Careful with your online shopping

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Careful with your online shopping

Post by Zappa » 14 Nov 2018, 4:33 pm

Just thought I'd post this for a heads up to newbie shooters like myself where I nearly got breached and my long arms license may have been in jeopardy.
I was living in Victoria a few months ago and travelling back and forthe between the ACT and VIC. FIFO , work related. Whilst at home , VIC, I jumped online to a well known firearms dealer to purchase a training pistol which is allowed in VIC.
I made the grave mistake of putting down my ACT address for collection and hence unbeknown to me , the drama unfolded. Well, the order didn't go through, as the dealer informed me by cancelling my order and commenting that the training aid was not permitted in my State. I did not jump back and re-order and modify my address. I left it at that.

Fast forward months later, an upon fronting up to the registry to collect my A+B license , the dealer had informed my local firearms registry, which happens to be the AFP, that I ATTEMPTED to purchase a prohibited item way back then. They jasked for a pls explain and I told them that I was training for my cat H license and saw the item to use as a training aid to use in VIC. Enough said. They understood and we moved on.

My gripe is that I was not given the opportunity by the dealer, to comment before they informed the police of this attempt. I totally understand the obligations of the dealer but had they given me the opportunity, I would have explained the oversight and my error. I would also have put it in writing if they cared. Pretty disappointing.

So my lesson learned. Do not buy s**t online if you travel \ work and live between multiple jurisdictions as things covertly get reported without your awareness.
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Re: Careful with your online shopping

Post by bladeracer » 14 Nov 2018, 5:13 pm

Zappa wrote:My gripe is that I was not given the opportunity by the dealer, to comment before they informed the police of this attempt. I totally understand the obligations of the dealer but had they given me the opportunity, I would have explained the oversight and my error. I would also have put it in writing if they cared. Pretty disappointing.

So my lesson learned. Do not buy s**t online if you travel \ work and live between multiple jurisdictions as things covertly get reported without your awareness.


I'm not sure the dealer could've done anything differently, regardless of whether they'd contacted you.
I think they have the obligation to report any such attempt, even if you'd cancelled the order yourself. Probably not something they enjoy having to do.
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Re: Careful with your online shopping

Post by Zappa » 14 Nov 2018, 5:23 pm

bladeracer wrote:Probably not something they enjoy having to do.


Granted. However, If I could get through to this dealer by phone, ( always busy and put on hold forever ) Im sure they would have stopped the conversation in its tracks by informing me the transaction could not proceed. I highly doubt they would have taken it any further. Especially as they wouldn't have know who I was at that stage of our dealing.

Again just sharing my experience with on-line dealing... never again..
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Re: Careful with your online shopping

Post by Jäger » 19 Nov 2018, 3:22 pm

I just want to point out, people need to be careful about knives too.
Some knives that are legal in some states, aren't legal in others. Be careful when purchasing online.
Pay particular attention to how a folding knife opens, or whether it's double edged or not.
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Re: Careful with your online shopping

Post by Zappa » 19 Nov 2018, 3:42 pm

Jäger wrote:Some knives that are legal in some states, aren't legal in others. Be careful when purchasing online.


I would advise to avoid firearms / sports online stores altogether for trivial things such as knives. If you really wanted a particular knife I would look on Ebay.

That or risk being put on the Australian Federal Police blacklist like I was, thanks to this obtuse, inept and imprudent QLD dealer.
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Re: Careful with your online shopping

Post by zhuk » 19 Nov 2018, 5:17 pm

Jäger wrote:I just want to point out, people need to be careful about knives too.
Some knives that are legal in some states, aren't legal in others. Be careful when purchasing online.
Pay particular attention to how a folding knife opens, or whether it's double edged or not.


Or bayonets in Victoria, for which so I believe you must keep a 'collectors' record. One other thing NSW has going for it, amass as many as you want, as long as they are able to be fitted to a rifle :)

Double edged, can be complicated re States laws. In NSW fine to possess, but I had to get a B709 and took 6 months to get a Fairbairn & Sykes dagger in from Canada and through the Feds at Customs importation.
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Re: Careful with your online shopping

Post by bladeracer » 19 Nov 2018, 5:53 pm

zhuk wrote:
Jäger wrote:I just want to point out, people need to be careful about knives too.
Some knives that are legal in some states, aren't legal in others. Be careful when purchasing online.
Pay particular attention to how a folding knife opens, or whether it's double edged or not.


Or bayonets in Victoria, for which so I believe you must keep a 'collectors' record. One other thing NSW has going for it, amass as many as you want, as long as they are able to be fitted to a rifle :)

Double edged, can be complicated re States laws. In NSW fine to possess, but I had to get a B709 and took 6 months to get a Fairbairn & Sykes dagger in from Canada and through the Feds at Customs importation.


I wasn't aware of any restriction on bayonets here in Victoria. Border Force passed three for me earlier this year without any problems.
It's classed as a "Controlled Weapon" here, which we're allowed to own as long as we have a lawful excuse.
https://www.police.vic.gov.au/retrievemedia.asp?media_id=108958&status=active
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Re: Careful with your online shopping

Post by Gaznazdiak » 19 Nov 2018, 6:34 pm

zhuk wrote:
Jäger wrote:I just want to point out, people need to be careful about knives too.
Some knives that are legal in some states, aren't legal in others. Be careful when purchasing online.
Pay particular attention to how a folding knife opens, or whether it's double edged or not.


Or bayonets in Victoria, for which so I believe you must keep a 'collectors' record. One other thing NSW has going for it, amass as many as you want, as long as they are able to be fitted to a rifle :)

Double edged, can be complicated re States laws. In NSW fine to possess, but I had to get a B709 and took 6 months to get a Fairbairn & Sykes dagger in from Canada and through the Feds at Customs importation.


Mate, I had a similar problem with 2 Grivory training blades several years ago, almost 6 months of bullsh!t and being informed I was "on the books" for 2 attempts to import prohibited items. The first attempt was 2 books, over 20years previously FFS. Big Brother has a long memory. I told them the Grivorys were for a collection, if I'd admitted they were for training purposes they'd have kept them and I'd probably have a cellmate.
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Re: Careful with your online shopping

Post by Zappa » 19 Nov 2018, 6:42 pm

Doesnt help your personal situation when you're trying to maintain a clear probity in relation to gov clearances for work purposes and something like this happens.
Inept ******. They should be selling fishing rods instead of firearms.
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Re: Careful with your online shopping

Post by zhuk » 19 Nov 2018, 8:04 pm

bladeracer wrote:
zhuk wrote:
Jäger wrote:I just want to point out, people need to be careful about knives too.
Some knives that are legal in some states, aren't legal in others. Be careful when purchasing online.
Pay particular attention to how a folding knife opens, or whether it's double edged or not.


Or bayonets in Victoria, for which so I believe you must keep a 'collectors' record. One other thing NSW has going for it, amass as many as you want, as long as they are able to be fitted to a rifle :)

Double edged, can be complicated re States laws. In NSW fine to possess, but I had to get a B709 and took 6 months to get a Fairbairn & Sykes dagger in from Canada and through the Feds at Customs importation.


I wasn't aware of any restriction on bayonets here in Victoria. Border Force passed three for me earlier this year without any problems.
It's classed as a "Controlled Weapon" here, which we're allowed to own as long as we have a lawful excuse.
https://www.police.vic.gov.au/retrievemedia.asp?media_id=108958&status=active



Apologies for not being too clear on that. Sure collecting is a valid excuse in VIC but what I meant is that as far as I can ascertain bayonets are not classified as weapons controlled or otherwise in NSW and I know of no "valid excuse" being necessary
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Re: Careful with your online shopping

Post by bladeracer » 20 Nov 2018, 12:56 pm

zhuk wrote:Apologies for not being too clear on that. Sure collecting is a valid excuse in VIC but what I meant is that as far as I can ascertain bayonets are not classified as weapons controlled or otherwise in NSW and I know of no "valid excuse" being necessary


I would think NSW is essentially the same though, if you have it on you while you're walking the dog or in the car while doing the shopping it's a weapon. If you have it on you while you are taking the appropriate rifle to the range then it's merely a "collectible".
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Re: Careful with your online shopping

Post by BangBangSkeetSkeet » 20 Nov 2018, 2:11 pm

Gaznazdiak wrote:
zhuk wrote:
Jäger wrote: Mate, I had a similar problem with 2 Grivory training blades several years ago, almost 6 months of bullsh!t and being informed I was "on the books" for 2 attempts to import prohibited items. The first attempt was 2 books, over 20years previously FFS. Big Brother has a long memory.


Well see Gaz, that was your problem right there. How dare you attempt to be in possession of prohibited knowledge!!
My choice is what I choose to do, and if I'm causing no harm why should it bother you?
Your choice is who choose to be, and if you're causing no harm then you're alright with me
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Re: Careful with your online shopping

Post by marksman » 20 Nov 2018, 5:25 pm

Zappa wrote:
bladeracer wrote:Probably not something they enjoy having to do.


Granted. However, If I could get through to this dealer by phone, ( always busy and put on hold forever ) Im sure they would have stopped the conversation in its tracks by informing me the transaction could not proceed. I highly doubt they would have taken it any further. Especially as they wouldn't have know who I was at that stage of our dealing.

Again just sharing my experience with on-line dealing... never again..


common courtesy and politeness would have IMHO meant that the dealer should have had a discussion with you before making assumptions that discredit you with the AFP, if he were not a tinfoil hat wearer thinking you are a terrorist that is :wtf:, if I I were you I would be emailing this mongrel with a piece of my mind, he is a piece of ****** :thumbsdown: and tell him to pick up his phone

in regard to bayonet's being a problem in Vic, I think it goes that if you are collecting you need a permit of some sort but if you have a need and use them you dont :unknown: something like that anyway
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Re: Careful with your online shopping

Post by Zappa » 21 Nov 2018, 6:31 pm

marksman wrote:[

common courtesy and politeness would have IMHO meant that the dealer should have had a discussion with you before making assumptions that discredit you with the AFP, if he were not a tinfoil hat wearer thinking you are a terrorist that is :wtf:, if I I were you I would be emailing this mongrel with a piece of my mind, he is a piece of ****** :thumbsdown: and tell him to pick up his phone


Absolute imbeciles, marksman. I will be writing to the manager with a terse mail explaining the stress and what their lack of prudent, and indiscreet action has put me under.
Hopefully they'll re-educate their staff with a proper business process ( like basic fkn communication ) that will not place their future customers in a difficult, and often irrevocable situation.

"" Dear Manager --- pick up the fkcn phone and apply basic 101 customer service. ffs. ""

Fortunately do to my nature of work , I have regular contact with AFP Officers and was able to get an understanding ( from their perspective ) how this could potentially affect my probity. I also spoke in length with my SSPC club President basically to explain the aberration and just to keep him in the loop.
So breathing a lot easier but need to do some work.

Treating every potential, on-line customer and flagging them to authorities as a terrorist and public enemy number 1 , without basic checking - defies all vectors of logic. .
But we learn, live and shoot
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Re: Careful with your online shopping

Post by Lifesaride » 22 Nov 2018, 11:13 am

Zappa wrote:
marksman wrote:[

common courtesy and politeness would have IMHO meant that the dealer should have had a discussion with you before making assumptions that discredit you with the AFP, if he were not a tinfoil hat wearer thinking you are a terrorist that is :wtf:, if I I were you I would be emailing this mongrel with a piece of my mind, he is a piece of ****** :thumbsdown: and tell him to pick up his phone


Absolute imbeciles, marksman. I will be writing to the manager with a terse mail explaining the stress and what their lack of prudent, and indiscreet action has put me under.
Hopefully they'll re-educate their staff with a proper business process ( like basic fkn communication ) that will not place their future customers in a difficult, and often irrevocable situation.

"" Dear Manager --- pick up the fkcn phone and apply basic 101 customer service. ffs. ""

Fortunately do to my nature of work , I have regular contact with AFP Officers and was able to get an understanding ( from their perspective ) how this could potentially affect my probity. I also spoke in length with my SSPC club President basically to explain the aberration and just to keep him in the loop.
So breathing a lot easier but need to do some work.

Treating every potential, on-line customer and flagging them to authorities as a terrorist and public enemy number 1 , without basic checking - defies all vectors of logic. .
But we learn, live and shoot


I see where you are coming from, and that it was a simple mistake. But the dealer may be (probably is) obliged to report any issues such as this as part of the over the top regulatory burden we all enjoy here in Australia.

If I was required to report someone to authorities or potentially put myself at risk of a large fine, or possibly put my business at risk I know which option I’d take everyday of the week.

I’m not having a go at yourself or the dealer, but just pointing out the dealers hand may have been forced.
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Re: Careful with your online shopping

Post by Zappa » 24 Nov 2018, 3:34 pm

Lifesaride wrote:, but just pointing out the dealers hand may have been forced.
Cheers


I cant find anything that Ive stated above that would indicate the dealer's hand was forced. If someone can also point to the firearms ACT the obligations of a dealer towards the authorities that circumvents and infringes peoples right to privacy, I would like to know.

I've since spoken to several dealers about this issue and they have all concurred that the "clever dealer" should exercised some prudence before doing what they did.

I say again, they're absolute fu/ckwits.
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Re: Careful with your online shopping

Post by bladeracer » 24 Nov 2018, 4:45 pm

Zappa wrote:
Lifesaride wrote:, but just pointing out the dealers hand may have been forced.
Cheers


I cant find anything that Ive stated above that would indicate the dealer's hand was forced. If someone can also point to the firearms ACT the obligations of a dealer towards the authorities that circumvents and infringes peoples right to privacy, I would like to know.

I've since spoken to several dealers about this issue and they have all concurred that the "clever dealer" should exercised some prudence before doing what they did.

I say again, they're absolute fu/ckwits.


Ask the dealer why they did it.
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Re: Careful with your online shopping

Post by Lifesaride » 25 Nov 2018, 9:30 am

Zappa wrote:
Lifesaride wrote:, but just pointing out the dealers hand may have been forced.
Cheers


I cant find anything that Ive stated above that would indicate the dealer's hand was forced. If someone can also point to the firearms ACT the obligations of a dealer towards the authorities that circumvents and infringes peoples right to privacy, I would like to know.

I've since spoken to several dealers about this issue and they have all concurred that the "clever dealer" should exercised some prudence before doing what they did.

I say again, they're absolute fu/ckwits.


I dont recall saying you said anything about the dealers hand being forced. I simply pointed out they may, MAY being the operative word, have been from a regulatory side of things. It goes a lot further than simply the firearms act since there are multiple jurisdictions enforcing different interpretations, not to mention federal and state laws regarding importation and domestic distribution of different items. It’s a dogs breakfast.

Right to privacy? You’ve got to be joking, that is well and truly a thing of the past. Especially anyone with a firearm license or subject to the kind of background checks you are describing for work clearances.

Like I said I’m not trying to have a go at you mate, it is definitely a wake up call for how vigilant every member of the public must be these days, especially when stringent security clearances are a requirement for your line of work. As you have found out, one black mark could have had far reaching ramifications.
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