Protecting yourself from idiots

Questions about Tasmanian fun and ammunition laws. Tasmanian Firearms Act 1996.

Protecting yourself from idiots

Post by TassieTiger » 28 Jan 2019, 7:44 pm

So here's the situation;
I own 300 hectares of bush that is dissected by forestry road that is locked by a boom gate.
The only way to get a key to the boom gate is if you own property, have a valid reason or need.
The edge of my property, borders state forest - and there are tracks everywhere. There are little to no fences.

So, I'm sighting in my rifle at my property and come across 3 older gents on 4 wheelers.
They advise me that I should not be shooting in state forests and take photos of my car, face, etc.
I advise them that I own the property, that i have installed signage every 200 metre's on the property, that they are on private property and they need to leave immediately.
Things then get a little heated verbally and they state they've been going to this area for 30 years and I'm wrong and im doing illegal things and then the bomb shell, one of them declares - "how dare I point a gun at them...."Obviously - I did not point a gun at them.
What had transpired is that I had left a rifle, pointed at my sighting in targets, without the bolt in, with no ammo present, kicked off to one side, whilst I walked to the target to measure a group - when the men came down the dirt path toward me, they drove their 4 wheelers toward the bench rest I had set up and they then noticed a rifle in a rest, pointing in their general direction...they did not know the bolt was out, etc. They traveled down this dirt road, despite signage being erected advising of possible shooting in the area and that it was private property....hmmmm.....The three men advised they would be calling the police and lodging a formal complaint.

My concern now - these 3 clowns call up the police and say, this guy(me) pointed a loaded weapon at them and (insert bulldust story here)....
I actually called the police and advised them what happened, they advised they would wait and see if the 3 clowns would make a complaint.

Is this how easy it is to lose your firearms licence - or am I protected by right of private property laws ? What's to stop these 3 clowns making up some bulldust story and sticking together ??

TT.
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CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 28’
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Re: Protecting yourself from idiots

Post by Ziad » 28 Jan 2019, 8:16 pm

Very good question mate. But you spoke to the cops first, so hopefully we don't hear in the media that a property owner in tassie lost his firearms license
Blame it on the phone auto correct
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Re: Protecting yourself from idiots

Post by Oldbloke » 28 Jan 2019, 8:20 pm

Might be that it was theie way of reacting to being caught red handed on private property.
Hunt safe, look after the bush & plug more pests. :thumbsup: Better to load on the mild side. :o The greatest invention in the history of man is beer. :drinks: "Often the written message doesn't convey all of the information"
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Re: Protecting yourself from idiots

Post by Supaduke » 28 Jan 2019, 9:34 pm

You did the right thing hopping on the front foot and contacting the cops first. Shows you have nothing to hide. Take some photos of your signage to show them if required. I doubt there will be any follow up.
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Re: Protecting yourself from idiots

Post by TassieTiger » 28 Jan 2019, 9:46 pm

My limited concern is if the wankers make an accurate report, and then perhaps I might be seen as negligent for leaving a firearm unattended (even tho I’m on private property with the firearm set up next to my vehicle) - it’s 150m from my setup area to my targets - but i never expected anyone to turn up...and with a locked boom gate limiting access - I’m wondering if that might be an issue.
If the 3 idiots make a formal, then I’m reasonably confident I can question their claims - they had nil rec registration, passed several signs and locked gates to access the land...

But the situation raises some questions;

Say your on your own shooting from a vehicle. You nail a rabbit at 250m and empty your gun / on safe and turn said vehicle off, leave your gun whilst you look for your kill. Then a trail bike approaches your car whilst your 1/4 klm away...finds what he’s always wanted but never been able to access....223 and he has no identifying marks on his bike....
Tikka .260 (custom)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 28’
Sauer 30-06
Howa 300 win mag.
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Re: Protecting yourself from idiots

Post by RoginaJack » 28 Jan 2019, 10:29 pm

Lets not get into hypertheticals, just deal with the facts.

Of, course you have taken notes - date and time, descriptions of trespassers, vehicle regos, make etc and what was said etc.

Did the police give you a reference number and you've noted down the Officers name etc.

As a long shot, did you take any photos of them?

I would be very surprised if they push it further as by what you have said above they could very well be the ones to have licences problems.

Do you have Legal Aid in Tassie.o or know a friendly solicitor, might be worth a chat to them...
Boom, Boom! Tikka, Tikka, Boom! Shoot first, video later.
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Re: Protecting yourself from idiots

Post by bigfellascott » 28 Jan 2019, 11:53 pm

You should have asked for their details and then rang the police in front of em and asked them to wait until they arrived! I'll be they f*** off real quick. :D
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Re: Protecting yourself from idiots

Post by wanneroo » 29 Jan 2019, 1:41 am

One of the laws of power is always provide the least information you need to. What you were doing here, there, this, that, we don't need to know, nor the cops need to know. All that is relevant is that these clowns were trespassing on your property and when informed of such you got a bunch of flak over it. I'd probably even delete this thread if you can or edit out a lot of it.

I ran into this where I live. People were used to using this property as like their own personal state park, walking, picnicing, hunting, camping, etc. I like my privacy so all that had to end unless people requested to hunt. I had to gate the road access, make it difficult for pedestrian access by letting vegetation and blackberry brambles grow up along the property line, post signage, set up trail cams and enforce it by patrolling the property line. Also I keep my phone with me at all time and film any encounters with trespassers. Since doing all of that I eliminated my issues.
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Re: Protecting yourself from idiots

Post by TassieTiger » 29 Jan 2019, 5:52 am

bigfellascott wrote:You should have asked for their details and then rang the police in front of em and asked them to wait until they arrived! I'll be they f*** off real quick. :D


Zero phone service in the area...and now I think about it, not sure the local cops would be able to access.
Tikka .260 (custom)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 28’
Sauer 30-06
Howa 300 win mag.
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Re: Protecting yourself from idiots

Post by straightshooter » 29 Jan 2019, 6:12 am

The only way to protect yourself was / is to report those people to the police asap for 4wd'ing on your property without permission, trespass, refusal to leave your property when asked to do so, threatening / aggressive behaviour and self endangerment while you were lawfully going about your business ie; sighting in your rifle.
Above all else you need to get in first to the police with your version of events.
I hope you have details such as rego numbers and descriptions etc.
"There is no expedient to which a man will not resort to avoid the real labor of thinking." Sir Joshua Reynolds
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Re: Protecting yourself from idiots

Post by Archie » 29 Jan 2019, 6:29 am

Re your hypothetical - hate to say it, sounds stupid, especially on your own land, but if someone nicks your rifle because you put it down and walked a hundred metres away, you’re probably screwed. Take it with you. Or, in a locked box affixed to the vehicle. But not unsecured when you are too far away to rush over and grab it.
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Re: Protecting yourself from idiots

Post by Oldbloke » 29 Jan 2019, 6:47 am

Archie wrote:Re your hypothetical - hate to say it, sounds stupid, especially on your own land, but if someone nicks your rifle because you put it down and walked a hundred metres away, you’re probably screwed. Take it with you. Or, in a locked box affixed to the vehicle. But not unsecured when you are too far away to rush over and grab it.


Unrealistic but probably correct if cops want to be difficult.
Hunt safe, look after the bush & plug more pests. :thumbsup: Better to load on the mild side. :o The greatest invention in the history of man is beer. :drinks: "Often the written message doesn't convey all of the information"
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Re: Protecting yourself from idiots

Post by TassieTiger » 29 Jan 2019, 7:07 am

straightshooter wrote:The only way to protect yourself was / is to report those people to the police asap for 4wd'ing on your property without permission, trespass, refusal to leave your property when asked to do so, threatening / aggressive behaviour and self endangerment while you were lawfully going about your business ie; sighting in your rifle.
Above all else you need to get in first to the police with your version of events.
I hope you have details such as rego numbers and descriptions etc.


No Rego on the 4 wheelers.
Because I was 150m away from my vehicle measuring a grouping - apparently, hypothetically stupid - I didn’t have my phone or anything to take pics...only had a tape measure.
Tikka .260 (custom)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 28’
Sauer 30-06
Howa 300 win mag.
TassieTiger
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Posts: 1649
Tasmania

Re: Protecting yourself from idiots

Post by Archie » 29 Jan 2019, 7:47 am

TassieTiger wrote:
straightshooter wrote:The only way to protect yourself was / is to report those people to the police asap for 4wd'ing on your property without permission, trespass, refusal to leave your property when asked to do so, threatening / aggressive behaviour and self endangerment while you were lawfully going about your business ie; sighting in your rifle.
Above all else you need to get in first to the police with your version of events.
I hope you have details such as rego numbers and descriptions etc.


No Rego on the 4 wheelers.
Because I was 150m away from my vehicle measuring a grouping - apparently, hypothetically stupid - I didn’t have my phone or anything to take pics...only had a tape measure.


To be clear, when I said "sounds stupid", what I meant was, the advice I'm about to give sounds stupid - because it's so ridiculous and over the top. Not that you were being stupid, I usually do the same on my land. But unfortunately, being over the top about security seems to be the only legal defence for firearms owners these days.
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Re: Protecting yourself from idiots

Post by straightshooter » 29 Jan 2019, 7:48 am

TassieTiger wrote:
straightshooter wrote:The only way to protect yourself was / is to report those people to the police asap for 4wd'ing on your property without permission, trespass, refusal to leave your property when asked to do so, threatening / aggressive behaviour and self endangerment while you were lawfully going about your business ie; sighting in your rifle.
Above all else you need to get in first to the police with your version of events.
I hope you have details such as rego numbers and descriptions etc.


No Rego on the 4 wheelers.
Because I was 150m away from my vehicle measuring a grouping - apparently, hypothetically stupid - I didn’t have my phone or anything to take pics...only had a tape measure.


No matter.
Go to the police with whatever description you have.
The important thing is to be the first to report to the police.
Also important is the exact way you you tell the truth, for example rewording your statement above:
Because I was 150m away from my vehicle alone on my isolated 300 ha property measuring a grouping etc.
That way the police will be investigating them (if they can be bothered).
The other way the police will investigate you.
Which would you prefer.
"There is no expedient to which a man will not resort to avoid the real labor of thinking." Sir Joshua Reynolds
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Re: Protecting yourself from idiots

Post by TassieTiger » 29 Jan 2019, 8:08 am

Archie wrote:
TassieTiger wrote:
straightshooter wrote:The only way to protect yourself was / is to report those people to the police asap for 4wd'ing on your property without permission, trespass, refusal to leave your property when asked to do so, threatening / aggressive behaviour and self endangerment while you were lawfully going about your business ie; sighting in your rifle.
Above all else you need to get in first to the police with your version of events.
I hope you have details such as rego numbers and descriptions etc.


No Rego on the 4 wheelers.
Because I was 150m away from my vehicle measuring a grouping - apparently, hypothetically stupid - I didn’t have my phone or anything to take pics...only had a tape measure.


To be clear, when I said "sounds stupid", what I meant was, the advice I'm about to give sounds stupid - because it's so ridiculous and over the top. Not that you were being stupid, I usually do the same on my land. But unfortunately, being over the top about security seems to be the only legal defence for firearms owners these days.


My apologies - I misread...bit edgy with this crap. I don’t feel like I’ve done anything wrong but when it comes to applying a substandard (my opinion) set of laws, in something of a hysterical world...well..,who bloody knows,
Tikka .260 (custom)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 28’
Sauer 30-06
Howa 300 win mag.
TassieTiger
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Tasmania

Re: Protecting yourself from idiots

Post by TassieTiger » 29 Jan 2019, 8:11 am

straightshooter wrote:
TassieTiger wrote:
straightshooter wrote:The only way to protect yourself was / is to report those people to the police asap for 4wd'ing on your property without permission, trespass, refusal to leave your property when asked to do so, threatening / aggressive behaviour and self endangerment while you were lawfully going about your business ie; sighting in your rifle.
Above all else you need to get in first to the police with your version of events.
I hope you have details such as rego numbers and descriptions etc.


No Rego on the 4 wheelers.
Because I was 150m away from my vehicle measuring a grouping - apparently, hypothetically stupid - I didn’t have my phone or anything to take pics...only had a tape measure.


No matter.
Go to the police with whatever description you have.
The important thing is to be the first to report to the police.
Also important is the exact way you you tell the truth, for example rewording your statement above:
Because I was 150m away from my vehicle alone on my isolated 300 ha property measuring a grouping etc.
That way the police will be investigating them (if they can be bothered).
The other way the police will investigate you.
Which would you prefer.



Yep. Agree. Done all this as soon as I had ph reception. Was very careful with my info - in fact, I didn’t mention being away from a firearm At all.
Tikka .260 (custom)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 28’
Sauer 30-06
Howa 300 win mag.
TassieTiger
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Tasmania

Re: Protecting yourself from idiots

Post by Gaznazdiak » 29 Jan 2019, 8:37 am

I know it sounds anal Tas, because I'm pretty isolated here, but except when I'm shooting from or around the house, even when I'm several kms into the property, I operate on range type rules.
Bolt only goes in once I'm positioned, ammo only goes in when I've ID'd a target, bolt out first as soon it's time to move and I carry the 6.5kg beasty with me and never leave it alone, the only time any are left unattended is when they're in the safe.

You're quite entitled to feel you were in the right, because you were, but mate, people are cvnts, look away for 2 seconds they'll have the kidneys out of you.

My advice, if your interested, is this.
You were in the right.
You were on your property.
You went straight to the police.
They were on unregistered vehicles, knowingly and willfully trespassing on land bearing signage warning them off and they endangered themselves by their trespassing, the fact that they then threatened you makes it, unless I'm mistaken( perhaps we have an ambulance chaser in our ranks who could clarify) aggravated criminal trespass.

Perhaps, and it's ridiculous that you should need to do so, but perhaps, some new signage stating that the area is seeded with infrared trailcams and any trespassers will be prosecuted might help.

One thing though, if the land is enclosed by a fence and locked gate, how did they get the bikes in? Did they damage any infrastructure like the fence or the gate?
If so, pictures and back to the cops.
fideles usque ad mortem
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