Ziad wrote:Rotfl... man are you a lawyer...or a normal person.
Same as I don't diagnose my kid if they are sick... but take them to a qualified doctor... you can discuss your theory with a lawyer and ideally someone who is a speacilist in firearms law in NSW. Maybe you are right and you have found the biggest loophole in the law ever.
but the common sense answer here is that your reasoning has to be flawed.
7A Offence of unauthorised possession or use of firearms generally
(1) A person must not possess or use a firearm unless the person is authorised to do so by a licence or permit.
Maximum penalty: imprisonment for 5 years.
(2) Without limiting the operation of subsection (1), a person who is the holder of a licence is guilty of an offence under this section if the person:
(a) uses a firearm for any purpose otherwise than in connection with the purpose established by the person as being the genuine reason for possessing or using the firearm, or
(b) contravenes any condition of the licence.
pomemax wrote:Sport/target shooting
A licence that is issued for the genuine reason of sport/target shooting is subject to the following conditions (in addition to any other conditions to which the licence is subject):
(a) the licensee must comply with any applicable requirements of Part 10 (Participation requirements for club members),
(b) the licence does not authorise the use of a firearm except at a shooting range approved under Part 8 or under the authority conferred by clause 33 (Licences and permits extend to authorise sighting in, patterning and related activities).
dpskipper wrote:I think you're only looking at one legal area Nigel instead of the whole picture. Whilst one document might say that you can sight in firearms on private property, another, separate document says that Cat H people must use pistols at and approved range only. One does not cancel out the other...
brett1868 wrote:Regular handgun PTAs are running at about 6wks ATM even with the online system, so add that to the 28 day waiting period...they're not like longarm PTAs
I just got 2 back in 35 days including the 28 Day wait so it's not too bad at the moment. Regular pistol is taking 2 weeks and High Cal around 3 weeks with the new online system. These 2 are H3 and as they are the first in that category I had to wait the 28 days which is a bit retarded as I have multiple pistols in other categories. The B2 & A2 PTA's were 5 days from application till arrival in the mailbox which is a vast improvement on several months ago when they were taking 4-6 weeks.
brett1868 wrote:Nigel,
That section of legislation you're quoting is not applicable to handguns and was introduced to allow farmers / pest controllers to zero their firearms on private property. Prior to the 2017 amendment it was technically illegal to test ammo or zero a rifle on private property, as stupid as that sounds it's a fact.
brett1868 wrote:The line "This clause authorises the use of a firearm on any land on which use of the firearm is not otherwise unlawful and is not limited to use at an approved shooting range" is what prohibits the use of pistols on private property.
Have a look at this section,
https://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/#/view/act/1996/46/part2/div1
Specifically7A Offence of unauthorised possession or use of firearms generally
(1) A person must not possess or use a firearm unless the person is authorised to do so by a licence or permit.
Maximum penalty: imprisonment for 5 years.
(2) Without limiting the operation of subsection (1), a person who is the holder of a licence is guilty of an offence under this section if the person:
(a) uses a firearm for any purpose otherwise than in connection with the purpose established by the person as being the genuine reason for possessing or using the firearm, or
(b) contravenes any condition of the licence.
dpskipper wrote:Nigel, have you voiced this to the relevant authorities? Someone of your knowledge and passion would be a fair match against the FAR. If you could clarify with them to put in writing that Cat H use on private property for sighting in is legal I would appreciate it as It seems we are all out of our league with the law compared to you.
Do keep me informed, I'm rooting for you.
Nigel wrote:dpskipper wrote:Nigel, have you voiced this to the relevant authorities? Someone of your knowledge and passion would be a fair match against the FAR. If you could clarify with them to put in writing that Cat H use on private property for sighting in is legal I would appreciate it as It seems we are all out of our league with the law compared to you.
Do keep me informed, I'm rooting for you.
Thanks mate. I may write to them and seek clarification. I wouldn't be holding my breath though. The police are not very good at interpreting the law and, especially in relation to firearms laws, have a tendency to interpret them the way they want.
It seems there is a strong community belief that any use of handguns on private land by category H (sport/target) licence holders in NSW would be an offence. I suspect that the police would share this view. The legislation is complex and, as demonstrated by this thread, it's easy for people to find passages that they think provide support for their view.
I recently obtained a category H licence and have heard this view expressed many times. I read the legislation because I like to go to the source to understand exactly what my rights and obligations are. What I read in the legislation is not consistent with what I keep hearing from my fellow shooters. That's why I posted in this thread. I want to understand the source of this view. If I really am wrong I would like know but I haven't heard any compelling arguments yet.
In the case of a category H (sport/target shooting) licence, the licensee is authorised to possess or use a registered pistol only for the purposes of participating in competitive shooting activities that are approved by the Commissioner.
brett1868 wrote:In the case of a category H (sport/target shooting) licence, the licensee is authorised to possess or use a registered pistol only for the purposes of participating in competitive shooting activities that are approved by the Commissioner.
Nigel wrote:
1) Is the authority granted in section 8(1) a narrow authority that is limited strictly to use "in competitive shooting activities that are approved by the Commissioner"
or is it a intended to be a broader authority that encompasses implied authorities to posses and use handguns in situations incidental to the broad purpose of participating in competitive shooting activities?
brett1868 wrote:Category H licence (pistols)In the case of a category H (sport/target shooting) licence, the licensee is authorised to possess or use a registered pistol only for the purposes of participating in competitive shooting activities that are approved by the Commissioner.
Depending on what club you're a member of they will have a documented and approved list of competitions that the club is endorsed to run. I see nothing that gives approval to shoot a commissioner approved activity in private property.
Both Pomemax and myself have been shooting pistols since the 80's and we both shoot at St Mary's so if you're out that way then get in touch, we can always use some new company to shoot with I'd be curious as to what the police come back with but I think they'll confirm it's not permitted. It's not something I'd like to defend in court at this stage.....
Nigel wrote:1) Is the authority granted in section 8(1) a narrow authority that is limited strictly to use "in competitive shooting activities that are approved by the Commissioner" or is it a intended to be a broader authority that encompasses implied authorities to posses and use handguns in situations incidental to the broad purpose of participating in competitive shooting activities?
pomemax wrote:a narrow authority that is limited strictly to use "in competitive shooting activities that are approved by the Commissioner YES
Does the use of the word "only" in the passage quoted above exclude the application of any other express authorities YES
IF you don,t want to believe me I will read about it in the papers UNDER the heading "NIGEL arrested for target shooting A pistol on private land "
the news report will go on to say its a simple case man found shooting a pistol on private land Less than half an hour in court Find X amount of $$$$ and a ten year firearms exclusion
May be you should ask how many people I know who thought the same as you I have one silly mate who bought cross bows in the 60s he did not think the crossbow ban was for people who had them years ago . DERRR (had one on the wall when cops done safe inspection )
3 maybe 4 not sure I think he was a minor the 4th all went on a ten year ban for shooting a pistol on private land at Mudgee funny thing was only 1 pistol 3 guys were shooting it all three were banned not JUST THE OWNER .
Project for you find out how many people were banned for 10 years last year and the trivial reasons I can only find figures for 2015 As at 31 October 2015, two years after the introduction of the FPO search powers, there were 1,317 people served with an FPO in NSW
Nigel wrote:2) Does the use of the word "only" in the passage quoted above exclude the application of any other express authorities granted to licence holders generally in other provisions of the act and the regulations?