Rumour police seized firearms from unlocked cars at range

[Geeetrain]

I was out at Little River yesterday sighting in a rifle and one of the range officer said that police at another range near the NSW Vic border covertly went through the members cars in the carpark while they were shooting and managed to seized 26 unsecured firearms from members unlocked cars... seems a awful lot of rifles and unlocked cars
Can anyone confirm this...if this is true maybe these spot searches are scheduled at other ranges

[bladeracer]

I was out at Little River yesterday sighting in a rifle and one of the range officer said that police at another range near the NSW Vic border covertly went through the members cars in the carpark while they were shooting and managed to seized 26 unsecured firearms from members unlocked cars... seems a awful lot of rifles and unlocked cars
Can anyone confirm this...if this is true maybe these spot searches are scheduled at other ranges

Unless they had warrants that would've been illegal.

[Download]

I was out at Little River yesterday sighting in a rifle and one of the range officer said that police at another range near the NSW Vic border covertly went through the members cars in the carpark while they were shooting and managed to seized 26 unsecured firearms from members unlocked cars... seems a awful lot of rifles and unlocked cars
Can anyone confirm this...if this is true maybe these spot searches are scheduled at other ranges

Unless they had warrants that would've been illegal.

It's not

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-06/ ... es/9944598

[Rod_outbak]

If they were searching cars in the range car park (ie not on a public street/land), I'd question whether the searches are illegal.

[Kinda funny for someone to leave a big-arse bitey dog in the unlocked car, and see how happy Plod is about taking a peek without owners permission...]

[pomemax]

If they were searching cars in the range car park (ie not on a public street/land), I'd question whether the searches are illegal.

[Kinda funny for someone to leave a big-arse bitey dog in the unlocked car, and see how happy Plod is about taking a peek without owners permission...]

I would love to see this but thinking about it My luck i would get booked for leaving the dog in the car .
When I was doing IPSC training this very question came up the instructors said IT GETS DONE AT LEAST once a year at some range in NSW and most time you never hear about it poor blokes have to just cop it sweet , they left the firearms unattended in unlocked car police don,t need a warrant to check your car is locked, technical crime I call it tho

[Member-Deleted]

If the Police can wander around that range carpark, covertly, and take firearms out of unlocked cars then so could any joker off the street. It's not rocket science nor any great inconvenience. Lock it or lose it.

[bladeracer]

If they were searching cars in the range car park (ie not on a public street/land), I'd question whether the searches are illegal.

[Kinda funny for someone to leave a big-arse bitey dog in the unlocked car, and see how happy Plod is about taking a peek without owners permission...]

I would love to see this but thinking about it My luck i would get booked for leaving the dog in the car .
When I was doing IPSC training this very question came up the instructors said IT GETS DONE AT LEAST once a year at some range in NSW and most time you never hear about it poor blokes have to just cop it sweet , they left the firearms unattended in unlocked car police don,t need a warrant to check your car is locked, technical crime I call it tho

They don't need a warrant to see if your car is unlocked. They should have a warrant to search it though.

[bladeracer]

I was out at Little River yesterday sighting in a rifle and one of the range officer said that police at another range near the NSW Vic border covertly went through the members cars in the carpark while they were shooting and managed to seized 26 unsecured firearms from members unlocked cars... seems a awful lot of rifles and unlocked cars
Can anyone confirm this...if this is true maybe these spot searches are scheduled at other ranges

Unless they had warrants that would've been illegal.

It's not

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-06/ ... es/9944598

I don't see anything in that story saying it's legal for them to search a vehicle.
Yes, they can check if it's locked, unless it's on private property, but an unlocked vehicle does not give them search or seizure warrants.

[bladeracer]

If the Police can wander around that range carpark, covertly, and take firearms out of unlocked cars then so could any joker off the street. It's not rocket science nor any great inconvenience. Lock it or lose it.

Absolutely, and they should be charged the same as any other thief illegally taking your property.

[JSS]

I've got to say if someone leaves their guns in an unlocked car in the very car park a clever crook might target to try and find himself some firearms then they should have them seized.
.

[Member-Deleted]

[
Absolutely, and they should be charged the same as any other thief illegally taking your property.

like that will ever happen

i must have "trust issues" ... i'd just lock my bloody car

[bladeracer]

I've got to say if someone leaves their guns in an unlocked car in the very car park a clever crook might target to try and find himself some firearms then they should have them seized.
.

Agreed, provided Police have lawful reason for discovering those unsecured firearms.
How many hundreds of vehicles are they illegally searching that don't have any firearms in them?
When do they start searching vehicles parking at shopping centres for anything that might be criminal?

[Archie]

I’ve also heard of this happening at NSW ranges.

Leaving aside the fact that, ffs, if you’ve got a gun in your car and you’re not in or next to your car, it really should be locked - it’s an interesting one. The police do have the right to search cars (and people) without a warrant if they have a reasonable belief that the vehicle contains a weapon. Now, obviously that was intended for weapons people aren’t supposed to be carrying around in public. But, it’s reasonable to believe that a car at a gun range, may well have a gun in it, so I don’t know...

In addition, the litmus test of the whole licensing system is you have to take all reasonable steps to ensure firearms are kept secure and out of unlicensed hands, and no one is ever going to get away with not locking their car under that standard.

[Bill]

I was out at Little River yesterday sighting in a rifle and one of the range officer said that police at another range near the NSW Vic border covertly went through the members cars in the carpark while they were shooting and managed to seized 26 unsecured firearms from members unlocked cars... seems a awful lot of rifles and unlocked cars
Can anyone confirm this...if this is true maybe these spot searches are scheduled at other ranges

Unless they had warrants that would've been illegal.

It's not

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-06/ ... es/9944598

I don't see anything in that story saying it's legal for them to search a vehicle.
Yes, they can check if it's locked, unless it's on private property, but an unlocked vehicle does not give them search or seizure warrants.

In QLD if you have a winchester sticker on ya back window this gives a copper grounds to search ya car...

and if you fail to secure your firearms safely by not locking your car then you are a goose.

[JSS]

I've got to say if someone leaves their guns in an unlocked car in the very car park a clever crook might target to try and find himself some firearms then they should have them seized.
.

Agreed, provided Police have lawful reason for discovering those unsecured firearms.
How many hundreds of vehicles are they illegally searching that don't have any firearms in them?
When do they start searching vehicles parking at shopping centres for anything that might be criminal?

Completely agree, you would think the firearms would have to be in plain sight which would then give them a reasonable excuse to "check" the door was locked.

You also hear stories of the cops pulling dirty tricks, i guess that's why we've just got to take extra care to protect ourselves and our licences.

[No1Mk3]

G'day bladeracer,
Here in Vic, if the Police have reasonable (a thing defined only by them and upheld in the County Court numerous times) cause to suspect that an offence has, or is, being committed they may enter and search without obtaining a warrant first. It has been decided already in both Magistrates and County Court that being at a gun range is Prima Facie evidence to suspect that the person may have firearms. The word goes around the Clubs a couple of times a year, lock your car if you are away from it whether it has any firearms or ammo in it, as it is an offence to leave it unlocked and unattended. Any firearm found in an unlocked, unattended car is presumed to be unsecure and you will go a row for it. Another offence that is being checked is to have your Shooters Licence actually on you at all times, not in the car or in your gunbox. Cheers.

[Download]

I was out at Little River yesterday sighting in a rifle and one of the range officer said that police at another range near the NSW Vic border covertly went through the members cars in the carpark while they were shooting and managed to seized 26 unsecured firearms from members unlocked cars... seems a awful lot of rifles and unlocked cars
Can anyone confirm this...if this is true maybe these spot searches are scheduled at other ranges

Unless they had warrants that would've been illegal.

It's not

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-06/ ... es/9944598

I don't see anything in that story saying it's legal for them to search a vehicle.
Yes, they can check if it's locked, unless it's on private property, but an unlocked vehicle does not give them search or seizure warrants.

Police generally have broad powers to seize firearms. I don't know how it works in NSW, but in SA police can take a firearm for any reasonable cause. Assuming NSWs is similar, if they find a car is unlocked and can see a gun or a gun bag they'll likely have the legal power to take the guns because they're stored insecurely.

[Geeetrain]

My understanding is the police have the right to search our cars if we hold a gun licence (lve heard a gun lic comes up when they search our car rego plates) they have a right to search to ensure any firearms and ammo we are carrying are secured.

The SSAA range officer yesterday reminded us as a group to keep our cars locked after telling us about what happened at the other range

Most of the members who lost firearms eventually got the firearms back with a warning issued.

[Gaznazdiak]

As it stands, they can NOT search a vehicle without just cause, ie a gun in plain sight, if you are stupid enough to leave your firearm unattended in an unlocked vehicle whether at the range or your back paddock, you are probably too stupid to be trusted with one in the first place and have no grounds for complaint.
They are on us like stink on sh!t, we know this, if we ignore it we deserve the inevitable result.

[Sergeant Hartman]

Hmmm interesting the article takes about NSW. Vic laws are different.

I do know in vic that leaving keys in car is illegal. Have a car engineer running and you not in the car is illegal. Being drunk even if not driving is illegal. Having your passenger with a drink in their hands is illegal......

Lol you get the point. It's very likely that having guns in an unlocked vehicle is bad.

[No1_49er]

Agree that anybody at a range is crazy not to have their firearms locked in the vehicle., properly secured and not obvious to a passerby.
But, the stupidity of this law (failing to lock the vehicle, even if there is nothing in it, or in fact leaving the windows a little too far down, even if locked) is that you are not required by similar law to lock your dwelling place when you leave.
Stupid maybe, but not required.
"Go figure" is a saying that comes to mind.

[Gaznazdiak]

Yeah, but there's more of a market for stolen cars than stolen houses though, I would think

[deye243]

No I don't k ow where to find the link but in Vic as soon as you get a firearms licence the cops can search your house without a warrant....... and how do they get around it .....simple they knock on you're door and say we suspect you have an unregistered gun and here is the kicker you have to help them ......

[Blr243]

Rifles in unlocked un occupied cars are rifles that are unsecured and therefore the owner of the firearms is breaking the law. If they are then stolen from an unlocked car by a thief or a police officer doing his job tough s**t. LOCK YOUR VEHICLE

[madang55]

Why on earth would you leave your vehicle UNLOCKED!!! Numb Nuts!!!!!!

[Rod_outbak]

I dont think anyone would argue that leaving your car unlocked in a shooting range car-park, is freaking stupid.
Even MORE stupid, is the idea of leaving firearms in an unlocked car unattended; stupid of epic proportions.

But the methods the police are employing, sound to be violating peoples rights to privacy.

If a private citizen does the same thing; rummages through an unlocked car in a public car-park, and finds incriminating items (drugs etc), what do you reckon would be the chances that evidence is admissible in court?
Pretty freaking low; I expect.
So why do the police get a different set of rules to operate by, compared to Joe Public?
I read the original article, and even in a public street, I struggle with the justification/need for the police to search the vehicle.
NO idea how searching an unlocked car can be justified, when the search has no basis for actually preventing crime.
Even more worrying, is when the police start doing it, on what is effectively private land (range car-park).

THAT, is my concern about this story.
From my perspective, this is the police justifying being a law unto themselves.
I'm going to discuss this with my local copper, and seek his thoughts...

[madang55]

I cannot agree more and will be discussing it tonight with our Safety Course team.

[TassieTiger]

When I joined our local clay club, I’d take a couple boxes with me to shoot, lock the car and then return when I was empty.
Some of the older members weee laughing at me locking the car - some have me a decent ribbing over it...but I continued to lock it.

The firearms testing facility is held at the same place, so I asked the tester wtf - he said it was a public place, anyone can drive into the car park, so lock the vehicle or face potential consequences - some of the older guys were being just so complacent.

[trekin]

When I joined our local clay club, I’d take a couple boxes with me to shoot, lock the car and then return when I was empty.
Some of the older members weee laughing at me locking the car - some have me a decent ribbing over it...but I continued to lock it.

The firearms testing facility is held at the same place, so I asked the tester wtf - he said it was a public place, anyone can drive into the car park, so lock the vehicle or face potential consequences - some of the older guys were being just so complacent.

As this seems to only occur at "another range", and I personaly don't know anyone who has been pinged for this, one has to wonder if this is not a tactic used by the clubs to scare the complacency out of the likes of these people.

[zhuk]

I've heard a gun lic comes up when they search our car rego.

Indeed. And more than rego, we are all logged on the Crimtrak database which is accessible in every police car. I was questioned outside my place once when I was putting out the garbage (cops said they thought I was "acting suspiciously", and hey it was Redfern so I don't particularly blame them lol)

They looked up my name and bingo firearm licence holder came up on the track system.