Queensland specific_e-petition

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Re: Queensland specific_e-petition

Post by Ecobogan » 19 Dec 2018, 4:46 pm

magnum56 wrote:Just another idealist that has no idea of reality outside of their little patch of suburbia, I wonder what she and the other AJP people suggest we do about the pests that do in excess of 720 million dollars damage to agriculture annually, ask them nicely to stop destroying our crops and livestock.

Their platforms of environmental protection and no culling are contradictory, without culling the environment suffers, but with no practical knowledge or understanding of how it really works out there in the big bad world, that contradiction would not compute with them.


Have you spoken to her directly?
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Re: Queensland specific_e-petition

Post by grandadbushy » 19 Dec 2018, 7:44 pm

Well Ecobogan i'm not sure he has to after all she took it upon herself to make her thoughts and beliefs public and state her feelings about persons that do
take shooting and hunting as a sport or food gathering then pest control
What would talking to her personally do she has posted it out there clearly on her site
Now your question now leads me to ask you a question '' How do you feel about her wanting to stop all hunting, shooting , pest control and firearms in general''?

Sorry I butted in magnum56 please forgive me mate
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Re: Queensland specific_e-petition

Post by bigrich » 19 Dec 2018, 7:54 pm

magnum56 wrote:Just another idealist that has no idea of reality outside of their little patch of suburbia, I wonder what she and the other AJP people suggest we do about the pests that do in excess of 720 million dollars damage to agriculture annually, ask them nicely to stop destroying our crops and livestock.

Their platforms of environmental protection and no culling are contradictory, without culling the environment suffers, but with no practical knowledge or understanding of how it really works out there in the big bad world, that contradiction would not compute with them.


when you confront ignorant fools like that , that want to live in their own fairytale land , with facts and truth, they just don't want to know . guns bad, the media says so. why do we have to kill animals when we can grow meat on polystyrene trays in the coles deli ? at this point she would order another lite decaffe double cappachino, with a dash of carrot juice, put her fingers in her ears and go " LALALALALALA ", i can't hear you :roll: . ;) :D :drinks: :drinks: :thumbsup:
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Re: Queensland specific_e-petition

Post by Ecobogan » 19 Dec 2018, 9:08 pm

grandadbushy wrote:Well Ecobogan i'm not sure he has to after all she took it upon herself to make her thoughts and beliefs public and state her feelings about persons that do
take shooting and hunting as a sport or food gathering then pest control
What would talking to her personally do she has posted it out there clearly on her site
Now your question now leads me to ask you a question '' How do you feel about her wanting to stop all hunting, shooting , pest control and firearms in general''?

Sorry I butted in magnum56 please forgive me mate


I figured that he mightn't have, but it isn't out of the ordinary for opposing groups to have some rapport or contact.
To answer your question I most certainly don't agree with her stance on stopping hunting, shooting and feral pest control or firearms etc.

This is the exact reason I'd like to talk to her.

I'm not saying I could turn her around however I've made a very many see the upside to hunting and firearms through conversation. A fair number of these were freaked out by the guns concept, vegans, full house lefty 'greenies' and all that... I know many.
In my experience it has never paid off to assume that it's not worth it.
I feel very strongly about the responsible use of firearms, hunting feral animals for food and caring for the environment. I suppose I feel strongly enough about it to take the time to get my point across and listen to theirs.
And if it is a waste of time then it's my time wasted.
I'd also like to talk to Samantha Lee, Richard de Natale and anyone else with clout who doesn't have the full picture.
I realise it's been 'done before' but all the more reason to keep the momentum up
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Re: Queensland specific_e-petition

Post by grandadbushy » 20 Dec 2018, 12:02 am

Thank you for your explanation Ecobogan I respect what you are saying
But on the same note some don't get the idea of people like her putting stuff out there when they clearly don't have enough background on the matters
I would like to know her back ground on these matters and her experience of how she would go about shutting down a multi million dollar
industry such as feral management, crop degradation through feral animals , water courses damaged by ferals mate the list go's on longer than my front
verandah
I read some where she may be an animal inspector well the only time you see inspectors up here is when fires go through or to collect registration for animals
We've had major problems with domestic dogs up here and one actually attacked a 4 year old kid so I trapped it for the childs owner and gave it to the council inspectors all they done was make him register it and build a fence this dog still wanders nothing done
Then one nigh about 4 days later my whole vegie garden gets stomped to the ground a whole 1/4 acre of vegies they admitted they had done it to a bloke they didn't know I knew police done nothing so I can't grow a garden in my own yard and guess what they are animal liberationists I've just found out and friendly with one of the
inspectors so go figure
So mate if you think you can make a difference talking one on one with them then I wish you luck because I couldn't they are just too set in their ways and just won't change their attitudes towards hunting or any other shooting
These people don't mention that we already have laws to cover all aspects of cruelty , shooting , hunting , feral eradication and so on
so people like her are just stooges for other people because her on her own would make no difference whether she got in or not and I hope she doesn't
Because I am a legal firearm owner I have strict laws to follow '' no problems'' I am a total law abiding citizen and will always be but I will stick up for my rights and
I don't like people that promise the world to voters to take those rights away from me or any other people like me especially when they know they can't come
good on their promises to me that's all but fraud
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Re: Queensland specific_e-petition

Post by Ecobogan » 20 Dec 2018, 6:53 pm

Mate I know what you mean and you have, like normal, raised some very valid points.
I've had many a heated talk with lefty's about this whole 'can't cut a tree down, everyone should be vegan and why do we need mines anyway?'
It's a bullsh#t poorly informed and disconnected argument.......that can be turned around by the facts.
We will eat meat, we need timber to build the houses THAT WE ALL LIVE IN, and the life as we know it would fall flat on it's face without the minerals and everything else that come from the mining industry.
For the most part these people just flat out have never met a shooter, never done a wheelstand on a hot road bike and haven't drunk (enough) home made bourbon.
Point being they just haven't ventured outside their circles and to be blunt....the same however goes for many right wingers. Because I seem to be the left winger in the right and vice versa I see so much both sides have on common but the dots don't get joined because the two don't talk...it frustrates the living f#@k out of me....which is why I joined enough gun in the first place.
Your vege patch getting trampled and the dog attacking that kid would've driven me nuts, that's nigh on a punchable offence. But the animal libbers aren't all the same just as we aren't the careless gun totin' whatever's that many of them think, hence my steam for all this.
Anyway I really appreciate your time in contributing mate it helps me put together this 'case' if you like.
I just believe that it's worth talking to them about. I've been doing this, not fruitlessly either, for years now.
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Re: Queensland specific_e-petition

Post by grandadbushy » 20 Dec 2018, 7:45 pm

Well then Ecobogan keep up the good work trying to talk sense into them I wish you luck hopefully common sense will prevail in
the long run I have my doubts but here's hoping
As far as the garden goes as a punchable offence mate your not wrong and I was known to never take a backward step in my younger day
but those days are only a distant memory and if you don't get smarter the older you get you're destine to fail miserably
Not only that if I retaliated I stand to loose my most treasured sport and food gathering because of a possible assault charge easier to just not have a garden
till they move when ever that may be
anyway best of luck Ecobogan hope you can make some head way with them
Cheers :thumbsup: :drinks:
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Re: Queensland specific_e-petition

Post by Ecobogan » 20 Dec 2018, 9:02 pm

Thanks mate and I certainly don't promise anything but am looking forward to the call and do like a hearty exchange.
I'll be approaching her with full respect and despite our differences know that she's probably pretty sharp and would like her to be able to speak freely.
I'd like to know how she got into animal rights, what in particular brothers her about hunting and firearms and why we hunt and what it means to us.
Almost taking an anthropological standpoint, as in we don't just do it for the hell of it. It's a way of life and a way she could perhaps know a little more about. Not her fault.
I'd also, to be honest, like her to be able to approach me freely about the topic of guns and hunting as we have nothing to hide....quite the reverse in fact.
Luck is probably what I could use too, I'll try call her tomorrow
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Re: Queensland specific_e-petition

Post by magnum56 » 21 Dec 2018, 10:37 pm

Ecobogan wrote:
magnum56 wrote:Just another idealist that has no idea of reality outside of their little patch of suburbia, I wonder what she and the other AJP people suggest we do about the pests that do in excess of 720 million dollars damage to agriculture annually, ask them nicely to stop destroying our crops and livestock.

Their platforms of environmental protection and no culling are contradictory, without culling the environment suffers, but with no practical knowledge or understanding of how it really works out there in the big bad world, that contradiction would not compute with them.


Have you spoken to her directly?


No and I don't see when I would have the time to bother, from previous experience with these types, I feel my valuable time would be wasted as they generally have an agenda that blinds them to the facts of every day reality, but if you want to try I say good luck, and I am genuine with my sincerity, should you be successful in getting them to see sense, I would be the first to say well done. :thumbsup:
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Re: Queensland specific_e-petition

Post by Ecobogan » 22 Dec 2018, 10:31 am

magnum56 wrote:
Ecobogan wrote:
magnum56 wrote:Just another idealist that has no idea of reality outside of their little patch of suburbia, I wonder what she and the other AJP people suggest we do about the pests that do in excess of 720 million dollars damage to agriculture annually, ask them nicely to stop destroying our crops and livestock.

Their platforms of environmental protection and no culling are contradictory, without culling the environment suffers, but with no practical knowledge or understanding of how it really works out there in the big bad world, that contradiction would not compute with them.


Have you spoken to her directly?


No and I don't see when I would have the time to bother, from previous experience with these types, I feel my valuable time would be wasted as they generally have an agenda that blinds them to the facts of every day reality, but if you want to try I say good luck, and I am genuine with my sincerity, should you be successful in getting them to see sense, I would be the first to say well done. :thumbsup:


Thanks mate I appreciate that. I know it must seem like an odd way to spend my time but my keen interest Aussie politics keeps me in.
So I haven't managed to speak to Karagh Mae-Kelly as yet but have had contact with the party via Facebook and the dialogue has been flowing since yesterday afternoon.
There's a chat on the AJP Facebook page regarding a brumby cull that apparently went sideways on the Singleton army base just recently.

I know from talking to a number of rangers and National parks managers over the years that aerial culls conducted by pro marksmen is, or perhaps almost always is, an ethical, humane and efficient way to control these animals.
Understandably they feel that ALL culls are more massacre like leaving animals wounded etc....because they simply haven't seen the ethical version.
Ideally I'd like to hear from any or all pro shooters here that would be interested in giving me some facts that I can relay to them. What the pro's n con's of trapping, poisoning and darting etc are aswell if possible. I've researched it but could use more direct experience info.
The discussion is respectful and they are prepared to listen... as this is valuable information to them and they're keen to keep it rolling.

These incremental steps in discussion aren't designed to turn them around as such, it really comes back to gun laws, gun owners and how they're seen.
Policy change can either come from increased support or less opposition so here we go.
Thanks and I'll try to post the link
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Re: Queensland specific_e-petition

Post by Daddybang » 22 Dec 2018, 10:45 am

I might cop a bit of flack here but imo aerial shooting is not the most humane way to cull.
The reason I think this way is because contrary to Hollywood movies a helicopter is not a "stable" platform as anyone who has been up in one can attest to. ..they vibrate alot. Couple that with the fact that the target is almost always going to be on the move the chance of a ethical one shot kill is not as good as shooting from a stable rest on the ground. I guess this is why they aerial shooters use semis giving them a fast follow up. :unknown: :drinks:
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Re: Queensland specific_e-petition

Post by Ecobogan » 22 Dec 2018, 10:45 am

Ecobogan
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Re: Queensland specific_e-petition

Post by Ecobogan » 22 Dec 2018, 10:48 am

I'm posting as Richard Roberts as that's my name
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Re: Queensland specific_e-petition

Post by bigrich » 22 Dec 2018, 11:11 am

Ecobogan wrote:I'm posting as Richard Roberts as that's my name


be careful putting your real name online these days mate, ya just don't know if it's a slow news week the media might try to crucify ya for something or some eco-terrorist doesn't try to track you down over a difference of opinions :unknown:

:drinks: :thumbsup:
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Re: Queensland specific_e-petition

Post by Ecobogan » 22 Dec 2018, 11:32 am

Thanks for the heads up mate. I realise that it can be risky but am prepared to be in the firing line so to speak
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Re: Queensland specific_e-petition

Post by bladeracer » 22 Dec 2018, 1:14 pm

Daddybang wrote:I might cop a bit of flack here but imo aerial shooting is not the most humane way to cull.
The reason I think this way is because contrary to Hollywood movies a helicopter is not a "stable" platform as anyone who has been up in one can attest to. ..they vibrate alot. Couple that with the fact that the target is almost always going to be on the move the chance of a ethical one shot kill is not as good as shooting from a stable rest on the ground. I guess this is why they aerial shooters use semis giving them a fast follow up. :unknown: :drinks:


I think it is possible for an experienced shooter to take humane shots from a helicopter. But I disagree with the helicopter itself as it terrifies the animals, and makes humane kills more difficult. When I was in the Kimberly they would regularly cull donkeys by helicopter, the pilots can be extraordinarily talented.
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Re: Queensland specific_e-petition

Post by Ecobogan » 22 Dec 2018, 4:16 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Daddybang wrote:I might cop a bit of flack here but imo aerial shooting is not the most humane way to cull.
The reason I think this way is because contrary to Hollywood movies a helicopter is not a "stable" platform as anyone who has been up in one can attest to. ..they vibrate alot. Couple that with the fact that the target is almost always going to be on the move the chance of a ethical one shot kill is not as good as shooting from a stable rest on the ground. I guess this is why they aerial shooters use semis giving them a fast follow up. :unknown: :drinks:


I think it is possible for an experienced shooter to take humane shots from a helicopter. But I disagree with the helicopter itself as it terrifies the animals, and makes humane kills more difficult. When I was in the Kimberly they would regularly cull donkeys by helicopter, the pilots can be extraordinarily talented.


Thanks lads and the honest straight up insight that things, ariel cull wise, are far from easy and straight forward takes balls to admit and not deny..the AJP will probably be reading this.
Having never shot from a chopper, I figured that it'd have its challenges but its really important for this talk to have it said from people who've actually been there. This whole caper is about giving them the whole picture good, bad or ugly.

The correspondence so far is pretty fresh and there's a lot I'd still like to say to the party . But next want to make it clear to them that there's virtually no one on this forum who wouldn't do everything they could to humanely kill an animal.
This is quite a foreign concept to an animal rights activist as they don't have the emotional ability to kill.
We do however, and definitely try to do it as cleanly as possible and this ethical attitude can also be shown to them quite easily.
The only reason I'm engaging in this discussion is to try and take the attention off us shooters because they actually have nothing to worry about. Perhaps they then can then focus on other animal rights issues and somewhat leave us be.
It's a big call but doesn't seem to be going backwards and won't stop with the AJP
Thanks again
Last edited by Ecobogan on 22 Dec 2018, 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Queensland specific_e-petition

Post by grandadbushy » 22 Dec 2018, 8:57 pm

G'day Ecobogan mate no cull is ever pretty no matter how you perceive it as you are killing ferals on mass which shocks some people
The ethical truth is up to the pilot and the shooter on how good they are at their job
As Daddybang said not all kills are good that's why they use semi auto rifles to eliminate the bad shots
Its not easy to shoot from a moving platform and its not for all shooters I my self have never shot from a chopper but shot from a vehicle
Also I agree with Bladeracer as to ethical shooting from chopper can be done with experienced shooters but they are only human and can have bad placement
of a shot at times due to air turbulence or any other unforeseen circumstance but have the ability to use a follow up shot instantly
I find it a bit odd that you ask for information on this subject when this is always brought up every time something happens with the animal liberationists
putting it into the public arena and you would have seen and heard some of it at times
These people would have listened to it all before you can get onto utube and see what damage ferals do also see how ethical chopper shooting is nothing on
this earth is perfect but chopper shooting is one of the very few ways we have to get to the ferals and control their numbers as ethically as possible
Poisons aren't perfect either but what else do the farmers do I don't see any of the animal people out all hours of the night in rain and hail to save their stock from ferals
tearing the young up as soon as they are born or torn from the mother during birth there no person on earth that wouldn't do it better if they had the means to do so
Shooters , farmers , hunters and the like have been demonised by these people for many years they have heard our thoughts and how ethical hunters and shooters and farmers are so why is it all of a sudden it raises its ugly head again other than for someone to gain some votes by demonising shooters , hunters and farmers further

I've got to ask as i'm an up front person and I think many on here would like to know as they probably are thinking as I do '' Is this information you ask for an information
finding episode that can be used against us shooters on a later date by these people after chopping and adding to it and putting it into their words and different meaning
Sorry if I sound sceptical but I am when people ask for info that has been out there for ever if they want the facts ask the people doing the job go on a cull see how
it's done seeing is believing and by her not doing this which she obviously hasn't then she would know the facts of how it's done get out and see how much people suffer and how much other animals suffer when dying of hunger like horses eating their dead yes a grass feeder eating meat due to over stocked ferals destroying their feed
There's more to this world than what they wish to believe and don't want to see
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