And just like that all my guns were seized by police

[brett1868]

Ah, so when the Greens kick up a fuss about how "someone" has x number of firearms in a postcode, we know who they're talking about.

Still, this f***s me off. It's ridiculous that you report a crime against you and you get your guns taken.

I have Cat A, B, G & H + High Cal - The G is "Collectors" and excludes me from the stats on firearms in the community used by GCA. If you want to hide the number of firearms you have from the anti's then get a collectors license

The logic of the police is that they don't want you as the victim to take matters into your own hands so all parties lose their firearms. In my case it was a blood relative so it's a clear case of domestic violence even if i'd had no contact in 10yrs and no idea of where he lived. I have no idea how they justified seizing 2freeq's firearms AND suspending his license as it doesn't fit the SOP they have on domestic violence. He's not related, there's been no physical confrontation and no charges laid. I'd be seeking a meeting with the regional commander to get an explanation as to how they can justify "Not in the public interest" when no confrontation has taken place.

[wanneroo]

I'd get a better solicitor and hit the cops hard back in the face with it.

I'd also hit back hard on the child protection authorities on how this individual has your information.

I'd also contact your state representative in government over this. I'd find their office and try to talk to them directly.

Next after exhausting all those avenues I'd go right to the media and make more noise.

[Kel]

Wow talk about shooting the messenger. I wonder if that was an overzealous application of the the discretionary options available under the law or a mandated requirement to seize (which is clearly unfair under the circumstances you describe). If a warrant is required I would hope that the signatory requires some sound /justifiable reasoning as to why the firearms should be seized. In hindsight perhaps it would have been wise to request a warrant and seek legal advice.

[Jon79]

When my daughter did her firearms safety course at the local gun shop they mentioned that if you ever think anything has happened where the cops could come knocking that the best thing to do is bring your guns straight down to the shop for storage, Apparently the guns can be stored there instead of being seized by the police

[Patriot]

The fact that private property can be seized, and the owner denied due process is astonishing. The fact that Australian citizens have no problem with this is even more astounding.

[sungazer]

They can be stored at a LGS but check on the fees for doing so. They range from Free from good bloke type stores to very quickly being more than the guns are worth.

[TassieTiger]

Not sure if op can really be bothered seeking legal etc now - 28 days will pass and hopefully all returns are done without further issue...it’s clearly been a harrowing experience already and is probably wondering now if the juice will be worth the squeeze in relation to seeking further legal...
That being said - perhaps a few of us should contact the below and call them out on situations like the one that has transpired here? I don’t want to bring anymore focus on the op tho - just looking to help if possible ?

6AC3B853-B9D2-4CC1-8AB5-3D6AAC8A14BC.jpeg (139.76 KiB) Viewed 6433 times

[southeast varmiter]

Glad it worked out. But you got played. What the police did was illegal.
Unless a warrant is issued, they cannot sieze guns, second the threat of leaving police behind while they went off to get a warrant is also illegal.
Unless you were cautioned and placed under arrest, you are free to pack your guns in a car and drive off to gun store for storage.
Police cannot detain you without placing you under arrest.
You have a case there.

[Sonnyjim]

I would have been taking that refusal offer and contacting a lawyer immediately, right in front of said 3 remaining police.

There is no guarantee that the promise of returning with a warrant would have even happened, police often have no idea what the law is in such niche areas but you would expect that the guy signing warrants may well know whats allowed.

I personally think us Australians are far too quick to forfeit our rights in the face of a polite police requests and veiled threats and the police know and often count on it.

If they were coming there to seize the firearms then they should have brought a warrant, if they don't have one with them when they rock up either they are incompetent or they were not sure if a warrant would be granted and were happy to try and intimidate you into surrendering your property, perhaps both.

I would not be surprised if they have been logged in the system as voluntarily surrendered or something along those lines rather than seized for X reason.

Rocking up without a warrant to seize something, then having to "go get one" just makes no sense whatsoever.

What a joke

mate i think your absolutely spot on here, looks like they weren't sure they'd get a warrant and turned on the intimidation. After reading this i would always as politely and respectfully as possible refuse until a warrant is placed. Surely it cannot be standard practice as this would make a huge disinterest for firearm owner to make formal complaints about legal matters. if this is the standard practice i believe it needs to change.

[Download]

Glad it worked out. But you got played. What the police did was illegal.
Unless a warrant is issued, they cannot sieze guns, second the threat of leaving police behind while they went off to get a warrant is also illegal.
Unless you were cautioned and placed under arrest, you are free to pack your guns in a car and drive off to gun store for storage.
Police cannot detain you without placing you under arrest.
You have a case there.

That's not true, most states give wide reaching powers to police to seize firearms.

[Sergeant Hartman]

s**t this is sad mate. Hopefully in 28 days you get your license and guns back. But as others have said 2 things

How did he get your number, gross inaction of privacy.

And why did they suspend your license, and does that mean you have to reapply to get it back.

[Nigel]

My gear was seized under section 82 & 83 of the LEPRA Act part 6.

I just had a look and this part of the Law Enforcement (Powers and Responsibilities) Act 2002 (NSW).

The important lessons here are:

1) Do not invite the police to enter your premises

Section 82 and 83 cover entry into premises in situations where the police have domestic violence related suspicions. Section 82 covers entry by invitation and section 83 covers entry under warrant. The threshold tests for section 83 to apply are stricter than section 82. To get the warrant they need to have a reasonable suspicion that it is necessary to enter the premises to prevent an act of domestic violence. I can't understand how this test would have been passed in either of these cases.
Once the police enter your premises pursuant to either of these sections, they are required by section 85 to seize all firearms in the premises.

2) If you report threats of domestic violence to the police, assume that any firearms in your home will be seized

In 2Freeq's case, if the police based their seizure on section 82, they may have acted improperly. Based on the facts reported, the violence threatened would be unlikely to fit within the definition of 'domestic violence' due to fact that there was no 'domestic relationship' between the threatener and the victim of the threat.

[Empie]

And who pays for this “service” for the police to collect, store, & return the firearms? The firearms owners of course as a component of their licence application & renewal fees while those who start these fiascos suffers no cost!

[TassieTiger]

^ exactly - and exactly the problem as who here who has now read this thread - on this forum, is going to report anything knowing what the implications might be?

[southeast varmiter]

You are absolutely incorrect. That’s why this situation ended the way it did.

Glad it worked out. But you got played. What the police did was illegal.
Unless a warrant is issued, they cannot sieze guns, second the threat of leaving police behind while they went off to get a warrant is also illegal.
Unless you were cautioned and placed under arrest, you are free to pack your guns in a car and drive off to gun store for storage.
Police cannot detain you without placing you under arrest.
You have a case there.

That's not true, most states give wide reaching powers to police to seize firearms.

[Sergeant Hartman]

Well NSW just going to pass laws for a 2 year trial,
where if you have a drug conviction in the last 10 years cops do not need a warrant to search your house

[JSS]

Well NSW just going to pass laws for a 2 year trial,
where if you have a drug conviction in the last 10 years cops do not need a warrant to search your house

I find it pretty hard to believe that one will get passed, not even for the trail period. It sounds like a bit of "tough on crime" pre election BS.
It's far too open to abuse and misuse to ever get through.

[Gaznazdiak]

Well NSW just going to pass laws for a 2 year trial,
where if you have a drug conviction in the last 10 years cops do not need a warrant to search your house

I find it pretty hard to believe that one will get passed, not even for the trail period. It sounds like a bit of "tough on crime" pre election BS.
It's far too open to abuse and misuse to ever get through.

The appearance regulations had no trouble getting through, if they can get bullsh!t like that to stand up, who knows what they can get away with?

[JSS]

Well NSW just going to pass laws for a 2 year trial,
where if you have a drug conviction in the last 10 years cops do not need a warrant to search your house

I find it pretty hard to believe that one will get passed, not even for the trail period. It sounds like a bit of "tough on crime" pre election BS.
It's far too open to abuse and misuse to ever get through.

The appearance regulations had no trouble getting through, if they can get bullsh!t like that to stand up, who knows what they can get away with?

Yes but that applies to those nasty evil guns. This new one is infringing on the rights of those poor innocent helpless druggies.

It will also be a stepping stone to open the gate, if the drug one gets passed, it will be followed by any crime in the past 10 years, then it will be any infringement at all, and last of all the need for a warrant being no longer needed at all. Checkmate we're all farked!!
It may sound like i have my tin foil hat on but that's the way it works, they use baby steps to get to their end game.

[Gaznazdiak]

No foil hat needed to have a healthy mistrust of political knee-jerkers JSS.

That's exactly how they look at things.

I heard an interview last night with an NZ anti-gun panic merchant calling for a total ban on all guns from civilian hands. His claim that the only thing guns are good for is killing people is a perfect example of how hyperbolic they will get to push their agenda.

[Patriot]

Well NSW just going to pass laws for a 2 year trial,
where if you have a drug conviction in the last 10 years cops do not need a warrant to search your house

It’s not the elected officials who come up with this stuff. It is the unelected public officials, in this case the police. The police advise the the minister on what they want, and what they want is total control of the citizenry. Right now the NZ police will be advising the government over there that ordinary citizens should not have access to semi auto firearms, but will the police be willing to give up their own hoarde of these guns? Hell no, they’re probably saying we need more of them and more coppers trained in there use. It’s all about control.

[Sergeant Hartman]

Funny you say that, vic police are getting a few hundred semi auto rifles for specially trained general duty cops.

I think nothing looks more cooler than police with ak47 or m5 on every intersection

[2freeq]

to answer the question about how he got my contact info, It was given to him as part of a Family and Community Services decision my wife and I are to supervise contact between him and his kids. So he needs to contact me if he is unable to attend and i need to contact him to make sure he is going to show up so we dont have a no show. It has been like this for a couple of years now and there hasnt been a problem until he started on the heavy drugs again.

Because i am the carer of his kids is the reason it falls under the "domestic" label because its form of extended family. i tried to question if this was a personal violence matter but it's not.

I had no idea they were seizing my guns when i invited the cops into my home, Refusing to comply would be a wasted effort if they are going to get a warrant and take them anyway. By actually complying and listening to them, i ended up having the licensing officers personally thanking me for not giving them a hard time and hopefully this favour is returned when i apply to get my guns back and they dont give me a hard time.

I was informed by a solicitor this is standard practice in NSW and the cops acted well within their rights. He also advised me to learn from this and tell them nothing in the future which i believe is the lesson to be learnt here.

[rossfrb]

From https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/__data/as ... olence.pdf
Page 46 under section "Searching for and seizing firearms and other weapons" paragraph 3
"Regardless of whether the firearm was used or not in the act of a domestic violence offence, police must seize any firearms that either party involved in the incident has access to. "

Paragraph 1 includes "...If a domestic violence offence is being, may have recently been committed or is imminent" So it may be that the police were following SOP.

[Patriot]

Well NSW just going to pass laws for a 2 year trial,
where if you have a drug conviction in the last 10 years cops do not need a warrant to search your house

‘We don’t need a bill of rights in Australia, our parliamentary system protects us’ I remember a politician saying this once. This is the biggest infringement on individual liberty that I can remember in Australia. Why do we as Australians continue to tolerate it. People in Australia bag the USA,but this can’t happen there,see below

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things ...

4 th Amendment

[zhuk]

Well NSW just going to pass laws for a 2 year trial,
where if you have a drug conviction in the last 10 years cops do not need a warrant to search your house

‘We don’t need a bill of rights in Australia, our parliamentary system protects us’ I remember a politician saying this once. This is the biggest infringement on individual liberty that I can remember in Australia. Why do we as Australians continue to tolerate it. People in Australia bag the USA,but this can’t happen there,see below

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things ...

4 th Amendment

Although the Patriot Act does kinda do away with that, to a certain extent.

Australians are politically apathetic; it makes sense to me in a deeply unconscious historical context where the jailed had no power over their jailers, but could only complain and take the piss between themselves. Our govts still have this mindset of convict - warden imo and consider the population must be told what is good for them, as your conversation demonstrated. If this was France, people would be burning down arrondisements lol

[TassieTiger]

In the context of horrible mass shootings...I think the USA leads the way to a point beyond sanity.
I sleep better knowing that my kids are 99.9999% safe at school - that might be a little lower if I lived in the USA...

[No1_49er]

I appreciate that some people do not like Wikipedia too much, but some of the information that is available there is from official sources. Dispute them if you must.
Here are a couple of links to some of the worlds worst massacres, and school massacres.
Note that the very worst were committed by the State, or that those in schools are not necessarily worse in the US.
You can adjust the column filters in these links to best suit your search criteria.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_e ... _massacres
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_s ... death_toll

[bladeracer]

In the context of horrible mass shootings...I think the USA leads the way to a point beyond sanity.
I sleep better knowing that my kids are 99.9999% safe at school - that might be a little lower if I lived in the USA...

The US has a problem with morality, not guns. Take away all their guns and they'd still be murdering each other en-masse.

But the actual overall murder rates aren't exactly ridiculous considering the size of their population. The murder rates in very specific enclaves are horrendous, but again, is not driven by firearms. If they simply walled these areas off and allowed them to wipe themselves out the problem would quickly resolve itself.

[Gaznazdiak]

In the context of horrible mass shootings...I think the USA leads the way to a point beyond sanity.
I sleep better knowing that my kids are 99.9999% safe at school - that might be a little lower if I lived in the USA...

The US has a problem with morality, not guns. Take away all their guns and they'd still be murdering each other en-masse.

But the actual overall murder rates aren't exactly ridiculous considering the size of their population. The murder rates in very specific enclaves are horrendous, but again, is not driven by firearms. If they simply walled these areas off and allowed them to wipe themselves out the problem would quickly resolve itself.

There is a strange duality in the morality in the US.
There is a veritable cornucopia of violence on tv and film, but they pixelate out butt cracks and beep out the word goddamn.