3 men caught spotlighting in Tallangatta VIC

Questions about Victorian gun and ammunition laws. Victorian Firearms Act 1996.

Re: 3 men caught spotlighting in Tallangatta VIC

Post by sungazer » 08 Aug 2018, 3:04 pm

In Vic you can shoot 100 m from a road. Its not really spelt out clearly in the act but there is a section that says this.
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Re: 3 men caught spotlighting in Tallangatta VIC

Post by YoungBuck » 08 Aug 2018, 6:47 pm

Heh I grew up in the area, fair chance I might know the blokes involved.
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Re: 3 men caught spotlighting in Tallangatta VIC

Post by Stix » 08 Aug 2018, 7:05 pm

Daddybang wrote:
Bruiser64 wrote:The first thing that occurs to me is what would the behaviour of someone seeking to ensure they complied with the law look like? If it was me, knowing the consequences for breaking the law, I may have a head torch on me when out deer shooting, but no way would l have a spotlight in the car. That is pretty challenging to explain away. Also, if you do happen to get caught out after dark, having shot a deer, would you not also take every precaution to secure your firearm and ammunition? For me that would mean bolt and magazine removed (where relevant) and ammunition stowed away. I have no idea of the merits or otherwise of the case against these people. What it does tell me is that a prudent law abiding hunter would do everything in their power to remove the opportunity for law enforcement to ask troubling questions about their behaviour. At the end of the day your the person facing all the stress and inconvenience of going through the court process. Better to prevent it from even starting by demonstrating that you are utterly compliant with the law.


Yep :thumbsup: :drinks:


Im glad i dont hunt under Vic law then...i cannot imagine going out during the day knowing full well ill be out at night & not have a spotlight with me to pop off foxes after sundown...'
That would feel like leaving the house without pants on or going bush with a quarter tank of juice...! :o

I hunt on a few properties where there are public roads between blocks, as im sure many of us do.
By the letter of the law, before crossing public road to enter next block i should spend 5 mins to pack everything up & lock it all away, drive down the public dirt road 100 yds then un pack everything again & load up, inadvertently missing the shot on the fox inside the next gate.

I know farmers dont pack up their firearms between blocks, as many hunters also wouldnt in these situations, & farmers would call me crazy if i told them i did that...!

So as for asking ones self what would the behaviour of someone look like whom is seeking to comply with the law look like, is a pretty generic overview us gun owners already battle against & is potentially unfair in many situations...my point is not to be argumentative, but to point out that every situation is different & should be judged fairly on its merits & based on intent using the law as a guide to arrive at sensible judgment. :D :thumbsup:
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Re: 3 men caught spotlighting in Tallangatta VIC

Post by marksman » 08 Aug 2018, 7:09 pm

not enough info to make a judgement
but I will say that if the police and gma are together they have been doing a blitz in an area that has been poached heavily

with regards to unsecured firearm it depends on if they were in deer habitat
if they were in deer habitat the firearm would be unsecured because it was in the back with a person who could easily access it
if it had been in the tray just in a bag it would have been secured by the law in deer habitat and not easily accessible,
they would not have been charged with unsecured firearm
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Re: 3 men caught spotlighting in Tallangatta VIC

Post by sungazer » 09 Aug 2018, 10:58 am

Stix there is the law for those that are going to do the wrong thing or have done the wrong thing. If you are out hunting foxes (which would most likely be on private property anyway where deer can be shot by spot light) even in deer habitat I am sure you would be ok if it was obvious that is what you were doing. The Police do get a bad rap some times, and yes they can be in a bad mood or whatever, but most of the time if you are genuine they know it and you are ok.
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Re: 3 men caught spotlighting in Tallangatta VIC

Post by marksman » 09 Aug 2018, 11:37 am

you cannot spotlight deer just because you are on private property
but you can spotlight pest deer on private property with an authorisation from the owner, you can get the authorisation permit from the dwelp offices
there are a few rules included and you must carry the permit but just because you are on private property does not mean you can spotlight deer,
in deer habitat makes no difference for spotlighting deer in vic
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Re: 3 men caught spotlighting in Tallangatta VIC

Post by sungazer » 09 Aug 2018, 12:39 pm

The act was changed a while ago
All deer species (except Hog Deer) have been declared 'unprotected' wildlife on private land by way of a Governor in Council Order under section 7A of the Act.

The Order will be in place for a period of 10 years. This means that landowners will not be required to apply for and wait to receive an ATCW in order to destroy problem deer. Importantly, problem deer may be destroyed at night under spotlight which is one of the most efficient and effective ways to control deer.
http://www.gma.vic.gov.au/research/deer ... e-property

Previously, deer causing damage on private property could only be destroyed after landowners had applied for and received an Authority to Control Wildlife (ATCW) or by using licensed deer hunters. This created an administrative burden and often delayed control. This Governor in Council (GIC) Order removes that burden, allowing landowners to destroy problem deer at their convenience.
Can landowners use spotlights to assist in the destruction of deer under this Order?

Yes. This is an efficient and effective way to destroy problem deer and is a provision that was previously allowed for landowners operating under an Authority to Control Wildlife for deer.
http://www.gma.vic.gov.au/research/deer ... y/deer-faq
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Re: 3 men caught spotlighting in Tallangatta VIC

Post by marksman » 11 Aug 2018, 9:02 pm

thanks for posting this info up sungazer
the permit I was talking about is the written permission form that you have to have on you that has to be signed and dated
anyone who wants to destroy pest deer under light should go to the links sungazer has posted and read em material properly as if you get caught spotlighting deer without taking the necessary steps you will get done, don't just think you can spotlight deer on private property :thumbsup:
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Re: 3 men caught spotlighting in Tallangatta VIC

Post by sungazer » 12 Aug 2018, 9:35 am

It was something I wasn't aware of either and I was only looking at it and in fact reading your post from the point of view of being the landholder. Shows how easily you can be blinded by what is really written and by what is in your head. Being the landowner I have not been in that position and I thought it was very similar to the Roo Cull permit which is similar as if you are the land holder or not you should have a copy of the permit on you signed by the landowner.

Some of this red tape really is silly though, I wonder how many farmers make it a habit of getting a copy of there permit every time they pick up there gun. I make sure I have a copy in the gun bag. I also have a copy of my neighbors permits but in my pocket every time not sure I am that organized all the time.
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Re: 3 men caught spotlighting in Tallangatta VIC

Post by Gwion » 12 Aug 2018, 5:41 pm

southwest shooter wrote:Good , throw the book at them .


My thoughts exactly.
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Re: 3 men caught spotlighting in Tallangatta VIC

Post by Gwion » 12 Aug 2018, 5:53 pm

Bruiser64 wrote:The first thing that occurs to me is what would the behaviour of someone seeking to ensure they complied with the law look like? If it was me, knowing the consequences for breaking the law, I may have a head torch on me when out deer shooting, but no way would l have a spotlight in the car. That is pretty challenging to explain away. Also, if you do happen to get caught out after dark, having shot a deer, would you not also take every precaution to secure your firearm and ammunition? For me that would mean bolt and magazine removed (where relevant) and ammunition stowed away. I have no idea of the merits or otherwise of the case against these people. What it does tell me is that a prudent law abiding hunter would do everything in their power to remove the opportunity for law enforcement to ask troubling questions about their behaviour. At the end of the day your the person facing all the stress and inconvenience of going through the court process. Better to prevent it from even starting by demonstrating that you are utterly compliant with the law.


Spot on.

Deer in the back seat, not the tub/tray.
Rifle unsecured.
Spotight.

Poachers giving us all a bad wrap.
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Re: 3 men caught spotlighting in Tallangatta VIC

Post by Gwion » 12 Aug 2018, 6:14 pm

I'm all for supporting people who are put under pressure even while doing the right thing. More so, I'm for standing together against people who are obviously doing the wrong thing and making all firearm owners look bad. We have a hard enough time as it is.

These guys were in an area rife with poaching. They were in a pine forrest which i believe is off limits for shooting (correct me if I'm wrong). They were on a public road with an unsecured firearm. They had a spotlight in deer habitat along with unsecured firearm.

And... the big SAMBAR in the room, or in this case, the back seat of the cab...
Come on, who the f*** does that unless they know they've done the wrong thing and are trying to hide it!???!

Lets not get messed up trying to justify people doing the wrong thing. If they were a junky caught by cops breaking into someone's shed, none of you would be saying, "but they're innocent until proven guilty!"...
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Re: 3 men caught spotlighting in Tallangatta VIC

Post by marksman » 12 Aug 2018, 7:26 pm

Gwion
I don't think anyone here is supporting poachers at all,
I particularly hate them as you say they make all of us look bad and we have enough of a hard time as it is
what I do say is that there is not enough in the report to make a determination

a) freshly shot sambar deer, dark at 5.30pm they are pulled over at 8.00pm, not enough time for rig amortise to set in so they could be right saying freshly shot between 5.30-6.00pm when it is still legal to shoot
b) the sambar was found in the back of the ute not the back seat, from what is written in the report
c) unsecured means the firearm was easily accessible so it was in the cabin with them that's all, not loaded or ready to fire, just in the cab with them even if it is in a case or bag, the firearm should have been in the back of the ute even in a bag it would not have been unsecured
d) spotlight is a real hard one, a spotlight is now defined as any source of artificial light, infrared devise, night vision or heat detection device

here is the fact sheet for all to see about possession and use of spotlights in recognised deer habitat, has a lot of other stuff deer hunters should know
http://www.gma.vic.gov.au/__data/assets ... rtwork.pdf

as I said Gwion I hate poachers but I don't think there is enough in the report to hang these guys yet :thumbsup:
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Re: 3 men caught spotlighting in Tallangatta VIC

Post by sungazer » 12 Aug 2018, 7:39 pm

The light / spot light one is really stacked against you. As it really means that you have to be back to your car or camp before dark or risk walking in the dark without a torch. A well prepared person is always going to put a torch in his backpack.
I am not standing up for the practice of illegal shooting at all. I just try to take the reporting in the context of who is doing the reporting. As in these days everything bad is exaggerated enormously to create a headline and a story.
Even the weather reports of late have been beat up to the extent of trying to create drama.
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Re: 3 men caught spotlighting in Tallangatta VIC

Post by Gaznazdiak » 12 Aug 2018, 7:56 pm

As someone who doesn't live where there are any other than farmed deer, I'm a little confused at the protection of a feral pest species.

It may be a dumbarse question, but why aren't they treated like other invasive pests?

If they were found with a dead pig in the ute they'd be praised.
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Re: 3 men caught spotlighting in Tallangatta VIC

Post by Bigjobss » 12 Aug 2018, 8:06 pm

I appreciate what you are saying marksman. I am a cynical bastard and dont take generic statements at face value as they are often used to misrepresent, give me cold hard facts and specific details instead of vague defintions.
That being said I dont support the alleged poachers, they are probably guilty and I want to know more about what happened.
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Re: 3 men caught spotlighting in Tallangatta VIC

Post by Bigjobss » 12 Aug 2018, 8:08 pm

Gaznazdiak wrote:As someone who doesn't live where there are any other than farmed deer, I'm a little confused at the protection of a feral pest species.

It may be a dumbarse question, but why aren't they treated like other invasive pests?

If they were found with a dead pig in the ute they'd be praised.


I would say these days the major issue is around the safety of spotlighting in a public space.
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Re: 3 men caught spotlighting in Tallangatta VIC

Post by Gaznazdiak » 12 Aug 2018, 8:16 pm

Bigjobss wrote:
Gaznazdiak wrote:As someone who doesn't live where there are any other than farmed deer, I'm a little confused at the protection of a feral pest species.

It may be a dumbarse question, but why aren't they treated like other invasive pests?

If they were found with a dead pig in the ute they'd be praised.


I would say these days the major issue is around the safety of spotlighting in a public space.


Oh, OK.
It's actually the spotlighting itself that's the issue, not the deer?
So, they'd have been busted even without the deer, just the spotlight and the rifle on public land after dark?
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Re: 3 men caught spotlighting in Tallangatta VIC

Post by Gwion » 12 Aug 2018, 8:19 pm

If you read the linked fact sheet, you can have a 'spotlight' in or on a vehicle as long as it is not in use. Also, a torch used for navigation is not considered a spotlight.
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Re: 3 men caught spotlighting in Tallangatta VIC

Post by marksman » 12 Aug 2018, 8:27 pm

Bigjobss wrote:I appreciate what you are saying marksman. I am a cynical bastard and dont take generic statements at face value as they are often used to misrepresent, give me cold hard facts and specific details instead of vague defintions.
That being said I dont support the alleged poachers, they are probably guilty and I want to know more about what happened.


that's all I'm saying, I don't support them either but want to know more before I throw the first stone
the report did not have cold hard facts
apart from the unsecured firearm and the spotlight that could be a small torch in the glovebox nothing else is proven :thumbsdown:

and Gaz the reason the deer are treated like they are and put on such a high pedestal is because of the deer associations not the government, dwelp or greens who would like them treated like pest animals eg.. rabbits/foxes/feral cats ect and eradicated
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Re: 3 men caught spotlighting in Tallangatta VIC

Post by marksman » 12 Aug 2018, 8:34 pm

Gwion wrote:If you read the linked fact sheet, you can have a 'spotlight' in or on a vehicle as long as it is not in use. Also, a torch used for navigation is not considered a spotlight.


not if there firearm is deemed to be unsecured :huh:
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Re: 3 men caught spotlighting in Tallangatta VIC

Post by Gaznazdiak » 12 Aug 2018, 8:43 pm

Gwion wrote:If you read the linked fact sheet, you can have a 'spotlight' in or on a vehicle as long as it is not in use. Also, a torch used for navigation is not considered a spotlight.


Don't you love it when a government dept puts out a document about what is and isn't legal, then puts a fine print disclaimer at the end saying they can't actually guarantee it's correct?
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Re: 3 men caught spotlighting in Tallangatta VIC

Post by Gwion » 12 Aug 2018, 8:51 pm

Didn't read tbe fine print! :lol:
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Re: 3 men caught spotlighting in Tallangatta VIC

Post by Bigjobss » 12 Aug 2018, 8:54 pm

Gaznazdiak wrote:
Bigjobss wrote:
Gaznazdiak wrote:As someone who doesn't live where there are any other than farmed deer, I'm a little confused at the protection of a feral pest species.

It may be a dumbarse question, but why aren't they treated like other invasive pests?

If they were found with a dead pig in the ute they'd be praised.


I would say these days the major issue is around the safety of spotlighting in a public space.


Oh, OK.
It's actually the spotlighting itself that's the issue, not the deer?
So, they'd have been busted even without the deer, just the spotlight and the rifle on public land after dark?


Yeh Sambar are pretty much considered a pest now.

EDIT:
It is slightly more complex than that because of the very recent history of Sambar being a legitimate Game species, which they kinda sorta are and arent because the species itself is a premier quarry for the most skilled of hunters but their population and public perception are changing quickly.
IMO spotlighters are still cheating dog ****s that should be spotlighted themselves, and the safety factor whilst very very valid is a close second.
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Re: 3 men caught spotlighting in Tallangatta VIC

Post by Gwion » 12 Aug 2018, 9:03 pm

marksman wrote:
Gwion wrote:If you read the linked fact sheet, you can have a 'spotlight' in or on a vehicle as long as it is not in use. Also, a torch used for navigation is not considered a spotlight.


not if there firearm is deemed to be unsecured :huh:


Ok. The way i see it, if you go out you should know the law and comply. Simple as that. Ignorance is no excuse in the eyes of the law. Some guys i shoot with stir me up about being so 'to the letter' but as i tell them, it's just not worth losing everything for a little bit of laziness or ignorance.

And, in all seriousness, we all know they were in all probability illegally spotlighting in the scenario given.
Even if they weren't illegally spotlighting and got done as described, they were breaking the law, wether they think it's too onerous to comply with or not, it falls on them to ensure they comply with all relevant laws. That's what being a Law Abiding Firearms Owner means.
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Re: 3 men caught spotlighting in Tallangatta VIC

Post by marksman » 12 Aug 2018, 9:10 pm

I agree and hope anyone who reads this and wants to hunt deer understands its not just getting a game licence
laziness or ignorance is not good enough just like poaching
the info is there
I should also say that these laws involving deer habitat are not just for deer hunters,
if you enter deer habitat you have to abide these rules/laws even if you are shooting pest animals or passing through
Last edited by marksman on 13 Aug 2018, 8:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 3 men caught spotlighting in Tallangatta VIC

Post by Gaznazdiak » 12 Aug 2018, 9:31 pm

Gwion wrote:
marksman wrote:
Gwion wrote:If you read the linked fact sheet, you can have a 'spotlight' in or on a vehicle as long as it is not in use. Also, a torch used for navigation is not considered a spotlight.


not if there firearm is deemed to be unsecured :huh:


Ok. The way i see it, if you go out you should know the law and comply. Simple as that. Ignorance is no excuse in the eyes of the law. Some guys i shoot with stir me up about being so 'to the letter' but as i tell them, it's just not worth losing everything for a little bit of laziness or ignorance.

And, in all seriousness, we all know they were in all probability illegally spotlighting in the scenario given.
Even if they weren't illegally spotlighting and got done as described, they were breaking the law, wether they think it's too onerous to comply with or not, it falls on them to ensure they comply with all relevant laws. That's what being a Law Abiding Firearms Owner means.


Well said.
A lot of people who don't know a subject well will judge by what they hear most about.
"Old Mate went shooting, obeyed all the laws and everyone got home safe" doesn't make for tabloid clickbait so what they hear trotted out is those who are breaking the rules, and we all get judged by this lowest common denominator.
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Re: 3 men caught spotlighting in Tallangatta VIC

Post by sungazer » 13 Aug 2018, 9:12 am

I didnt read the fact sheet which is pretty dumb. I was going off a leaflet that was delivered in the mail "due to living in deer habitat" some years ago when they changed the regulations at that time they quoted with the recent updates in technology and the invent of new high power LED torches that all torches were banned. They must have got some push back if it has changed.
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Re: 3 men caught spotlighting in Tallangatta VIC

Post by Gwion » 13 Aug 2018, 10:19 am

sungazer wrote:I didnt read the fact sheet which is pretty dumb. I was going off a leaflet that was delivered in the mail "due to living in deer habitat" some years ago when they changed the regulations at that time they quoted with the recent updates in technology and the invent of new high power LED torches that all torches were banned. They must have got some push back if it has changed.


No worries, mate. But is is good to know that a legitimate hunter can easily avoid any trouble if caught out after dark by simply having rifle unloaded and ammo packed away (ie: not just in a pocket, i would assume.
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Re: 3 men caught spotlighting in Tallangatta VIC

Post by marksman » 13 Aug 2018, 12:20 pm

Gwion wrote:
sungazer wrote:I didnt read the fact sheet which is pretty dumb. I was going off a leaflet that was delivered in the mail "due to living in deer habitat" some years ago when they changed the regulations at that time they quoted with the recent updates in technology and the invent of new high power LED torches that all torches were banned. They must have got some push back if it has changed.


No worries, mate. But is is good to know that a legitimate hunter can easily avoid any trouble if caught out after dark by simply having rifle unloaded and ammo packed away (ie: not just in a pocket, i would assume.


in deer habitat it's not that simple
especially if you are in a ute, no firearms or ammo in cab, makes it hard for farmers who would usually put the firearm behind the seat out of sight
unsecured can be ammo in the glovebox, locked or not
as I said not just for deer hunters but anyone who passes through deer habitat, there is no distinction or cal, you could get done with a 22 for unsecured
it's pretty easy to become non legitimate :unknown: read the fact sheets properly
I may be wrong Gwion but I recon you might have struggled with unsecured and spotlights in deer habitat, especially before these posts were put up :allegedly:
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