Transporting ammunition home without a gun present

[Kumaabear]

I am trying to find out what my responsibilities are regarding transporting ammunition home from gun store when I don’t have a gun present in the vehicle.

The legislation only seems to state that:

“ammunition must be stored in a seperate locked container, not in the same space as a firearm”

Does this mean I am fine to have the ammo in my car on the way home as long as there is no firearm present in the car with me and it’s not visible? It won’t all fit in the glove box which is how I transport it (locked) when I have the gun with me.

[Supaduke]

Out of sight , out of mind is fine. Just have it in a bag or box, and preferably tucked away. Mainly so it's not obvious to a passer by or random copper giving you a breatho. If a copper is searching your vehicle you have much bigger problems.

[Bruiser64]

If you’re worried about it buy a lockable steel box (e.g a cash box from Bunnings) and lock the ammo in that. Put the box out of sight and the key on a lanyard and that should satisfy the requirements.

[bigfellascott]

If its only a couple of boxes of ammo lock it in ya glove box if it has a lock on it.

[Archie]

Buy a metal toolbox. Buy a padlock. If it’s too much ammo to fit in the glovebox, lock it up in the toolbox.

The way the NSW regulation is written is messy and makes it very unclear when you aren’t also carrying a firearm. I think it means you need to lock ammo up all the time. I know sensible people who disagree with that interpretation. Maybe they are correct. Do you really want to be arguing the toss with a magistrate because you didn’t spend fifty bucks though?

[Oldbloke]

$10 toolbox and a padlock from bunnings.

[southeast varmiter]

If you have no firearm present, your vehicle is a locked recepticle.

[TassieTiger]

Ammo is not locked away in LG shops and is sitting in the open in some rural places like Roberts. Its strange because a rifle is completely inert without ammo, but ammo can/has been misused without a rifle.

[marksman]

“ammunition must be stored in a seperate locked container, not in the same space as a firearm”

in Victoria this is a requirement when the ammunition is stored "at home"
its a good thing to keep the ammunition out of sight, never in your glovebox in Victoria and when you get home lock it up
in transit there is no storage requirements in Victoria, I'm not sure about NSW
people saying something is a good thing does not mean it is required by law

[Archie]

If you have no firearm present, your vehicle is a locked recepticle.

In Victoria it may be, in NSW it probably isn't. The storage guidelines specify exactly what an acceptable container is and I suspect they'd apply the same standards to any containers used for transport.

And with regard to ammo being in the open in gunshops, from the NSW police factsheet:

Ammunition kept by a firearms dealer, club armourer or the holder of a
Acquire and Supply Ammunition permit must be kept in a locked container,
locked display case or in a restricted area not accessible by the public

I'm guessing that last bit means "behind the counter".

[brett1868]

Archie has pretty much nailed it on all fronts but i'll add my view. In NSW ammo must be stored in a "locked container of a type approved by the commissioner" so with that in mind, do as others have suggested and get yourself a small toolbox that's lockable. Alternatively a MTM 50Cal plastic ammo can is reasonably priced, is weather proof and can be locked. Buy a pair of keyed alike 40mm padlocks from Bunnings to secure it and leave it in your vehicle.

[Gaznazdiak]

Or instead of wasting money pissing around with boxes and locks, just put it under the seat or somewhere else out of plain sight, doesn't seem all that hard to me.

If the passing plod or public can't see a box of ammo in view, there is no problem.

If some scumbag pinches your car, a locked box isn't going to stop them getting at the ammo anyway.

[zhuk]

If some scumbag pinches your car, a locked box isn't going to stop them getting at the ammo anyway.

Well obviously not. But you'd still be charged for not having secured ammo, if it was discovered after the theft (in NSW, where the OP lives)

[Gaznazdiak]

IF the scmbag car thief left it and didn't immediately swap it for a hit of meth, IF it was discovered afterwards, and IF the plod wanted to take the thief's word over yours that it wasn't secured, perhaps.
Lot of ifs.

[Kumaabear]

I think as many have suggested it may be best to just throw it in locked tool box, it wont fit in the glovebox

I honestly do not think that is technically required in NSW when transporting ammunition without a firearm in the vehicle and the ammo is out of sight.

"Ammunition must be stored in a separate locked container ie locked in the glove box or locked box in the cab, not with the firearms"

^The above is the only reference to category AB ammunition transport and it seems to imply that should there be no firearm present, then in the car out of sight would be perfectly acceptable. It would still be in a "separate locked container" (my car) to the firearm which isn't in the car.

But it seems exactly the thing that could be painful to try and convince a random copper of / fight the fine for, in the event that they decide they would like to search my car for whatever reason as unlikely as that is to happen.

The laws are so dumb, like whatever I have to follow them if i agree with them or not. But and least be bloody clear on what you expect from me

[deye243]

in transit there is no storage requirements in Victoria

OH yes there is and I know of a few that have been pinged for it and lost the lot .....

[marksman]

in transit there is no storage requirements in Victoria

OH yes there is and I know of a few that have been pinged for it and lost the lot .....

can you point me in the direction to where this requirement is in the vic firearms act, vic regs, the vic firearms law or amendments

a quote from the vic firearms act
"Cartridge ammunition should be stored separately from the firearms in a part of the vehicle not readily accessible by an unauthorised person. A lockable glove box would suffice provided the key to the glove box is kept securely by the holder of the firearm licence and cannot be accessed by persons unauthorised to possess ammunition or firearms.

"The advice above has been provided as a guide only and does not override storage requirements imposed by other regulatory frameworks. For example the storage requirements imposed under the Wildlife (Game) Regulations 2012 when hunting in a deer habitat."

www.police.vic.gov.au/content.asp?Document_ID=36210

I know it has been taught at the firearm safety courses in my area to have your ammo stored in a locked container in transit but it is not a requirement
but this was started by overly enthusiastic ssaa instructors doing the course , farkin city folk

[deye243]

Just on my may out dont bother looking in those regs as it isnt there when i get back i will post the info

[marksman]

there's nothing in the firearms act 96 that says you have to lock your ammo up in transit in Victoria deye243

the people you know that got pinged would have been something else other than unsecured ammo
section 126 of the Victorian firearms act 96 covers safe keeping of firearms and ammunition while being carried or used

(4) A person who is carrying or using cartridge ammunition must—

S. 126(4)(a) amended by No. 22/1998 s. 43(Sch. item 10).

(a) ensure that the cartridge ammunition is carried and used in a manner that is secure and is not dangerous; and


S. 126(4)(b) amended by No. 22/1998 s. 43(Sch. item 10).

(b) must take reasonable precautions to ensure that the cartridge ammunition is not lost or stolen.


Penalty: 60 penalty units or 12 months imprisonment.

http://www8.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/view ... /s126.html

as I said earlier the "you have to have your ammo in a locked container when travelling in Victoria" was started by ssaa course instructors in my area

I think each to there own but if I don't want to lock up my ammo in transit I wont but good for you guys that do

[deye243]

I told you it isnt in the firearms act ....... the jacks enforce the department of sparks and embers laws to you know .....
Now they have a grate little chestnut that says if you are in deer habitat and have a light fixed to the vehicle as I and thousands of others do and it ain't locked away you are done and lose the lot on the spot ....
And if you want to know how fuped that is just look at what is classified as deer habitat even Dandenong shire is and from there heading East to the nsw border is .
Even if I sitting in the main street in Bairnesdale in my 4x4 I will get done .......
And if you dont believe me have a talk to your dfo .
This is one of the this things that s**t me about having a licence before you get a car one you need to know the law but with a gun licence they just give it to you and it is a full time job to keep it .......

[deye243]

Oh yeah the blokes that have been done around here was for this reason and now other ...

[marksman]

here we go again
we have already had a very large thread on this subject where the delwp law has been discussed
delwp law does not say you have to lock your ammo up in deer habitat while in transit in Victoria
what it does say is that firearms and ammunition must not be easily accessible and that ammunition cannot be stored or locked up in the glove box of your car between sunset and sunrise

here is what I said in one of the posts and a link to the thread so you can get the idea

enoughgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=10377&start=36

what I said
"sorry mate but you are being corrected winton,
if you listen to Gwion you are going to loose your gear and have a bad day in court if you put your ammunition under the seat in deer habitat
between sunset and sunrise your firearms and ammunition cannot be easily accessible in deer habitat
in a ute you cannot store a firearm or ammunition in the cab, obviously a lock box would be nice but that is not a necessity
it's also worded that you cannot have your ammunition in the glovebox locked or not
you do not want to get done for unsecured firearm or ammo
remember dewlp law is not the same as vicpol,
I wonder if there is any more news about these guys
anyway its usually when the dewlp and police are doing roadblocks in an area because of poaching you hear these sort of story's"

so in Victoria you can drive home from the lgs with a sh!t ton of ammo in deer habitat as long as it is not easily accessible between sunset and sunrise
the thread has links for proof through out your mates were getting pinged because there firearms and ammo were easily accessible

if the delwp law has changed I am unaware of it and would appreciate it if you can put up a link to show it

[deye243]

my apologies

[Oldbloke]

I just lock ammo in a small cash box and use trigger locks. And always out of sight. I guess you could use a cable and lock through the action or trigger guard to a fixed point in cabin. Big boxes are a pain.

[marksman]

my apologies

no need deye243

it is like you said "This is one of the this things that s**t me about having a licence before you get a car one you need to know the law but with a gun licence they just give it to you and it is a full time job to keep it ......."

[Blr243]

This is a good topic simply because I have been concentrating on correct home and travel storage for firearms so much that I was not even aware of the legalities of taking home ammo that I had just purchased ....so I gotta clean up my act

[Oldbloke]

I just want to know how the faark are you supposed remember it all. Even if you get the right info.

Police should get together with the other departments and provide online a PDF booklet that covers everything. And keep it up dated every year. Then you can save it on your mobile or laptop.

But probably too simple for the government.

[deye243]

And just to clarify ...... I wend in to my lgs and on the counter were a couple of faxes and they were from the local dfo and they had the licence photo and details of the blokes that have had there licence confiscated , I asked him about it and he told me why they lost it and why and also said whenever the cops do take a licence all the lgs get a fax so the shops know not to sell them anything you need a licence for ....

[Sergeant Hartman]

Lol... dye243 actually you are wrong... they give you a handbook as part of driving license... but it doesn't cover many things esp obscure conditions. And definitely no one notifies people of new loose changes except some big ones. I will bet not many know you have to slow to 40kph with emergency lights flashing. And they they have s speed gun and you going at 60kph you will lose your license.... at 100kph (freeway,) they can take away your cat and do you for hoon driving... which is another load of crow law but I digress

[deye243]

How could anyone not know about the flashing lights bs it has been on the media So much I'm sick of hearing about it