Beginner gun safe question

Ask your firearm legal questions here. Firearms licensing and permits, storage, shooters rights information.

Re: Beginner gun safe question

Post by bladeracer » 07 Jan 2019, 6:28 pm

trekin wrote:Actually, they're not unawful up here, in the right circumstance. As for anyone being charged with using a prohibited weapon when their alarm system gets triggered, no, but only because this is one of those laws that was not thought out, hastily implemented, and one they hope noone will cotton onto because they are too pigheaded to remove, and if they did, then they are too scared that the anti's will start on with their crap about rolling back the gun laws.


You can legally set traps aimed at injuring people up there?
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 4773
Victoria

Re: Beginner gun safe question

Post by TassieTiger » 08 Jan 2019, 4:16 am

Anyone see those “alarms” on used guns that utilise 12 g shells as deterrents? No pellets just powder??
I wonder how the heck they can be legal - butvthe seller advertised that a farmer in xx court thrives using his device etc etc...it’s effectively a small device with a trip wire firing pin lol
Tikka T3 .260
Steyr Pro Varmint .223
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22
Webley .177
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g
Steyr Pro Hunt 30-06
TassieTiger
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 435
Tasmania

Re: Beginner gun safe question

Post by trekin » 08 Jan 2019, 4:53 am

TassieTiger wrote:Anyone see those “alarms” on used guns that utilise 12 g shells as deterrents? No pellets just powder??
I wonder how the heck they can be legal - butvthe seller advertised that a farmer in xx court thrives using his device etc etc...it’s effectively a small device with a trip wire firing pin lol

It only uses 12g primers, and is built, sold and approved as a security device, although you do need a firearms licence to buy the primers.
Image Rifle stock and pistol grip reproduction.
"legally obligated to be a victim in this country"
User avatar
trekin
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 444
Queensland

Re: Beginner gun safe question

Post by elnino » 08 Jan 2019, 6:23 am

First post here so please be nice.

Licensed way back, gave it up and now getting back in to it.

Safes - I have read here in seveal different threads, including this one that safes need to have concealed hinges? Is this personal opinion or some stupid regulation that some states have? I am in SA and there is nothing in the regulation that states this.

Although i can see some point to the agument, with an external hinge on one side and a simple lock on the opposite edge, a (proper) safes strength has nothing to do with external or internal hinges. In a good safe with multi-point locking mechanism the hinges do not form part of the lock, purely serve as a means to allow the door to open easily. i.e the door would be secured regardless of the hinge being present or not.

I have a safe with external hinges and 6 point locking. No one is getting in to it quickly with or without the hinges inctact.
elnino
Private
Private
 
Posts: 3
South Australia

Re: Beginner gun safe question

Post by trekin » 08 Jan 2019, 6:36 am

bladeracer wrote:
trekin wrote:Actually, they're not unawful up here, in the right circumstance. As for anyone being charged with using a prohibited weapon when their alarm system gets triggered, no, but only because this is one of those laws that was not thought out, hastily implemented, and one they hope noone will cotton onto because they are too pigheaded to remove, and if they did, then they are too scared that the anti's will start on with their crap about rolling back the gun laws.


You can legally set traps aimed at injuring people up there?

No, I didn't say it is "legal to set traps aimed at injuring people", what I said is that "they're not unawful (typo, should read unlawful) up here".
Section 327 (3) of the QLD Criminal Code Act;
327 Setting mantraps
(1) Any person who sets or places any spring gun, mantrap, or
other engine calculated to destroy human life or to inflict
grievous bodily harm, or causes any such thing to be set or
placed, in any place with the intent that it may kill or inflict
grievous bodily harm upon a trespasser or other person
coming in contact with it, or sets or places any such thing in
any such place and in any such manner that it is likely to cause
any such result, is guilty of a misdemeanour, and is liable to
imprisonment for 3 years.
(2) Any person who knowingly permits any such spring gun,
mantrap, or other engine, which has been set or placed by
another person in any such place and in any such manner that
it is likely to cause any such result, to continue so set or
placed in any place which is then in, or afterwards comes into,
the person’s possession or occupation, is deemed to have set
and placed the gun, trap, or engine, with the intent aforesaid.
(3) This section does not make it unlawful to set any gin or trap
such as is usually set for the purpose of destroying vermin; or
to set any spring gun, mantrap, or engine, at night in a
dwelling house for the protection of the dwelling house.

Yes, before you ask, there is a difference between lawful and legal. For example, using your lights and siren inside your gun room/house here in QLD;
Is it lawful? It could be argued that although the siren and triggering device would meet the definition of "any spring gun, mantrap, or other engine", and it is concievable that the crim could be exposed to the pressure wave for at least a minute, at which time he/she would suffer some permanent/irréversible hearing loss and that this is considered as grievous bodily harm, it is, however, not unlawful to set it "at night in a dwelling house for the protection of the dwelling house".
Is it legal, probably not, as it could be argued that the siren, when used in such a manner, would be "an acoustical antipersonnel device of an intensity that is capable of causing bodily harm" Cat R weapon.
Image Rifle stock and pistol grip reproduction.
"legally obligated to be a victim in this country"
User avatar
trekin
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 444
Queensland

Re: Beginner gun safe question

Post by bladeracer » 08 Jan 2019, 12:25 pm

trekin wrote:No, I didn't say it is "legal to set traps aimed at injuring people", what I said is that "they're not unawful (typo, should read unlawful) up here".
Section 327 (3) of the QLD Criminal Code Act;
327 Setting mantraps
(1) Any person who sets or places any spring gun, mantrap, or
other engine calculated to destroy human life or to inflict
grievous bodily harm, or causes any such thing to be set or
placed, in any place with the intent that it may kill or inflict
grievous bodily harm upon a trespasser or other person
coming in contact with it, or sets or places any such thing in
any such place and in any such manner that it is likely to cause
any such result, is guilty of a misdemeanour, and is liable to
imprisonment for 3 years.
(2) Any person who knowingly permits any such spring gun,
mantrap, or other engine, which has been set or placed by
another person in any such place and in any such manner that
it is likely to cause any such result, to continue so set or
placed in any place which is then in, or afterwards comes into,
the person’s possession or occupation, is deemed to have set
and placed the gun, trap, or engine, with the intent aforesaid.
(3) This section does not make it unlawful to set any gin or trap
such as is usually set for the purpose of destroying vermin; or
to set any spring gun, mantrap, or engine, at night in a
dwelling house for the protection of the dwelling house.

Yes, before you ask, there is a difference between lawful and legal. For example, using your lights and siren inside your gun room/house here in QLD;
Is it lawful? It could be argued that although the siren and triggering device would meet the definition of "any spring gun, mantrap, or other engine", and it is concievable that the crim could be exposed to the pressure wave for at least a minute, at which time he/she would suffer some permanent/irréversible hearing loss and that this is considered as grievous bodily harm, it is, however, not unlawful to set it "at night in a dwelling house for the protection of the dwelling house".
Is it legal, probably not, as it could be argued that the siren, when used in such a manner, would be "an acoustical antipersonnel device of an intensity that is capable of causing bodily harm" Cat R weapon.


I don't think it is conceivable a burgler would be exposed for "at least a minute" though, I couldn't stay in here for a minute when the alarm goes off without hearing protection. Unless of course, he's already deaf. These are sirens that are provided as part of the security system, so my guess is they must comply with whatever regulations control such devices.

Interesting about being able to set mantraps at home at night though. Can you set them in the yard or do they have to protect the dwelling specifically? My safes are not in "a dwelling house". I knew people in Perth who hung fishing nets with hooks in them "to dry" along their fences to deter the scumbags that burgle houses.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 4773
Victoria

Re: Beginner gun safe question

Post by trekin » 08 Jan 2019, 3:13 pm

bladeracer wrote:
trekin wrote:No, I didn't say it is "legal to set traps aimed at injuring people", what I said is that "they're not unawful (typo, should read unlawful) up here".
Section 327 (3) of the QLD Criminal Code Act;
327 Setting mantraps
(1) Any person who sets or places any spring gun, mantrap, or
other engine calculated to destroy human life or to inflict
grievous bodily harm, or causes any such thing to be set or
placed, in any place with the intent that it may kill or inflict
grievous bodily harm upon a trespasser or other person
coming in contact with it, or sets or places any such thing in
any such place and in any such manner that it is likely to cause
any such result, is guilty of a misdemeanour, and is liable to
imprisonment for 3 years.
(2) Any person who knowingly permits any such spring gun,
mantrap, or other engine, which has been set or placed by
another person in any such place and in any such manner that
it is likely to cause any such result, to continue so set or
placed in any place which is then in, or afterwards comes into,
the person’s possession or occupation, is deemed to have set
and placed the gun, trap, or engine, with the intent aforesaid.
(3) This section does not make it unlawful to set any gin or trap
such as is usually set for the purpose of destroying vermin; or
to set any spring gun, mantrap, or engine, at night in a
dwelling house for the protection of the dwelling house.

Yes, before you ask, there is a difference between lawful and legal. For example, using your lights and siren inside your gun room/house here in QLD;
Is it lawful? It could be argued that although the siren and triggering device would meet the definition of "any spring gun, mantrap, or other engine", and it is concievable that the crim could be exposed to the pressure wave for at least a minute, at which time he/she would suffer some permanent/irréversible hearing loss and that this is considered as grievous bodily harm, it is, however, not unlawful to set it "at night in a dwelling house for the protection of the dwelling house".
Is it legal, probably not, as it could be argued that the siren, when used in such a manner, would be "an acoustical antipersonnel device of an intensity that is capable of causing bodily harm" Cat R weapon.


I don't think it is conceivable a burgler would be exposed for "at least a minute" though, I couldn't stay in here for a minute when the alarm goes off without hearing protection. Unless of course, he's already deaf. These are sirens that are provided as part of the security system, so my guess is they must comply with whatever regulations control such devices.

Interesting about being able to set mantraps at home at night though. Can you set them in the yard or do they have to protect the dwelling specifically? My safes are not in "a dwelling house". I knew people in Perth who hung fishing nets with hooks in them "to dry" along their fences to deter the scumbags that burgle houses.

You and I might not think it is inconcievable, however, to someone who is in an unfarmilar place, in the dark of night, having his sense of balance/direction disrupted by earspliting noise and high intensity strobes might find it difficult to remove himself in a timely manner.
Yes, the sirens are supplied with secrity systems, and are designed and approved to alert the homeowner/other people to the fact that the alarm system has been tripped and as such are meant to be fitted to the outside of he building, they are not designed/approved to be fitted indoors to be used as a pyshical deterent.
Subsection (3) is pretty specific: "at night in a dwelling house for the protection of the dwelling house". (edited to add, a dwelling house also emcompasses any outbuildings that have direct communication with the house, ie under a high block house, shed that has an enclosed walkway to it.)
Remember, this is for QLD, your State laws will no doubt be tottaly arsed up in this regard.
Image Rifle stock and pistol grip reproduction.
"legally obligated to be a victim in this country"
User avatar
trekin
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 444
Queensland

Re: Beginner gun safe question

Post by Patriot » 08 Jan 2019, 4:52 pm

byadbo boy wrote:As much as I don't want to hurt your local Gunshop, the Bunnings safes are reasonable quality and comply with legislation.
I have seen them for as little as $150 on special.
Frankly, the compliance risk you face for as little an outlay as $150 - to me it's just not worth it.
Imagine no licence, and your firearm seized- and a court attendance notice with a hefty fine.
To maybe save $150 ?
Sorry mate I'd just spend the hard earned and protect your rights, state sanctioned privilege, and investment !


Yep, I asked a mate of mine who is a locksmith and a shooter, the 3 and 5 gun safes that Bunnings sell offer the same level of security that you’ll get from a similar size and style of safe sold at a gun shop.
Patriot
Private
Private
 
Posts: 47
Queensland

Previous

Back to top
 
Return to Australian gun laws