Beginner gun safe question

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Re: Beginner gun safe question

Post by TassieTiger » 01 Jan 2019, 6:40 pm

^ + 100 to this.
We are just appeasing really...
I read a book recently about the front door being nothing but an unwritten contract between the home owner and a indifferent society - a front door is generally sweet bugger all...it’s predominantly a symbol and nothing more.
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Re: Beginner gun safe question

Post by TassieTiger » 01 Jan 2019, 6:59 pm

Ziad wrote:Ebsy safes. .... two words i won't mix together.

.


Why?? I have bought all my safes via eBay and they all comply, they all work fine...
I can buy SPIKA safes via eBay - ?
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Re: Beginner gun safe question

Post by bladeracer » 01 Jan 2019, 8:32 pm

Ziad wrote:Ebsy safes. .... two words i won't mix together.



If you were buying a safe believing it would actually secure your firearms from thieves I might agree, you'd probably want an ex-bank vault...although they probably do sell those on Ebay. But even then, if somebody wants your firearms, you can't stop them.
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Re: Beginner gun safe question

Post by RoginaJack » 01 Jan 2019, 8:33 pm

One of the obvious problems with a small gun safe is the internal storage locker; you can get bugger all in it! Think BIG, and then buy BIGGER!
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Re: Beginner gun safe question

Post by bigfellascott » 02 Jan 2019, 4:02 am

RoginaJack wrote:One of the obvious problems with a small gun safe is the internal storage locker; you can get bugger all in it! Think BIG, and then buy BIGGER!


Yep just cos it says you can get XYZ in em doesn't mean you can hey, I've got a 18 gun safe and it's flatout fitting 11 in it. :unknown:

That's the reason we say get bigger as you will more than likely buy more firearms than you think you will and then having to then go and purchase another safe is a bit of a PITA so go something bigger if you can. :thumbsup:
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Re: Beginner gun safe question

Post by trekin » 02 Jan 2019, 6:50 am

bladeracer wrote:I don't consider the gun safe to be for security against gun thieves, more for preventing accidents by people accessing them simply because...guns. Gun safes are the very minimal security the authorities felt they could force us to comply with at our own expense, while appeasing the anti-gun nuts.

For actual security against theft you're better off spending your money on a security system, CCTV and making the room/building more difficult to enter. Multiple safes multiply the amount of time required for thieves to enter them all, also burning up more cutting discs, batteries, and gas to do so. Sirens and strobe lights inside the room make it very difficult for them to concentrate on the job. A smoke machine makes it virtually impossible, but is getting expensive.

Anybody that really wants your guns will simply grab one of your family members and threaten them until you open even the most impenetrable of safes...

This is the truth of the matter, it makes no difference whether it is a minimun code school locker or a bank vault that you keep your guns in if your house, itself is impenetrable or uninviting to a thief. It astounds me, the number of shooters who are lead to believe they should place more value on their firearms than they do on the rest of the contents (including those who live there) of their homes. Insurance companies do insure firearms under content insurance, but you won't get a discount because they are kept in a safe, because that is a requirement under law, however fit a security system to the house and they will give you discounts ranging from 5% - 15%, depending on the level of security.
Last edited by trekin on 02 Jan 2019, 7:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Beginner gun safe question

Post by trekin » 02 Jan 2019, 7:17 am

bladeracer wrote:I don't consider the gun safe to be for security against gun thieves, more for preventing accidents by people accessing them simply because...guns. Gun safes are the very minimal security the authorities felt they could force us to comply with at our own expense, while appeasing the anti-gun nuts.

For actual security against theft you're better off spending your money on a security system, CCTV and making the room/building more difficult to enter. Multiple safes multiply the amount of time required for thieves to enter them all, also burning up more cutting discs, batteries, and gas to do so. Sirens and strobe lights inside the room make it very difficult for them to concentrate on the job. A smoke machine makes it virtually impossible, but is getting expensive.

Anybody that really wants your guns will simply grab one of your family members and threaten them until you open even the most impenetrable of safes...

Also, doing this in QLD might lead to charges of being in procession of a Cat R (edited) weapon.
Last edited by trekin on 04 Jan 2019, 4:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Beginner gun safe question

Post by JWD40 » 03 Jan 2019, 10:58 am

trekin wrote:
bladeracer wrote:I don't consider the gun safe to be for security against gun thieves, more for preventing accidents by people accessing them simply because...guns. Gun safes are the very minimal security the authorities felt they could force us to comply with at our own expense, while appeasing the anti-gun nuts.

For actual security against theft you're better off spending your money on a security system, CCTV and making the room/building more difficult to enter. Multiple safes multiply the amount of time required for thieves to enter them all, also burning up more cutting discs, batteries, and gas to do so. Sirens and strobe lights inside the room make it very difficult for them to concentrate on the job. A smoke machine makes it virtually impossible, but is getting expensive.

Anybody that really wants your guns will simply grab one of your family members and threaten them until you open even the most impenetrable of safes...

Also, doing this in QLD might lead to charges of being in procession of a Cat D weapon.


I don't understand the link to Cat D weapons, how would this lead to charges of possession ?
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Re: Beginner gun safe question

Post by Arcwolf » 03 Jan 2019, 1:23 pm

Go as big as your budget allows!
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Re: Beginner gun safe question

Post by trekin » 04 Jan 2019, 5:47 am

JWD40 wrote:
trekin wrote:
bladeracer wrote:I don't consider the gun safe to be for security against gun thieves, more for preventing accidents by people accessing them simply because...guns. Gun safes are the very minimal security the authorities felt they could force us to comply with at our own expense, while appeasing the anti-gun nuts.

For actual security against theft you're better off spending your money on a security system, CCTV and making the room/building more difficult to enter. Multiple safes multiply the amount of time required for thieves to enter them all, also burning up more cutting discs, batteries, and gas to do so. Sirens and strobe lights inside the room make it very difficult for them to concentrate on the job. A smoke machine makes it virtually impossible, but is getting expensive.

Anybody that really wants your guns will simply grab one of your family members and threaten them until you open even the most impenetrable of safes...

Also, doing this in QLD might lead to charges of being in procession of a Cat D weapon.


I don't understand the link to Cat D weapons, how would this lead to charges of possession ?

Thanks mate, for pointing out that glaring mistake, should have read "Cat R" (have edited my comment). This is the highly restricted category of weapons that machine guns, tasers, CS spray, silencers/moderators etc come under here in QLD.
Section 8 (e) of the Weapons Categories Regulation 1997
8 Category R weapons
(1) Each of the following is a category R weapon—
(a) a machine gun or submachine gun that is fully automatic
in its operation and actuated by energy developed when
it is being fired or has multiple revolving barrels, and
any replica or facsimile of a machine gun or submachine
gun that is not a toy;
(b) a unit or device that is capable of being used for
converting any firearm to a weapon mentioned in
paragraph (a);
(c) a firearm capable of firing 50 calibre BMG cartridge
ammunition;
(d) an antipersonnel gas, and an antipersonnel substance, of
a corrosive, noxious or irritant nature or that is capable
of causing bodily harm, and any weapon capable of
discharging the gas or substance by any means, other
than a gas or substance and any weapon capable of
discharging the gas or substance that is primarily
designed for the control of native or feral animals;
(e) an acoustical antipersonnel device of an intensity that is
capable of causing bodily harm
;
(f) an electrical antipersonnel device of an intensity that is
capable of causing bodily harm;
(g) a hand grenade, other than an inert hand grenade, and an
antipersonnel mine;
(h) a silencer or other device or contrivance made or used,
or capable of being used or intended to be used, for
reducing the sound caused by discharging a firearm;
(i) a rocket launcher, recoilless rifle, antitank rifle, a
bazooka or a rocket propelled grenade type launcher;
(j) a mortar, all artillery and any incendiary or inflammable
device containing any substance capable of causing
bodily harm or damage to property, other than an
incendiary or inflammable device primarily designed for
vegetation management.
(2) A thing mentioned in subsection (1)(a), (c), (i) or (j) is not a
category R weapon if it is a public monument.

Bodily harm is defined in the QLD Criminal Code as;
"bodily harm means any bodily injury which interferes with health or comfort."
To have the effect mentioned by Bladeracer, a siren would need an output pressure wave of at least 110 DB (most burglar alarm siren are now rated at 120 DB), and as we know, sound pressure wave at these levels will cause not only temporary damage to hearing, but also some permanent loss as well.
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Re: Beginner gun safe question

Post by bladeracer » 04 Jan 2019, 3:37 pm

trekin wrote:Bodily harm is defined in the QLD Criminal Code as;
"bodily harm means any bodily injury which interferes with health or comfort."
To have the effect mentioned by Bladeracer, a siren would need an output pressure wave of at least 110 DB (most burglar alarm siren are now rated at 120 DB), and as we know, sound pressure wave at these levels will cause not only temporary damage to hearing, but also some permanent loss as well.


I would think it could hardly be classed as a weapon if it requires the victim to voluntary trigger it themselves, and then hang around to be damaged by it. Who do I sue every time I accidentally trigger it myself :-)
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Re: Beginner gun safe question

Post by JWD40 » 04 Jan 2019, 9:44 pm

trekin wrote:(d) an antipersonnel gas, and an antipersonnel substance, of
a corrosive, noxious or irritant nature or that is capable
of causing bodily harm, and any weapon capable of
discharging the gas or substance by any means, other
than a gas or substance and any weapon capable of
discharging the gas or substance that is primarily
designed for the control of native or feral animals;


Hrm, does that mean we can gas intruders with substances that are designed to control feral animals ? :lol:
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Re: Beginner gun safe question

Post by trekin » 05 Jan 2019, 4:27 am

bladeracer wrote:
trekin wrote:Bodily harm is defined in the QLD Criminal Code as;
"bodily harm means any bodily injury which interferes with health or comfort."
To have the effect mentioned by Bladeracer, a siren would need an output pressure wave of at least 110 DB (most burglar alarm siren are now rated at 120 DB), and as we know, sound pressure wave at these levels will cause not only temporary damage to hearing, but also some permanent loss as well.


I would think it could hardly be classed as a weapon if it requires the victim to voluntary trigger it themselves, and then hang around to be damaged by it. Who do I sue every time I accidentally trigger it myself :-)

And yet mantraps are illegal in your State. By which I mean, you are the one held responsible for the carnage resulting from the victim triggering it themselves.
So, you're saying that the crim will pack up and leave just because he trigered your lights and sirens, not because the lights and sirens are making his work environment an uncomfortable place to continue to remain in?
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Re: Beginner gun safe question

Post by trekin » 05 Jan 2019, 4:31 am

JWD40 wrote:
trekin wrote:(d) an antipersonnel gas, and an antipersonnel substance, of
a corrosive, noxious or irritant nature or that is capable
of causing bodily harm, and any weapon capable of
discharging the gas or substance by any means, other
than a gas or substance and any weapon capable of
discharging the gas or substance that is primarily
designed for the control of native or feral animals;


Hrm, does that mean we can gas intruders with substances that are designed to control feral animals ? :lol:

Well, definatly not, south of the boarder down Mexico way. :P
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Re: Beginner gun safe question

Post by zhuk » 07 Jan 2019, 9:54 am

TassieTiger wrote:On the cusp of buying sage no 4...you’d think I’d bloody learn.


I've got 6 lol
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Re: Beginner gun safe question

Post by byadbo boy » 07 Jan 2019, 12:27 pm

As much as I don't want to hurt your local Gunshop, the Bunnings safes are reasonable quality and comply with legislation.
I have seen them for as little as $150 on special.
Frankly, the compliance risk you face for as little an outlay as $150 - to me it's just not worth it.
Imagine no licence, and your firearm seized- and a court attendance notice with a hefty fine.
To maybe save $150 ?
Sorry mate I'd just spend the hard earned and protect your rights, state sanctioned privilege, and investment !
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Re: Beginner gun safe question

Post by bladeracer » 07 Jan 2019, 1:42 pm

trekin wrote:And yet mantraps are illegal in your State. By which I mean, you are the one held responsible for the carnage resulting from the victim triggering it themselves.
So, you're saying that the crim will pack up and leave just because he trigered your lights and sirens, not because the lights and sirens are making his work environment an uncomfortable place to continue to remain in?


I think mantraps are illegal in all states.
He might try to sue me for any damage, but I still don't see it being classed as a weapon. Has any business ever been charged with using a prohibited weapon when their alarm system gets triggered?
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Re: Beginner gun safe question

Post by trekin » 07 Jan 2019, 3:39 pm

bladeracer wrote:
trekin wrote:And yet mantraps are illegal in your State. By which I mean, you are the one held responsible for the carnage resulting from the victim triggering it themselves.
So, you're saying that the crim will pack up and leave just because he trigered your lights and sirens, not because the lights and sirens are making his work environment an uncomfortable place to continue to remain in?


I think mantraps are illegal in all states.
He might try to sue me for any damage, but I still don't see it being classed as a weapon. Has any business ever been charged with using a prohibited weapon when their alarm system gets triggered?

Actually, they're not unawful up here, in the right circumstance. As for anyone being charged with using a prohibited weapon when their alarm system gets triggered, no, but only because this is one of those laws that was not thought out, hastily implemented, and one they hope noone will cotton onto because they are too pigheaded to remove, and if they did, then they are too scared that the anti's will start on with their crap about rolling back the gun laws.
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