Kangaroo Shooting

Questions about Victorian gun and ammunition laws. Victorian Firearms Act 1996.

Kangaroo Shooting

Post by madang55 » 11 Mar 2019, 1:43 am

I have read the National Codes of Practice to which I adhere.
However, I have had warm discussions with several different sources and the opinions differ.
When is it ok/legal to use a heart/lung shot when taking Kangaroos?
In Providing an answer anything different to "never", please quote reference.
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Re: Kangaroo Shooting

Post by No1Mk3 » 11 Mar 2019, 4:43 am

G'day madang55,
Those you have "warmly" discussed this matter with, who do not believe they must adhere strictly to the Code, should be shown a copy of the Code. If they still dissent, then ignore such folk in future and continue doing what you already do, whilst waiting to read about the others in the newspaper one day, If they say " a Code of Practice is not actually Law", then suggest they look at the number of very successful prosecutions by Worksafe Vic of companies who have injured workers through non-compliance with some Code, Cheers.
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Re: Kangaroo Shooting

Post by Daddybang » 11 Mar 2019, 7:00 am

It's ok to heart/lung shoot a roo ......when ya no longer give a f@#k about ya license! :thumbsup: :drinks:
This hard living ain't as easy as it used to be!!!
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Re: Kangaroo Shooting

Post by Ziad » 11 Mar 2019, 9:52 am

But if I am using a 338lap or 50cal...... can I still shoot in heart?

And for that matter if anyone shot a kangaroo with a 105mm how can they tell if the shell hit the head or the body :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:
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Re: Kangaroo Shooting

Post by Gaznazdiak » 11 Mar 2019, 10:24 am

Ziad wrote:But if I am using a 338lap or 50cal...... can I still shoot in heart?

And for that matter if anyone shot a kangaroo with a 105mm how can they tell if the shell hit the head or the body :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:



Not a silly question Ziad, it's something I have wondered about. Then again that doesn't preclude silliness I suppose :D

I don't shoot any natives, except Joe Blake if he ventures into the yard, but I have wondered about larger calibres.
If a 308 can dispatch a hard skinned critter like a pig, surely it would take a thin skinned skippy out humanely.

Not being a shooter of roos, I haven't read the relevant literature, can someone more knowledgeable explain the logic for us plebians?
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Re: Kangaroo Shooting

Post by Daddybang » 11 Mar 2019, 10:32 am

Gaznazdiak wrote:
Ziad wrote:But if I am using a 338lap or 50cal...... can I still shoot in heart?

And for that matter if anyone shot a kangaroo with a 105mm how can they tell if the shell hit the head or the body :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:



Not a silly question Ziad, it's something I have wondered about. Then again that doesn't preclude silliness I suppose :D

I don't shoot any natives, except Joe Blake if he ventures into the yard, but I have wondered about larger calibres.
If a 308 can dispatch a hard skinned critter like a pig, surely it would take a thin skinned skippy out humanely.

Not being a shooter of roos, I haven't read the relevant literature, can someone more knowledgeable explain the logic for us plebians?



Very easy to explain. ..there's no logic behind it . Probably put together by a bunch of uni grads. With zero experience in the matter who know because they read the only humane kill is destruction of the brain. Maybe they are walking dead fans :unknown: :lol: :drinks:
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Re: Kangaroo Shooting

Post by Gaznazdiak » 11 Mar 2019, 10:36 am

Thanks DB, that's about what I thought.
Regulations made up by someone with a high IQ and no common sense.
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Re: Kangaroo Shooting

Post by CrackThump » 11 Mar 2019, 11:04 am

Errrmmm... indulge me here please ( make me feel better ) .

Lets say you have a less experienced hunter still learning the ropes on live targets. This person does have the animals welfare at heart and a healthy desire to keep his license, abides by the hunting code of practice.

However, in the real world, aiming for the headshot he misses due to breeze or flinch or the animal moving and headshot turns into a shoulder shot. His first action is to close on the animal and deliver a followup shot to finish poor skip quickly.

My understanding from what i read is that this is appropriate action. Or am I wrong and it means "go directly to jail, do not pass the gunstore and do not ollect $200) .?
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Re: Kangaroo Shooting

Post by Madang185 » 11 Mar 2019, 2:33 pm

The code typically ignores reality, it insists on head shots.
Persdoanlly I know a couple of very experience professionals, they both say the same.
The chest shot contains heart, lungs, liver and the spine beyond
Any proper projectile placed in this area will almost certain;y be instantly fatal.
To me it is obvious that the code ignores reality by those who know what they are talking about
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Re: Kangaroo Shooting

Post by Daddybang » 11 Mar 2019, 3:06 pm

Madang185 wrote:The code typically ignores reality, it insists on head shots.
Persdoanlly I know a couple of very experience professionals, they both say the same.
The chest shot contains heart, lungs, liver and the spine beyond
Any proper projectile placed in this area will almost certain;y be instantly fatal.
To me it is obvious that the code ignores reality by those who know what they are talking about


Unfortunately when the code was produced like most of our national codes they were put together without consulting those that have actual hands on experience :drinks:
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Re: Kangaroo Shooting

Post by madang55 » 11 Mar 2019, 3:07 pm

Thanks all. It confirms my thoughts. We don't have a choice but to keep to the rules. Given that the rules need re-visiting with the involvement of real world shooters, we could be waiting for a while.
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Re: Kangaroo Shooting

Post by Daddybang » 11 Mar 2019, 3:15 pm

madang55 wrote:Thanks all. It confirms my thoughts. We don't have a choice but to keep to the rules.


Yep we can bitch about it but the rules are what they are and we have to follow them.
(Which sux :lol: ) :drinks:
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Re: Kangaroo Shooting

Post by Bilko » 11 Mar 2019, 6:55 pm

CrackThump wrote:Errrmmm... indulge me here please ( make me feel better ) .

Lets say you have a less experienced hunter still learning the ropes on live targets. This person does have the animals welfare at heart and a healthy desire to keep his license, abides by the hunting code of practice.

However, in the real world, aiming for the headshot he misses due to breeze or flinch or the animal moving and headshot turns into a shoulder shot. His first action is to close on the animal and deliver a followup shot to finish poor skip quickly.

My understanding from what i read is that this is appropriate action. Or am I wrong and it means "go directly to jail, do not pass the gunstore and do not ollect $200) .?



Crack I would have to do some serious research on it, but..
the onus is on the Prosecution to establish its case beyond reasonable doubt. Exhibit 1, a dead roo with a hole in its chest and another (later one) in its head would appear to establish its case. However most criminal jurisdictions have something that makes accident a defence to a charge. So the later hole in the head could establish the defence case that skippy failed to oblige and jumped at the wrong moment, you then seeing the distressed roo immediately put it out of its misery. Further however, and this is the “beauty” of the law, is that for some offences, the defence of accident is specifically excluded.

So may depend on exactly which state skippy was in when he died. :unknown:
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Re: Kangaroo Shooting

Post by duncan61 » 11 Mar 2019, 7:21 pm

The minimum specifications for firearms and ammunition are set out in Part A or B of Schedule1. The following conditions apply:
(i) Injured animals must be killed by a method that will achieve a rapid and humane death, preferably by a shot to the brain (see Schedule 2).
(ii) Under circumstances where a shot to the brain of an injured animal is impractical or unsafe, a shot to the heart is permissible (see Schedule 3).
(iii) In circumstances where, for dispatch of an injured kangaroo or wallaby, a shot to either the brain or heart is impractical or unsafe (such as when the animal is moving but not able to stand), a heavy blow to the base of the skull with sufficient force to destroy the brain (see Schedule 2) is permissible
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Re: Kangaroo Shooting

Post by duncan61 » 11 Mar 2019, 7:29 pm

To ensure a humane kill, a suitably hard and heavy blunt instrument must be used.
(iv) If the kangaroo or wallaby that is shot is female then any dependent young at foot must be shot as soon as possible to avoid dispersal, in accordance with the methods outlined in Section 5.
(v) Once a female kangaroo or wallaby has been killed then its pouch must be thoroughly examined and any pouch young must be euthanased in accordance with the methods outlined in Section 5.
5. EUTHANASING POUCH YOUNG AND YOUNG AT FOOT
All target female kangaroos and wallabies, including injured and sick animals, must be thoroughly examined for pouch young. If a pouch young or young at foot is present, euthanasia must be carried out, and in accordance with the methods outlined below. These measures are to prevent the inhumane death of young that cannot survive on their own. 5.1 Conditions
The following conditions apply.
(i) Where euthanasia is carried out using a blow to the head, the blow must be delivered with force sufficient to crush the skull and destroy the brain. The blow should be delivered with a suitably hard and heavy blunt instrument. The shooter must confirm that there has been lethal damage to the brain and that the animal is dead.
(ii) Immediately after euthanasia, the shooter is required to examine each animal to confirm death. The shooter must check that there is no body movement, breathing and heart beat to indicate that the animal is alive. The shooter must also check that there is no corneal reflex (where this is observable).
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Re: Kangaroo Shooting

Post by Bruiser64 » 12 Mar 2019, 12:07 am

My reading of the Code of Practise is as per Duncan61 above. The code is mandated as the standard here in WA as per the DPAW website. It clearlyrequires a head shot with a minimum of a 204 with a 40 grain pill. The shot distance can’t exceed 200 metres either. I would recommend that people read this Senate report on Roo shooting.

https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Bu ... report/c09

It actually gives a good explanation for the reasons behind the Code of Practice. My take on it is that the Federal and State parliaments are actually supportive of the kangaroo industry and the need for shooting as a control measure. The problem is that there are a number of organisations and individuals who object to any kind of a kangaroo industry and to lethal control measures. To answer these objections and to ensure community support there is the need to clearly mandate strict measures about how the shooting is to be done. In this way the community (most of whom aren’t shooters), are satisfied the industry is humane. So even though most experienced shooters understand a heart/lung shot is humane and a higher percentage shot, this eludes the antis and would be used as ammunition against the industry.

Which is why when I shoot roos I comply with the code of practice. I try to get as close as I can and make a headshot. Basically if we want to protect our sport we need to not only do the right thing we need to be seen to be doing the right thing. In the case of the Code of Practice the law is actually on our side when we adhere to it.
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Re: Kangaroo Shooting

Post by duncan61 » 13 Mar 2019, 1:50 am

I agree and you have worded it better than I could.I was in the industry when doing the 80mm circle with 5 consecutive shots and doing the hygiene meat course was made compulsory to represent us in a better light to the public.Most of the people on the course were farmers who culled their own land for control and extra pennies
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Re: Kangaroo Shooting

Post by YoungBuck » 14 Mar 2019, 10:13 am

I do some roo culling for a farmer. Personally I only take headshots on them, but I seem to recall one of the pages in the paperwork in my glove box with a target on a drawn roo on the head and chest, on both front and side drawings. I can check it tonight.
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