Ziad wrote:Ebsy safes. .... two words i won't mix together.
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Ziad wrote:Ebsy safes. .... two words i won't mix together.
RoginaJack wrote:One of the obvious problems with a small gun safe is the internal storage locker; you can get bugger all in it! Think BIG, and then buy BIGGER!
bladeracer wrote:I don't consider the gun safe to be for security against gun thieves, more for preventing accidents by people accessing them simply because...guns. Gun safes are the very minimal security the authorities felt they could force us to comply with at our own expense, while appeasing the anti-gun nuts.
For actual security against theft you're better off spending your money on a security system, CCTV and making the room/building more difficult to enter. Multiple safes multiply the amount of time required for thieves to enter them all, also burning up more cutting discs, batteries, and gas to do so. Sirens and strobe lights inside the room make it very difficult for them to concentrate on the job. A smoke machine makes it virtually impossible, but is getting expensive.
Anybody that really wants your guns will simply grab one of your family members and threaten them until you open even the most impenetrable of safes...
bladeracer wrote:I don't consider the gun safe to be for security against gun thieves, more for preventing accidents by people accessing them simply because...guns. Gun safes are the very minimal security the authorities felt they could force us to comply with at our own expense, while appeasing the anti-gun nuts.
For actual security against theft you're better off spending your money on a security system, CCTV and making the room/building more difficult to enter. Multiple safes multiply the amount of time required for thieves to enter them all, also burning up more cutting discs, batteries, and gas to do so. Sirens and strobe lights inside the room make it very difficult for them to concentrate on the job. A smoke machine makes it virtually impossible, but is getting expensive.
Anybody that really wants your guns will simply grab one of your family members and threaten them until you open even the most impenetrable of safes...
trekin wrote:bladeracer wrote:I don't consider the gun safe to be for security against gun thieves, more for preventing accidents by people accessing them simply because...guns. Gun safes are the very minimal security the authorities felt they could force us to comply with at our own expense, while appeasing the anti-gun nuts.
For actual security against theft you're better off spending your money on a security system, CCTV and making the room/building more difficult to enter. Multiple safes multiply the amount of time required for thieves to enter them all, also burning up more cutting discs, batteries, and gas to do so. Sirens and strobe lights inside the room make it very difficult for them to concentrate on the job. A smoke machine makes it virtually impossible, but is getting expensive.
Anybody that really wants your guns will simply grab one of your family members and threaten them until you open even the most impenetrable of safes...
Also, doing this in QLD might lead to charges of being in procession of a Cat D weapon.
JWD40 wrote:trekin wrote:bladeracer wrote:I don't consider the gun safe to be for security against gun thieves, more for preventing accidents by people accessing them simply because...guns. Gun safes are the very minimal security the authorities felt they could force us to comply with at our own expense, while appeasing the anti-gun nuts.
For actual security against theft you're better off spending your money on a security system, CCTV and making the room/building more difficult to enter. Multiple safes multiply the amount of time required for thieves to enter them all, also burning up more cutting discs, batteries, and gas to do so. Sirens and strobe lights inside the room make it very difficult for them to concentrate on the job. A smoke machine makes it virtually impossible, but is getting expensive.
Anybody that really wants your guns will simply grab one of your family members and threaten them until you open even the most impenetrable of safes...
Also, doing this in QLD might lead to charges of being in procession of a Cat D weapon.
I don't understand the link to Cat D weapons, how would this lead to charges of possession ?
trekin wrote:Bodily harm is defined in the QLD Criminal Code as;
"bodily harm means any bodily injury which interferes with health or comfort."
To have the effect mentioned by Bladeracer, a siren would need an output pressure wave of at least 110 DB (most burglar alarm siren are now rated at 120 DB), and as we know, sound pressure wave at these levels will cause not only temporary damage to hearing, but also some permanent loss as well.
trekin wrote:(d) an antipersonnel gas, and an antipersonnel substance, of
a corrosive, noxious or irritant nature or that is capable
of causing bodily harm, and any weapon capable of
discharging the gas or substance by any means, other
than a gas or substance and any weapon capable of
discharging the gas or substance that is primarily
designed for the control of native or feral animals;
bladeracer wrote:trekin wrote:Bodily harm is defined in the QLD Criminal Code as;
"bodily harm means any bodily injury which interferes with health or comfort."
To have the effect mentioned by Bladeracer, a siren would need an output pressure wave of at least 110 DB (most burglar alarm siren are now rated at 120 DB), and as we know, sound pressure wave at these levels will cause not only temporary damage to hearing, but also some permanent loss as well.
I would think it could hardly be classed as a weapon if it requires the victim to voluntary trigger it themselves, and then hang around to be damaged by it. Who do I sue every time I accidentally trigger it myself
JWD40 wrote:trekin wrote:(d) an antipersonnel gas, and an antipersonnel substance, of
a corrosive, noxious or irritant nature or that is capable
of causing bodily harm, and any weapon capable of
discharging the gas or substance by any means, other
than a gas or substance and any weapon capable of
discharging the gas or substance that is primarily
designed for the control of native or feral animals;
Hrm, does that mean we can gas intruders with substances that are designed to control feral animals ?
TassieTiger wrote:On the cusp of buying sage no 4...you’d think I’d bloody learn.
trekin wrote:And yet mantraps are illegal in your State. By which I mean, you are the one held responsible for the carnage resulting from the victim triggering it themselves.
So, you're saying that the crim will pack up and leave just because he trigered your lights and sirens, not because the lights and sirens are making his work environment an uncomfortable place to continue to remain in?
bladeracer wrote:trekin wrote:And yet mantraps are illegal in your State. By which I mean, you are the one held responsible for the carnage resulting from the victim triggering it themselves.
So, you're saying that the crim will pack up and leave just because he trigered your lights and sirens, not because the lights and sirens are making his work environment an uncomfortable place to continue to remain in?
I think mantraps are illegal in all states.
He might try to sue me for any damage, but I still don't see it being classed as a weapon. Has any business ever been charged with using a prohibited weapon when their alarm system gets triggered?
trekin wrote:Actually, they're not unawful up here, in the right circumstance. As for anyone being charged with using a prohibited weapon when their alarm system gets triggered, no, but only because this is one of those laws that was not thought out, hastily implemented, and one they hope noone will cotton onto because they are too pigheaded to remove, and if they did, then they are too scared that the anti's will start on with their crap about rolling back the gun laws.
TassieTiger wrote:Anyone see those “alarms” on used guns that utilise 12 g shells as deterrents? No pellets just powder??
I wonder how the heck they can be legal - butvthe seller advertised that a farmer in xx court thrives using his device etc etc...it’s effectively a small device with a trip wire firing pin lol
bladeracer wrote:trekin wrote:Actually, they're not unawful up here, in the right circumstance. As for anyone being charged with using a prohibited weapon when their alarm system gets triggered, no, but only because this is one of those laws that was not thought out, hastily implemented, and one they hope noone will cotton onto because they are too pigheaded to remove, and if they did, then they are too scared that the anti's will start on with their crap about rolling back the gun laws.
You can legally set traps aimed at injuring people up there?
trekin wrote:No, I didn't say it is "legal to set traps aimed at injuring people", what I said is that "they're not unawful (typo, should read unlawful) up here".
Section 327 (3) of the QLD Criminal Code Act;
327 Setting mantraps
(1) Any person who sets or places any spring gun, mantrap, or
other engine calculated to destroy human life or to inflict
grievous bodily harm, or causes any such thing to be set or
placed, in any place with the intent that it may kill or inflict
grievous bodily harm upon a trespasser or other person
coming in contact with it, or sets or places any such thing in
any such place and in any such manner that it is likely to cause
any such result, is guilty of a misdemeanour, and is liable to
imprisonment for 3 years.
(2) Any person who knowingly permits any such spring gun,
mantrap, or other engine, which has been set or placed by
another person in any such place and in any such manner that
it is likely to cause any such result, to continue so set or
placed in any place which is then in, or afterwards comes into,
the person’s possession or occupation, is deemed to have set
and placed the gun, trap, or engine, with the intent aforesaid.
(3) This section does not make it unlawful to set any gin or trap
such as is usually set for the purpose of destroying vermin; or
to set any spring gun, mantrap, or engine, at night in a
dwelling house for the protection of the dwelling house.
Yes, before you ask, there is a difference between lawful and legal. For example, using your lights and siren inside your gun room/house here in QLD;
Is it lawful? It could be argued that although the siren and triggering device would meet the definition of "any spring gun, mantrap, or other engine", and it is concievable that the crim could be exposed to the pressure wave for at least a minute, at which time he/she would suffer some permanent/irréversible hearing loss and that this is considered as grievous bodily harm, it is, however, not unlawful to set it "at night in a dwelling house for the protection of the dwelling house".
Is it legal, probably not, as it could be argued that the siren, when used in such a manner, would be "an acoustical antipersonnel device of an intensity that is capable of causing bodily harm" Cat R weapon.
bladeracer wrote:trekin wrote:No, I didn't say it is "legal to set traps aimed at injuring people", what I said is that "they're not unawful (typo, should read unlawful) up here".
Section 327 (3) of the QLD Criminal Code Act;
327 Setting mantraps
(1) Any person who sets or places any spring gun, mantrap, or
other engine calculated to destroy human life or to inflict
grievous bodily harm, or causes any such thing to be set or
placed, in any place with the intent that it may kill or inflict
grievous bodily harm upon a trespasser or other person
coming in contact with it, or sets or places any such thing in
any such place and in any such manner that it is likely to cause
any such result, is guilty of a misdemeanour, and is liable to
imprisonment for 3 years.
(2) Any person who knowingly permits any such spring gun,
mantrap, or other engine, which has been set or placed by
another person in any such place and in any such manner that
it is likely to cause any such result, to continue so set or
placed in any place which is then in, or afterwards comes into,
the person’s possession or occupation, is deemed to have set
and placed the gun, trap, or engine, with the intent aforesaid.
(3) This section does not make it unlawful to set any gin or trap
such as is usually set for the purpose of destroying vermin; or
to set any spring gun, mantrap, or engine, at night in a
dwelling house for the protection of the dwelling house.
Yes, before you ask, there is a difference between lawful and legal. For example, using your lights and siren inside your gun room/house here in QLD;
Is it lawful? It could be argued that although the siren and triggering device would meet the definition of "any spring gun, mantrap, or other engine", and it is concievable that the crim could be exposed to the pressure wave for at least a minute, at which time he/she would suffer some permanent/irréversible hearing loss and that this is considered as grievous bodily harm, it is, however, not unlawful to set it "at night in a dwelling house for the protection of the dwelling house".
Is it legal, probably not, as it could be argued that the siren, when used in such a manner, would be "an acoustical antipersonnel device of an intensity that is capable of causing bodily harm" Cat R weapon.
I don't think it is conceivable a burgler would be exposed for "at least a minute" though, I couldn't stay in here for a minute when the alarm goes off without hearing protection. Unless of course, he's already deaf. These are sirens that are provided as part of the security system, so my guess is they must comply with whatever regulations control such devices.
Interesting about being able to set mantraps at home at night though. Can you set them in the yard or do they have to protect the dwelling specifically? My safes are not in "a dwelling house". I knew people in Perth who hung fishing nets with hooks in them "to dry" along their fences to deter the scumbags that burgle houses.
byadbo boy wrote:As much as I don't want to hurt your local Gunshop, the Bunnings safes are reasonable quality and comply with legislation.
I have seen them for as little as $150 on special.
Frankly, the compliance risk you face for as little an outlay as $150 - to me it's just not worth it.
Imagine no licence, and your firearm seized- and a court attendance notice with a hefty fine.
To maybe save $150 ?
Sorry mate I'd just spend the hard earned and protect your rights, state sanctioned privilege, and investment !