Even When They Get It Right

[Gaznazdiak]

Even when Nanny gets a law right she can't help but go overboard.
The political knee jerks so hard it's a wonder it doesn't snap.

Calls for tougher laws as Australian authorities brace for 'the age of the downloadable gun'
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-01/3 ... g/10059704

[Archie]

Don't know about you but I don't want to be standing next to the guy who pulls the trigger on a 3d printed polymer firearm in anything much bigger than a .22.

[Gaznazdiak]

Don't know about you but I don't want to be standing next to the guy who pulls the trigger on a 3d printed polymer firearm in anything much bigger than a .22.

Me either. That's the right part.
The fact that they are making it an offence carrying up to 14yrs for having what is basically a drawing, or even access to that drawing on the cloud is where they go over the top. As usual.

I'm not quite dumb enough to try it even if I had a 3D printer, but I am interested enough in guns to want to see the plans etc, but that simple, innocent interest could end with me as Bubba's new bitch.

[Blutius Maximus]

In possession of prohibited knowledge.
What a time to be alive.

[tofu]

Don't know about you but I don't want to be standing next to the guy who pulls the trigger on a 3d printed polymer firearm in anything much bigger than a .22.

Me either. That's the right part.
The fact that they are making it an offence carrying up to 14yrs for having what is basically a drawing, or even access to that drawing on the cloud is where they go over the top. As usual.

I'm not quite dumb enough to try it even if I had a 3D printer, but I am interested enough in guns to want to see the plans etc, but that simple, innocent interest could end with me as Bubba's new bitch.

i think its more about the fact that it would be too difficult to police. if it was on the cloud for everyone and anyone to access, it could be quite dangerous. you may not print the gun or you may but not ever shoot it...who knows what everyone else would do.

[Daddybang]

So is it illegal to own a book on gunsmithing with diagrams of firearms in it?

[Gaznazdiak]

So is it illegal to own a book on gunsmithing with diagrams of firearms in it?

I first discovered that we were living in a book banning country back in the early 80s when I tried to import the "Black Medicine" series of books.

One of the martial arts I was learning at the time included what they called poison hand technique, can't remember the Japanese term not that it's relevant, which involved a study of anatomy focused on the most vulnerable parts on the body including accupressure and accupuncture points.
Black Medicine covers all these and the most effective forms of attack for each. It was truly amazing to discover you could shut down someone's breathing or even cause cardiac arrest with a properly placed strike from your thumb.

Nanny ended up shutting the whole show down because we were also learning knife, baton and stick techniques including Kendo.

Nanny has a long memory too, when I struck more trouble trying to import some grivory training knives about 12yrs ago I was told that was strike 2, any more attempts would attract a 6 figure fine and time with the aforementioned Bubba.

[tofu]

So is it illegal to own a book on gunsmithing with diagrams of firearms in it?

dont mistake this for arguing because im all for guns but...

if you gave someone your gun smith book and they used it to make a working firearm and they point the finger at you when they are in trouble, you will likely be charged.

also, its about availability of materials. with a 3d printed firearm, you could go to aldi and pick up a 3d printer and the plastic. with a gun smith book, you'll still need to get all the materials which is harder to get.

[Gaznazdiak]

So is it illegal to own a book on gunsmithing with diagrams of firearms in it?

dont mistake this for arguing because im all for guns but...

if you gave someone your gun smith book and they used it to make a working firearm and they point the finger at you when they are in trouble, you will likely be charged.

also, its about availability of materials. with a 3d printed firearm, you could go to aldi and pick up a 3d printer and the plastic. with a gun smith book, you'll still need to get all the materials which is harder to get.

Not quite right.
Gunsmithing books are readily available, and legal to buy and own.

https://www.gungods.net/five-of-the-bes ... nsmithing/

[tofu]

So is it illegal to own a book on gunsmithing with diagrams of firearms in it?

dont mistake this for arguing because im all for guns but...

if you gave someone your gun smith book and they used it to make a working firearm and they point the finger at you when they are in trouble, you will likely be charged.

also, its about availability of materials. with a 3d printed firearm, you could go to aldi and pick up a 3d printer and the plastic. with a gun smith book, you'll still need to get all the materials which is harder to get.

Not quite right.
Gunsmithing books are readily available, and legal to buy and own.

https://www.gungods.net/five-of-the-bes ... nsmithing/

yes but what im saying is if you provide someone that book and go they go and make a firearm illegally then its a problem. same as if you were to make one illegally.

[Wombat]

also, its about availability of materials. with a 3d printed firearm, you could go to aldi and pick up a 3d printer and the plastic. with a gun smith book, you'll still need to get all the materials which is harder to get.

You could make a working slam fire shotgun with some pipe and fittings from Bunnings and a screw for a firing pin. I reckon if you took more than five minutes to source the parts its because it wasn't your local Bunnings.
Of course you would need the extensive tooling of a drill and bit.

[Daddybang]

also, its about availability of materials. with a 3d printed firearm, you could go to aldi and pick up a 3d printer and the plastic. with a gun smith book, you'll still need to get all the materials which is harder to get.

You could make a working slam fire shotgun with some pipe and fittings from Bunnings and a screw for a firing pin. I reckon if you took more than five minutes to source the parts its because it wasn't your local Bunnings.
Of course you would need the extensive tooling of a drill and bit.

Yep some of the throw together firearms that I saw brought back to Darwin from East Timor were pretty wild.

[Gaznazdiak]

So is it illegal to own a book on gunsmithing with diagrams of firearms in it?

dont mistake this for arguing because im all for guns but...

if you gave someone your gun smith book and they used it to make a working firearm and they point the finger at you when they are in trouble, you will likely be charged.

also, its about availability of materials. with a 3d printed firearm, you could go to aldi and pick up a 3d printer and the plastic. with a gun smith book, you'll still need to get all the materials which is harder to get.

Not quite right.
Gunsmithing books are readily available, and legal to buy and own.

https://www.gungods.net/five-of-the-bes ... nsmithing/

yes but what im saying is if you provide someone that book and go they go and make a firearm illegally then its a problem. same as if you were to make one illegally.

If that was the case then the vendors selling the books would also be liable if a customer made a firearm based on the book they bought. They aren't, and by extension neither is the lender. You would simply maintain it was sold/lent for informational purposes only. What the buyer/borrower does without your knowledge is not your responsibility.

If, however, you supplied both the book and the necessary materials that's a different scenario.

[tofu]

doesnt really matter what either of us think...i've asked police officers today at work and this is what they have said...now none of us (including the officers) are lawyers so who knows

[Gaznazdiak]

doesnt really matter what either of us think...i've asked police officers today at work and this is what they have said...now none of us (including the officers) are lawyers so who knows

If that was the case, then if I bought a length of pipe at Bunnings with the intent of braining my neighbor, they would be liable for providing it wouldn't they?

Something similar was tried by the antis years ago.
They tried to sue gun manufacturers for providing weapons that were evetually used in murders, it was tossed because the vendor has no control over the use made by a buyer.

Bit of a worry when the people enforcing our laws have so little understanding of how they work though.

[Ratsmitglied]

I have 3D printer, and have to say anyone printing a 'gun' using the damn thing and expecting it not to blow up in your face is rather foolish (or, if it doesn't blow up in your face, getting any more than one shot). As Archie said, I wouldn't want to be standing next to someone using it for anything larger than a .22.

Perhaps on an industrial grade metal printer you could get something that works as expected (or more than once), but a regular home 3D printer is often printing PLA, which has a melting point between 180 and 200 degrees (depending on source), and you're also printing in layers, so effectively have a laminate for the receiver, barrel and everything else, and it is not unknown for prints to split along these layers when simply removing it from the print bed.

[Gaznazdiak]

I have 3D printer, and have to say anyone printing a 'gun' using the damn thing and expecting it not to blow up in your face is rather foolish (or, if it doesn't blow up in your face, getting any more than one shot). As Archie said, I wouldn't want to be standing next to someone using it for anything larger than a .22.

Perhaps on an industrial grade metal printer you could get something that works as expected (or more than once), but a regular home 3D printer is often printing PLA, which has a melting point between 180 and 200 degrees (depending on source), and you're also printing in layers, so effectively have a laminate for the receiver, barrel and everything else, and it is not unknown for prints to split along these layers when simply removing it from the print bed.

G'day Alderman,

That's why I think it's so stupid to put outrageous penalties on simply having the plans.

Anyone dumb enough to try to fire one they made on an Aldi home 3D printer probably should be allowed to, just to weed the d!ckheads out of the gene pool.

[Ratsmitglied]

I have 3D printer, and have to say anyone printing a 'gun' using the damn thing and expecting it not to blow up in your face is rather foolish (or, if it doesn't blow up in your face, getting any more than one shot). As Archie said, I wouldn't want to be standing next to someone using it for anything larger than a .22.

Perhaps on an industrial grade metal printer you could get something that works as expected (or more than once), but a regular home 3D printer is often printing PLA, which has a melting point between 180 and 200 degrees (depending on source), and you're also printing in layers, so effectively have a laminate for the receiver, barrel and everything else, and it is not unknown for prints to split along these layers when simply removing it from the print bed.

G'day Alderman,

That's why I think it's so stupid to put outrageous penalties on simply having the plans.

Anyone dumb enough to try to fire one they made on an Aldi home 3D printer probably should be allowed to, just to weed the d!ckheads out of the gene pool.

No argument from me on either point!

[Daddybang]

And yet.... Ya can have the ingredients+instructions for explosives and some napalm made up.(ABC news)