by Keith » 14 Jul 2018, 11:49 am

Gaznazdiak wrote:Just a guess here from what I imagine would be "Nanny's" point of view Keith, but I would think the difference is that when you are in the field with a gun, you have most likely taken it with you to use it.
When you are at home, the place you store it, it is supposed to be secured until you take it into the field, or work on it for cleaning or maintenance.


So I am allowed to lean my gun against a tree out bush, but I am not allowed to stand my gun in the corner of a room in my house. Seems to me that this does not answer the question as to WHY?
Keith.
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Re: What's The Difference?

Post by bladeracer » 14 Jul 2018, 12:30 pm

Keith wrote:When I am camping I keep my gun under the shelter, when I am hunting & need to take a pee I place the gun somewhere where it won't fall. But if I am at home, my gun has to be locked in the gun safe. Why? What is the difference?
Keith.


The difference is that you are at home, where you probably aren't actually focused on your firearms.
But it boils down to, simply that somebody decided that when we have our firearms at home we are required to lock them away.
If you prefer to stand them in the corner then do so, but you will face serious problems if you ever have a break-in, or a child finds it. It just makes sense to comply with the law when the risk is losing your licence and your firearms.
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Re: What's The Difference?

Post by Keith » 14 Jul 2018, 12:59 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Keith wrote:When I am camping I keep my gun under the shelter, when I am hunting & need to take a pee I place the gun somewhere where it won't fall. But if I am at home, my gun has to be locked in the gun safe. Why? What is the difference?
Keith.


The difference is that you are at home, where you probably aren't actually focused on your firearms.
But it boils down to, simply that somebody decided that when we have our firearms at home we are required to lock them away.
If you prefer to stand them in the corner then do so, but you will face serious problems if you ever have a break-in, or a child finds it. It just makes sense to comply with the law when the risk is losing your licence and your firearms.


I would not leave the gun untended in the corner of the room at night, it would be close to hand in the bedroom or locked in the gun safe. I am not suggesting anyone breaks the law, I am simply trying to understand WHY the laws are different for in the bush to being at home. I have a safe room with locks on the main door & a security door, no one can just walk in there & certainly no child can get access. I understand the need to lock the gun away when I am not present, but if I don't have to do this when in the bush, why do I have to do it in my home when I am in control of that gun.
Basically it seems to me that the government simply has not thought about this & so it is the way it is. No real thought, no sensible thought. Just a law made off the top of someone's head. Not good enough.
Yesterday I heard a dog barking. By the time I had gained access to the gun safe & the ammo safe the dog had plenty of time to do damage. This is simply not good enough & it makes no sense to me.
Keith.
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the one less travelled by,
and that has made all the difference.
Robert Frost.
http://woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com/
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Re: What's The Difference?

Post by Nigel » 14 Jul 2018, 1:14 pm

Keith wrote:But if I am at home, my gun has to be locked in the gun safe. Why? What is the difference?

Your gun doesn't have to be locked away whenever you are at home, only when it "is not actually being used or carried". If you are, for example, cleaning it, doing dry fire practice or just admiring it, it is "being used" and therefore is not required to be in a safe.

As to why, this was a public policy decision. Most firearms are not in use the majority of the time. The powers that be decided that they would require firearms to be locked away during this time to reduce the opportunity for theft and accidents.

I think some of the details of the rule and the nature of enforcement are sometimes a bit over the top but the basic idea does bring some benefits. It does reduce the likelihood of theft of legally owned firearms and their subsequent use by criminals. It does reduce the likelihood of accidents resulting from handling by unauthorised people, including children. These types of incidents result in increased public pressure to further regulate and restrict possession use of firearms. Storage laws, whilst sometimes annoying, do therefore bring some benefits to all of us.
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Re: What's The Difference?

Post by Blutius Maximus » 14 Jul 2018, 1:16 pm

Which argument are you trying to make?
That firearms shouldn't be locked in a safe while not in use at home, or that we should all transport gun safes into the bush?

It boils down to what is practical given the circumstances.
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Re: What's The Difference?

Post by Keith » 14 Jul 2018, 1:48 pm

Jäger wrote:Which argument are you trying to make?
That firearms shouldn't be locked in a safe while not in use at home, or that we should all transport gun safes into the bush?

It boils down to what is practical given the circumstances.


No it doesn't, the law is NOT practicle. On the last firearms inspection the police officer saw a wooden toy gun I had made for my sons many years ago sitting on my desk in my gun room. He told me it was an offence not to have this wooden gun locked in the safe & if any member of the public were to complain (not that they could see it in my gun room anyway), then I could be charged with an offence. Now this is absolute bulls**t anyway, but let's assume that this was a gun I had out for cleaning at the time this officer visited, would the same apply? I think that the original question I posed here was very reasonable & sensible, I am just trying to make sense of this law. It matters to me because there have been times when I needed quick access to a gun in order to save stock from feral dogs. This law does NOT cater to a farmer's/land owner's needs.
Keith.
No need to answer this, I think I know where I stand now but still do not think that this law is in all respects sensible.
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the one less travelled by,
and that has made all the difference.
Robert Frost.
http://woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com/
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Re: What's The Difference?

Post by Oldbloke » 14 Jul 2018, 2:51 pm

Lol. Didn't you know the law is an ASS
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Re: What's The Difference?

Post by bladeracer » 14 Jul 2018, 3:01 pm

Keith wrote:
Jäger wrote:Which argument are you trying to make?
That firearms shouldn't be locked in a safe while not in use at home, or that we should all transport gun safes into the bush?

It boils down to what is practical given the circumstances.


No it doesn't, the law is NOT practicle. On the last firearms inspection the police officer saw a wooden toy gun I had made for my sons many years ago sitting on my desk in my gun room. He told me it was an offence not to have this wooden gun locked in the safe & if any member of the public were to complain (not that they could see it in my gun room anyway), then I could be charged with an offence. Now this is absolute bulls**t anyway, but let's assume that this was a gun I had out for cleaning at the time this officer visited, would the same apply? I think that the original question I posed here was very reasonable & sensible, I am just trying to make sense of this law. It matters to me because there have been times when I needed quick access to a gun in order to save stock from feral dogs. This law does NOT cater to a farmer's/land owner's needs.
Keith.
No need to answer this, I think I know where I stand now but still do not think that this law is in all respects sensible.


You're lucky you didn't paint your wooden toy black!
Very little in our firearms laws make any kind of sense, but there is no arguing with them.
All we can do is support those that are trying to have them fixed.
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Re: What's The Difference?

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 14 Jul 2018, 4:06 pm

Mate law is law, its almost never black and white and written by people who make it to fix a precieved problem, most of the times the intricacies arenot actually thought through fully Unfortunately these ppl are voted by a majority that have no fk idea what's actually happening. But it is something that you, I and all law abiding ppl have to live their lives with. No choice about it. It's not fair as toy cannot have a arty of rules that are fair for everyone.

Let me give you a couple examples outside of firearms. Immigration, many of you will say we have to much immigration and all these immigrants are taking up our houses and driving prices higher. So along other things there is an English language test so atleast we can understand them.

The other side, think of all the Greeks and Italians who came here, many of the older ones still cannot speak English well, some that can, have really thick accents who would 100% fail the current English language test. Then compare another case I knew where an Irish doctor failed the spoken language component cuz her accent was really hard to understand. Not really fair is it.

A positive for this immigration housing issue, if it wasn't for the immigration levels many hundred of thousands of trades people would be outof a job.

I could give you a million examples where law is not fair... but it's a loose that the whole society abides by. You don't like it talk to your MP raise your voice to change it.

Going back to your issue, If it's a big of an issue, get two safes with number pads, it would take you two minutes max to open them and put a loaded mag in the gun
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Re: What's The Difference?

Post by Gaznazdiak » 14 Jul 2018, 4:12 pm

Another reason, probably the most logical, how are you going to "lock it up" when you are in the field anyway? You can't carry a safe around and bolt it to a tree every time you need to put your gun down, can you?

It simply means that in a situation where it is possible to secure a firearm not in actual use, you should do so. When you are in a situation where you can't secure it, ie in the field, you can't and take appropriate precautions.
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Re: What's The Difference?

Post by doc » 16 Jul 2018, 1:17 pm

To me the answer is simple. The government expects that the firearm is to be stored in a manner as securely as practically possible at all times when it is not in use. What's practical at home isn't as practical whilst away.

They have (thankfully) used a little bit of common sense - understanding that whilst traveling, camping, etc it is impractical to have the same rules as at the premises where they reside and given some leniency.

The alternative would be for them to require a safe at least 150kg or bolted to your car for the firearms to be stored in which none of us want to see...

As for having a pee, etc - there is a difference between when you are using your firearm (be that shooting, cleaning, etc) - and storing your firearm.

If you have your firearm with you whilst having a leak whilst hiking - you're still in possession - and you are in contact with it. (Visually). When you don't (ie, cooking up dinner) - it should be stored as securely as practically possible.

And remember - the security is up to you. You won't be fined for having it camping if it's stored as securely as possible- but if it ends up being stolen while your camping whilst being stored as securely as possible- that's evidence enough that you didn't have it stored securely enough and you can be charged.

Same at home when cleaning it, etc - once you choose to do another activity for the evening - you're no longer using your firearm at which time it needs to be stored in the safe. If it gets stolen from your house while it's outside of your safe (aka while you're having a leak half way through cleaning) - you're going to have a lot to answer for and would most likely be charged. The onus is back on you to handle your firearms responsibly enough whilst out of the safe to ensure they are not stolen. If it gets stolen whilst in your safe at home and secured as per the regulations - you've got a much better chance of not being charged.

If you're upset with the laws the way they are, I'm sure that there's some bureaucrat that would be more than happy to accommodate you and raise the requirements for storing a firearm whilst traveling and camping tot he same as being at home because I guarantee you - they won't go the other way.
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Re: What's The Difference?

Post by bladeracer » 16 Jul 2018, 1:50 pm

In Victoria they specify that you must lock your vehicle up if you go more than three-meters from it, or out of sight. Not firearm-specific, but might be a useful comparison.
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