Denied firearms license (Vic)

Questions about Victorian gun and ammunition laws. Victorian Firearms Act 1996.

Re: Denied firearms license (Vic)

Post by sickooli » 24 Nov 2018, 2:20 pm

Jäger wrote:I think you may be able to appeal the decision.
I'm guessing you'd end up having to front up to a Magistrate and convince him/her why they should grant you a license.

Thank you i hope so
sickooli
Recruit
Recruit
 
Posts: 24
Victoria

Re: Denied firearms license (Vic)

Post by sickooli » 24 Nov 2018, 2:24 pm

Gaznazdiak wrote:Well it wouldn't be the first miscarriage of justice Tom.

David Eastman spent 19yrs in jail for the murder of Colin Winchester, a crime he has now been proven not to have committed.

My only suggestion mate, is to seek professional legal advice if your desire to own a firearm is worth what that's likely to cost you.

With over zealous police, teachers with New Age ideas and teenagers being what they are it's far from impossible, so if that's the case, as I said, my sympathies, it would be a monumental embuggerance.

I do hope though, that you can appreciate the concern.
We shooters are some of the most regulation ridden people in the country and every time there is the slightest negative occurrence, whether it's an injury from a negligent discharge or a tragedy like Margaret River, the uninformed anti gun crowd use it as an opportunity to squeeze us further.

I do wish you well with it.
:drinks:

Don't forget smokers lol, but thank you for your comments
sickooli
Recruit
Recruit
 
Posts: 24
Victoria

Re: Denied firearms license (Vic)

Post by JakeN » 24 Nov 2018, 3:33 pm

Gday mate
Speak to a lawyer specialising in firearms law
Get your day in court to have this sorted
Good luck

Far better for one innocent guy be denied access to firearms than take the risk of another John Edwards.

Cmon now this is against the whole basis of the so called justice system
It is exactly the argument used for every infringement on common mans rights !
Especially gun control!
This type of authoritarian worshiping boot-licking is surprising and disappointing on a shooting forum
JakeN
Recruit
Recruit
 
Posts: 4
Victoria

Re: Denied firearms license (Vic)

Post by Gaznazdiak » 24 Nov 2018, 3:58 pm

Jäger wrote:
Gaznazdiak wrote:David Eastman spent 19yrs in jail for the murder of Colin Winchester, a crime he has now been proven not to have committed.


He may still have committed the crime, and circumstantially there is some evidence he did, but at the retrial there wasn't enough evidence.

The incompetence of the forensics witness is mind numbing.

In any case, this is another reason why you should never have the death penalty. Whether it's incompetence or indeed corruption, innocent people will die.



It could be the case Jager, but I think a big part of Eastman getting convicted was his bizarre behavior. He refused to cooperate with the investigation beyond stating it wasn't him, he carried toy guns into court and taunted the police and prosecutors. He is a seriously twisted unit, but it's looking like we'll never know.

Mafia dope growers supposedly got away with the Makay murder. Not too much of a stretch to see them doing it again, given the circumstances.

I agree with you on the death penalty for single murders, but for he likes of Milat or Bryant, there are no doubts, they will never be safe to release, far better to put them down and redirect the hundreds of thousands of dollars they each cost to look after every year they live.
fideles usque ad mortem
User avatar
Gaznazdiak
Officer Cadet
Officer Cadet
 
Posts: 1973
New South Wales

Re: Denied firearms license (Vic)

Post by Gaznazdiak » 24 Nov 2018, 4:01 pm

JakeN wrote:Gday mate
Speak to a lawyer specialising in firearms law
Get your day in court to have this sorted
Good luck

Far better for one innocent guy be denied access to firearms than take the risk of another John Edwards.

Cmon now this is against the whole basis of the so called justice system
It is exactly the argument used for every infringement on common mans rights !
Especially gun control!
This type of authoritarian worshiping boot-licking is surprising and disappointing on a shooting forum




That's the US attitude Jake.

How's that working for them?

It's actually one of the reasons we have a justice system mate, to keep us safe from those who just might do something impetuous, not to ensure that everyone can have a gun just because they want one.

I'd love to have a 1911A1, but I have no justification and couldn't be bothered with the frig-around involved, I accept that.

Like it or not, sometimes the greater good is greater than individual desires, the grown ups accept that.
fideles usque ad mortem
User avatar
Gaznazdiak
Officer Cadet
Officer Cadet
 
Posts: 1973
New South Wales

Re: Denied firearms license (Vic)

Post by zhuk » 24 Nov 2018, 6:46 pm

Jäger wrote:
zhuk wrote:Is there a blanket ban forever in ViC? Just asking because in NSW you can have convictions for violence with a firearm, domestic violence/breach AVO *and* convictions for terrorism offences - but after 10 years from the time served etc you don't have to tick 'yes' on those boxes on the licence application.



If you don't tick yes, and there is something on your record, you may get a call (or called in to the station) for a please explain why you lied.

If you're unsure if you have something on your record or it was something very long ago (even 20 yrs) and you're not sure if it was a conviction or whatever, just tick yes. They check your record anyway.

I'm trying to recall who said this, may have been the local DFO.


No, it's 10 years, that is what the box requires you to tick, or not. From FAR's website:

What personal history checks are conducted?

Mandatory police checks are conducted on all applicants to ensure that legislative provisions are being met, including provisions with respect to public safety. Certain criminal history may prevent a person from obtaining a firearms licence in NSW and a licence cannot be issued if a person:

Is subject to an Apprehended Violence Order (AVO) or an Interim Apprehended Violence Order or for a period of 10 years from the expiry of the AVO (unless the AVO has been revoked)
Is subject to a Good Behaviour Bond for a prescribed offence
Is subject to a Firearms or Weapons Prohibition Order
Is a registrable person or corresponding registrable person under the Child Protection (Offenders Registration) Act 2000
Has been convicted within the last 10 years of an offence prescribed by the regulations.

A prescribed offence is a conviction for offences involving firearms or weapons, prohibited drugs/plants, violence, public order, assaults against law enforcement officers, offences of a sexual nature or involving fraud, dishonesty, stealing, robbery, organised criminal groups and recruitment, riot, affray or offences relating to terrorism


https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/online_services/firearms/licences/frequently_asked_questions


The only Personal History question which states "EVER"in NSW or elsewhere (in capitals) is asking for depression, if you have *ever* had treatment or counselling, even if it was as a child 40+ years ago. Unless of course you lie on a govt document because the police unequivocally do not subpoena every single applicant's records from the Health Dept.
Last edited by zhuk on 24 Nov 2018, 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
zhuk
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 147
New South Wales

Re: Denied firearms license (Vic)

Post by Bruiser64 » 24 Nov 2018, 6:50 pm

sickooli wrote:Hi everyone need some advice please, l applied for a firearm license, when i rang LRD to find out the progress they gave me the bad news that it has been denied, back in april 2012 i slapped my daughter for coming home stoned and drunk, at the time she was 13, went to school the next day and teacher asked why are you so sad? she replied my dad hit me. That was it the police got involved and to cut a long story short I went to court and was convicted with the following; CONTRAVENE FAM VIOLENCE INTERVENTN ORDER UNLAWFUL ASSAULT (2 Charges) FAIL TO ANSWER BAIL Result: Aggregate 1 MONTH imprisonment. Concurrent. Sentence is wholly suspended under Section 27 of the Sentencing Act 1991. Operational period is 12 MONTHS 12/04/2012. l also have a bad driving history mainly low level speeding. I cant even go to magistrates court for application 189 because jail term applies to suspended ones as well.Any advice would be greatly appreciated, l really wanted a license to hunt, best regards and safe shooting Tom.


If you haven’t already done so I suggest you read this:

https://www.police.vic.gov.au/content.a ... t_ID=34427

And this:

https://www.police.vic.gov.au/content.a ... t_ID=34426

You probably need to establish if the police determined that you are a “prohibited person” or “not a fit and proper person” or both. I would suggest speaking to someone at a Community Legal Centre to get advice as to whether or not you have anything to gain by pursuing the matter further. Community Legal Centres provide free legal advice to anyone in the community. They have no vested interest in getting you to take expensive and pointless legal action as some unethical lawyers have been known to do. If you contact them they can advise you if you fall within their scope, as they do have some exclusions.

You have indicated above you were given a custodial sentence that was suspended for 12 months. I think it is reasonable, on that basis, to infer the court considered your offending to be quite serious. You have also admitted a pattern of traffic offences. My experience of the courts is they don’t consider traffic offences (particularly a persistent pattern of them over a long period of time) as trivial. They draw unfavourable conclusions about a persons character. My advice to you is to get advice from a community legal centre. I am going to assume you have stopped speeding, so I would suggest you continue with that. Any additional offences are likely to count against you in my view.
Bruiser64
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 264
Western Australia

Re: Denied firearms license (Vic)

Post by sickooli » 24 Nov 2018, 7:42 pm

Jäger wrote:
zhuk wrote:Is there a blanket ban forever in ViC? Just asking because in NSW you can have convictions for violence with a firearm, domestic violence/breach AVO *and* convictions for terrorism offences - but after 10 years from the time served etc you don't have to tick 'yes' on those boxes on the licence application.



If you don't tick yes, and there is something on your record, you may get a call (or called in to the station) for a please explain why you lied.

If you're unsure if you have something on your record or it was something very long ago (even 20 yrs) and you're not sure if it was a conviction or whatever, just tick yes. They check your record anyway.

I'm trying to recall who said this, may have been the local DFO.

UNREAL, Who ever said l lied, FYI, l ticked yes and l also sent with my application my most recent police check which had the conviction.
sickooli
Recruit
Recruit
 
Posts: 24
Victoria

Re: Denied firearms license (Vic)

Post by sickooli » 24 Nov 2018, 7:49 pm

Bruiser64 wrote:
sickooli wrote:Hi everyone need some advice please, l applied for a firearm license, when i rang LRD to find out the progress they gave me the bad news that it has been denied, back in april 2012 i slapped my daughter for coming home stoned and drunk, at the time she was 13, went to school the next day and teacher asked why are you so sad? she replied my dad hit me. That was it the police got involved and to cut a long story short I went to court and was convicted with the following; CONTRAVENE FAM VIOLENCE INTERVENTN ORDER UNLAWFUL ASSAULT (2 Charges) FAIL TO ANSWER BAIL Result: Aggregate 1 MONTH imprisonment. Concurrent. Sentence is wholly suspended under Section 27 of the Sentencing Act 1991. Operational period is 12 MONTHS 12/04/2012. l also have a bad driving history mainly low level speeding. I cant even go to magistrates court for application 189 because jail term applies to suspended ones as well.Any advice would be greatly appreciated, l really wanted a license to hunt, best regards and safe shooting Tom.


If you haven’t already done so I suggest you read this:

https://www.police.vic.gov.au/content.a ... t_ID=34427

:Thanks Bruiser64, l have seen both on vicpol website, i'm thinking about hiring a lawyer from ssaa as they specialize in firearm matters.

https://www.police.vic.gov.au/content.a ... t_ID=34426

You probably need to establish if the police determined that you are a “prohibited person” or “not a fit and proper person” or both. I would suggest speaking to someone at a Community Legal Centre to get advice as to whether or not you have anything to gain by pursuing the matter further. Community Legal Centres provide free legal advice to anyone in the community. They have no vested interest in getting you to take expensive and pointless legal action as some unethical lawyers have been known to do. If you contact them they can advise you if you fall within their scope, as they do have some exclusions.

You have indicated above you were given a custodial sentence that was suspended for 12 months. I think it is reasonable, on that basis, to infer the court considered your offending to be quite serious. You have also admitted a pattern of traffic offences. My experience of the courts is they don’t consider traffic offences (particularly a persistent pattern of them over a long period of time) as trivial. They draw unfavourable conclusions about a persons character. My advice to you is to get advice from a community legal centre. I am going to assume you have stopped speeding, so I would suggest you continue with that. Any additional offences are likely to count against you in my view.
sickooli
Recruit
Recruit
 
Posts: 24
Victoria

Re: Denied firearms license (Vic)

Post by sickooli » 24 Nov 2018, 8:04 pm

Gaznazdiak wrote:
JakeN wrote:Gday mate
Speak to a lawyer specialising in firearms law
Get your day in court to have this sorted
Good luck

Far better for one innocent guy be denied access to firearms than take the risk of another John Edwards.

Cmon now this is against the whole basis of the so called justice system
It is exactly the argument used for every infringement on common mans rights !
Especially gun control!
This type of authoritarian worshiping boot-licking is surprising and disappointing on a shooting forum




That's the US attitude Jake.

How's that working for them?

It's actually one of the reasons we have a justice system mate, to keep us safe from those who just might do something impetuous, not to ensure that everyone can have a gun just because they want one.

I'd love to have a 1911A1, but I have no justification and couldn't be bothered with the frig-around involved, I accept that.

Like it or not, sometimes the greater good is greater than individual desires, the grown ups accept that.
Thanks buddy for your comments, For what its worth, l believe in pro life, nobody should take the life of a human being, whether it's the death penalty or abortions or euthanasia etc. Gods greatest gift to humans is humans in itself.
sickooli
Recruit
Recruit
 
Posts: 24
Victoria

Re: Denied firearms license (Vic)

Post by Gaznazdiak » 24 Nov 2018, 8:34 pm

That's ok Tom.

Mate there are many thorny issues around those subjects.

My view is quite different.

Best we leave it there while we're ahead.
fideles usque ad mortem
User avatar
Gaznazdiak
Officer Cadet
Officer Cadet
 
Posts: 1973
New South Wales

Re: Denied firearms license (Vic)

Post by TassieTiger » 25 Nov 2018, 12:17 am

When my now ex wife left, she lodged an Family Violence Order with the courts via a lawyer. They completed the form - but did not complete ANY “detail” about what I had apparently done...they just wrote TBA.

This took me 20 months to fight, with psychology interviews, character witnesses, court appearances, children lawyers, etc etc etc etc etc etc - and just before going before a family magistrate for hearing? - they withdrew the complaint.
18 months of only being allowed to see my kids 1 day a fortnight, having all my guns / licence taken from me - for what amounted to outright perjury ...what happened to her and the lawyer? Absolutely nothing...Better to be safe than sorry being the ruling....

I know of a person who had their email account hacked, an ex then emailed herself saying that the email account owner was going to shoot her dead, she took email to cops...he lost everything. 3 years later, he befriends her and gets her to admit she lied and stole his password - on a hidden Iphone. But recording someone on a hidden source is inadmissible, so although the cops were sympathetic, they couldn’t do anything...this was 9 years ago now and ol mate has been advised the 10 year law will apply to him - that is, he can re apply in 2019.

Sometimes it’s a frustrating world.
I feel your pain Tom - speak to a lawyer, hope for a decision based on context and reality...when I was younger I’d jump in and help out anyone getting bashed or harassed...not any more...an assault charge “true or not” can screw more than your day. I just don’t trust anymore...
Tikka .260 (custom)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 28’
Sauer 30-06
Howa 300 win mag.
TassieTiger
Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major
 
Posts: 1501
Tasmania

Re: Denied firearms license (Vic)

Post by Kelsey Cooter » 25 Nov 2018, 9:11 am

Might be worth talking to that solicitor who is in the ssaa magazine who specialises in weapons licensing, he would be able to tell you if your wasting your time or not.
Kelsey Cooter
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 182
Queensland

Re: Denied firearms license (Vic)

Post by grandadbushy » 25 Nov 2018, 10:20 am

G'day again sickooli ,mate I've been reading along at the posts here after your request for some advice at the beginning of the post
Now what has been clear to me is you would rather hear the advice that you agree with and not the advice you disagree with
Hence the unsettling with Gaznazdiak who's advice was to the point not belittling in any way
So only going with the advice you prefer can lead to many grey areas in a discussion and really doesn't solve anything and at the end of it you haven't
gained a thing
Those giving stories about others DVO's are fine we all have a story to tell but they are different to your reason for you getting one and sometimes we have
to bite the bullet , take the kick in the nuts and man up and take the consequences
A couple of posts up you talk about PRO LIFE that's fine yet you took it upon yourself to hit a person which in your eyes is ''ok''
yet in the eyes of the law is illegal and deems you a nasty person ''Hitting is called assault''
Now lets go to the facts- You openly admit to receiving the dvo for hitting your daughter Fact, - you could have handled it with compassion and spoke
to her about the dangers of taking these substances and maybe confine her to the home for a period of time but by hitting her you only showed your
angry side
I used to ground my 4 daughters and it seemed to work as now they tell me they didn't want to hurt me or the mum so they stayed away from things like that
You openly admit to having a driving record Fact,- by continuously being fined being it only for speeding does show you as a person who
doesn't abide by the law not good in the eyes of the law
Mate you can't just flout the law and assault people be it your daughter and expect its ok, because it's not and now your paying the price
You say back further that you only slapped your daughter not your wife it doesn't matter these days assault is assault and until you accept the you
will have trouble accepting advice different to your way of thinking
Sit in a quiet spot and think about what you have done and ask yourself ''would i have done it different if given the chance'' and be honest with yourself
and it will become clear to you why you have been denied a gun licence
But until you own what you have done then no advice in the world will help you
and sorry to be so blunt but that's me and I do know none of us are perfect but most of us do make the proper choices in life which reflects to our
ownership of a gun licence
As I said in my first post as number one to reply is your only chance is seek legal advice and go from there but be prepared for the worst as I
doubt they will change the law just for you
grandadbushy
Officer Cadet
Officer Cadet
 
Posts: 1854
Queensland

Re: Denied firearms license (Vic)

Post by grandadbushy » 25 Nov 2018, 10:21 am

Sorry Gaznazdiak for using your name meant no offence mate
grandadbushy
Officer Cadet
Officer Cadet
 
Posts: 1854
Queensland

Re: Denied firearms license (Vic)

Post by Gaznazdiak » 25 Nov 2018, 11:30 am

grandadbushy wrote:Sorry Gaznazdiak for using your name meant no offence mate


No need to apologize Granddad, no offence taken mate.
We are on the same page with this issue.

Another poster on this thread suggested I was an "authoritarian worshipping boot-licker" because I believe in the rule of law.

I might not like some of the laws and regulations by which society works, but the only reason we have a society at all is the rule of law. Without it we have chaotic, fuedal anarchy.

A prime example, as I have metioned on another thread, I was involved in a high speed collision with a semi in 1996. The impact was such that the engine and gearbox parted company with the car, the seat mounts tore out of the floor, the seatbelt broke and I was ejected through the closed drivers window.

As a result I broke my cervical spine at C3-C4 level and my thoracic spine at T6, T7, T8 and T9 level, broke my scone and my right-frontal lobe.
This has left me with, amongst other, brain injury related problems, constant pain that is often totally debilitating.

All the toxic pharmaceuticals needed to control the symptoms make me quite ill and the high potency opioids like Fentanyl are more dangerous to use than heroin.

There is, however one thing that shuts down the nerve pain and ends the vomiting caused by the pain like flicking a switch. Cannabis.

That said, I live alone a long way from town and need my driver's license. I pay my rent, in part, by controlling the ferals on this property so I need my shooters license.

I could ignore the legalities and my quality of life would be far better, but as a realist I know that I have no choice but to abide by a law I see as totally ridiculous.

Alcohol has a toxicity level of 5, meaning that for the average person, 5 times what it takes to cause recreational intoxication will kill them. The toxicity level of Cannabis is over 40,000, making it physically impossible to overdose on it.

Dr Alex Wodak is one of Australia's preeminent drug and alcohol addiction specialists, he has been pushing for the legalization of Cannabis for many years and once stated that the only way you could die from a toxic dose is if it fell on you, because it would be several hundred kilos.

There are so many people who have fallen for the "Reefer Madness" propaganda surrounding this virtually harmless plant that it is still impossible for medical research to be funded in a realistic way.

The US has had medical Cannabis for decades, but because even though it is legal at the state level, it is still illegal at the federal level, and researchers are unable to get proper funding.

There is also the fact that the last thing the big pharmaceutical industries want to see is a freely available universal panacea that anyone can grow in their backyard.

The main thrust of the above blabber is that regardless of how we might feel about individual laws, whether we agree wholeheartedly or feel they are an impingement upon our liberty, while they are on the books, we have to operate accordingly.

My apologies for a long rant of little interest to anyone but those in the same boat as myself, but sometimes you have to vent or go mad.
fideles usque ad mortem
User avatar
Gaznazdiak
Officer Cadet
Officer Cadet
 
Posts: 1973
New South Wales

Re: Denied firearms license (Vic)

Post by grandadbushy » 25 Nov 2018, 1:14 pm

I'm hearing you mate I don't think I would like to walk in your shoes for a day pain and all I've had my own for 3yrs but nothing like yours
i'm sure we are on the same page of step up and ware your bad if that's the case and don't put blame elsewhere or blame the law because you have decided to break it
some people get a bad deal we've all had bad deals but that doesn't mean the law is an ass because we have broken it
Anyway mate hope you have more better days than bad ones and take it easy :thumbsup:
grandadbushy
Officer Cadet
Officer Cadet
 
Posts: 1854
Queensland

Re: Denied firearms license (Vic)

Post by Gaznazdiak » 25 Nov 2018, 1:34 pm

Thanks Granddad.
Mate I'm walking and can look after myself and the biggy, I can wipe my own blurter, so I'm doing a lot better than some.

When I was sent to the Brain Injury Unit I met a 23yo guy who had fallen 2m out of a tree in his backyard. He had a small bleed in his brain, nothing life threatening in itself, but he wasn't found for over an hour.

He ended up as a ventilated quadriplegic who could only move his eyes and facial muscles and was facing the rest of his life in an old people's home because that was the only critical care alternative.

He said his greatest wish was that he could use his hands.
So that he could pull the ventilator tube out of his throat because nobody else would do it for him.

So it's all relative Granddad, things could be better, but they could also be a sh!tload worse.

Although I must admit, I'd be a hell of a lot happier if I hadn't had the world's most incompetent lawyer running my compensation claim. I certainly wouldn't be relying on the charity of the taxpayer.
But that's another rant, for another day.
:drinks:
fideles usque ad mortem
User avatar
Gaznazdiak
Officer Cadet
Officer Cadet
 
Posts: 1973
New South Wales

PreviousNext

Back to top
 
Return to Victorian gun laws