Registration of Unregistered Firearm

Questions about New South Wales gun and ammunition laws. NSW Firearms Act 1996.

Registration of Unregistered Firearm

Post by Shrapnel 118 » 30 Apr 2019, 8:58 pm

Hello, so I was wondering what the deal is with registering a rifle if I theoretically found a unregistered firearm from 30+ years ago in a deceased family members care. I have read multiple different things from police seizing the weapon to just going to a gun dealer and getting a PTA and registering it to my license with no drama, so what is correct? Thanks.
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Re: Registration of Unregistered Firearm

Post by BBJ » 01 May 2019, 12:55 pm

Hey Shrap,

It's not a crime to find a firearm. It happens with some frequency in the circumstance you have outlined, someone finds someone's old rifle that's been locked in the attic for 50 years.

It is to knowingly hang onto an unregistered one though.

Take it to a dealer ASAP (today). They will send the details to FAR and get it registered on their books.

You do your PTA and all the normal process, and once it's good to go they transfer it to your name like a normal transfer.

Or if you don't want it they will sell or dispose of it.

If you take it to the Police I believe your only option is to unconditionally surrender it.

Take it to your dealer.
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Re: Registration of Unregistered Firearm

Post by Chappo » 01 May 2019, 2:06 pm

Mate I’m pretty sure your only option in NSW is to surrender it to the police.

You could once take it to a dealer and have it registered under your license or use an amnesty to do the same but the laws have changed. They could change again but I think that’s where you stand at the moment.

Have a talk with your dealer and let us know what they say.
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Re: Registration of Unregistered Firearm

Post by Member-Deleted » 01 May 2019, 3:11 pm

G'day Shrapnel mate i'm in QLD not to sure of your states laws but anyway I found myself in a similar situation a bloke found an old 303 in his shed after being left it all in a will so he found this rifle it was unregistered he asked me if I wanted it so I took it to my local police and told them what I was going to do with it so I was pointed in the direction of the gun shop they done a notification of the rifle I think it's just a check to see if it was stolen then they set up a PTA for that rifle they keep the rifle until your licence or addition to your licence arrives you take that in and collect your newly acquired rifle it was very simple just a wait for paper work hope this can help
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Re: Registration of Unregistered Firearm

Post by GojiraSteve » 01 May 2019, 3:35 pm

Chappo wrote:Mate I’m pretty sure your only option in NSW is to surrender it to the police.

You could once take it to a dealer and have it registered under your license or use an amnesty to do the same but the laws have changed.
They could change again but I think that’s where you stand at the moment.


Have a talk with your dealer and let us know what they say.


Can anyone else corroborate this? Seems at odds with the published info from the registry...

https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/__data/as ... ration.pdf

(second page, middle column, 4th paragraph)

What if I am in possession of an
unregistered firearm?
If you are in possession of an
unregistered firearm you MUST
immediately:
* Surrender the firearm to NSW Police
or
* Take it to a licensed Firearms Dealer
who will arrange for the registration
of the firearm.
The Firearms Dealer will be required to
retain possession of the firearm until
the person is able to produce a current
firearms licence and issued Permit to
Acquire, at which time the dealer will
complete the 'Notice of Purchase' and
send this to the Firearms Registry
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Re: Registration of Unregistered Firearm

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 01 May 2019, 3:50 pm

And that's is why you shouldn't ask legal questions on online forums. Plus every state usually had different processes.

Best is ring up a local dealer or your state police firearm registry as been mentioned and just all the question from them
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Re: Registration of Unregistered Firearm

Post by No1_49er » 01 May 2019, 4:08 pm

GojiraSteve wrote:
Chappo wrote:Mate I’m pretty sure your only option in NSW is to surrender it to the police.
You could once take it to a dealer and have it registered under your license or use an amnesty to do the same but the laws have changed.
They could change again but I think that’s where you stand at the moment.
Have a talk with your dealer and let us know what they say.

Can anyone else corroborate this? Seems at odds with the published info from the registry...

https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/__data/as ... ration.pdf
(second page, middle column, 4th paragraph)

What if I am in possession of an unregistered firearm?
If you are in possession of an unregistered firearm you MUST immediately:
* Surrender the firearm to NSW Police
or
* Take it to a licensed Firearms Dealer who will arrange for the registration of the firearm.
The Firearms Dealer will be required to retain possession of the firearm until the person is able to produce a current firearms licence and issued Permit to
Acquire, at which time the dealer will complete the 'Notice of Purchase' and send this to the Firearms Registry


It appears to be that Chappo is relying on some old memory cells. :lol:

I don't see any need for corroboration.

You can either surrender it :thumbsdown: , OR, if you want is as a keeper, do exactly as they say. Take it to your dealer who will make it lawful by including it in the NSW Registry, and you apply for your PTA :thumbsup:

Easy, either way :)
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Re: Registration of Unregistered Firearm

Post by No1_49er » 01 May 2019, 4:12 pm

Ziad wrote:And that's is why you shouldn't ask legal questions on online forums. Plus every state usually had different processes.

Best is ring up a local dealer or your state police firearm registry as been mentioned and just all the question from them


The text in the quote above is taken directly from the NSW document, and OP is asking a NSW question.

I would think that phoning registry will provide a reiteration of said document.

It is what it is.
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Re: Registration of Unregistered Firearm

Post by VICHunter » 01 May 2019, 4:45 pm

GojiraSteve wrote:Can anyone else corroborate this? Seems at odds with the published info from the registry...


No offence to Chappo, but why are you seeking to confirm his word is right over what's published by Firearms Registry?

Seems like looking for a problem where there isn't one, if you ask me.

FAR says take it to a dealer and get it registered. So OP, take it to a dealer and get it registered.

Easy :drinks:
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Re: Registration of Unregistered Firearm

Post by GojiraSteve » 01 May 2019, 4:45 pm

No1_49er wrote:
Ziad wrote:And that's is why you shouldn't ask legal questions on online forums. Plus every state usually had different processes.

Best is ring up a local dealer or your state police firearm registry as been mentioned and just all the question from them

The text in the quote above is taken directly from the NSW document, and OP is asking a NSW question.
I would think that phoning registry will provide a reiteration of said document.
It is what it is.


I dunno 49er. On the you-will-come-unstuck scale I reckon relying on the FAR's website being up to date is only a close second to relying on legal advice provided on internet forums.

I'd be talking to my LGS. He's the only one in the equation who's livelihood is dependent on getting the answer correct.
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Re: Registration of Unregistered Firearm

Post by pomemax » 01 May 2019, 4:50 pm

Why do people come on a forum and ask questions like this as their first post not Hi or anything .If he /she has a licence he should know this information or how to find out the right information .You watch another story in the papers about finding some old firearms
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Re: Registration of Unregistered Firearm

Post by VICHunter » 01 May 2019, 5:28 pm

pomemax wrote:Why do people come on a forum and ask questions like this as their first post not Hi or anything .If he /she has a licence he should know this information or how to find out the right information .


Why would he know this? They don't make you memorize the entire Firearms Act in your license safety course.

He's taken reasonable steps to find the right information. He asked on a reputable Australian firearms forum, and he got provided an answer quoted from a FAR document. All perfectly reasonable.

What was the point of your post exactly? Just to have a bitch about someone?

If all you've got to add is a harsh criticism of someone maybe keep it to yourself in future.
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Re: Registration of Unregistered Firearm

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 01 May 2019, 5:39 pm

Love the interwebs. Someone gives a decent and correct suggestion, After two completely different answers from members and we get people going fully sick bro.

No1 mate I read his first post again, actually I must be going blind so I read it twice (after reading it originally) where does he say he is from NSW. I am viewing it on a mobile so maybe I missed something. Can you please tell me. Or maybe you can read the question correctly before going off your handle.
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Re: Registration of Unregistered Firearm

Post by mickb » 01 May 2019, 5:53 pm

Always surprising folks upset why someone would ask such questions lol. It's a forum after all an area of asking and discussing points and opinions. If it was just for referencing it would be a library.

First, good question op. Second, it seems well answered. I think regardless of state the police have taken a viewpoint that it is easier for them, the owner and public safety they don't make it too hard for people to bring things in the books legitimately.

One thing the registries will do once either the police or the dealer applies to register the firearm is background check the guns seriel numbers for any links to theft or crime. In the case it was an old gun and you are reasonably sure he was not a gangster in the day you will be okay. :)

However if you have just found a gun randomly or maybe your mate gave it to you 10 years ago etc and you are using the deceased estate excuse be aware if it is hot you may have to answer some questions.
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Re: Registration of Unregistered Firearm

Post by Shrapnel 118 » 01 May 2019, 6:04 pm

BBJ, Chappoy, GojiraSteve, Ziad, No1_49er, VICHunter wrote:...


I called a couple dealers around NSW and both said it can not be registered without a amnesty being in action. So I have 2 primary sources of information, one being the police websites PDFs which are dated September 2008 and the other being NSW Gun Dealers, that contradict each other so I am still at a loss.



VICHunter wrote:Why would he know this? They don't make you memorize the entire Firearms Act in your license safety course.

He's taken reasonable steps to find the right information. He asked on a reputable Australian firearms forum, and he got provided an answer quoted from a FAR document. All perfectly reasonable.

What was the point of your post exactly? Just to have a bitch about someone?

If all you've got to add is a harsh criticism of someone maybe keep it to yourself in future.


Thanks for the backup.



Ziad wrote:Love the interwebs. Someone gives a decent and correct suggestion, After two completely different answers from members and we get people going fully sick bro.

No1 mate I read his first post again, actually I must be going blind so I read it twice (after reading it originally) where does he say he is from NSW. I am viewing it on a mobile so maybe I missed something. Can you please tell me. Or maybe you can read the question correctly before going off your handle.


On the PC version of the website it says the state you are in under each persons name.



mickb wrote:Always surprising folks upset why someone would ask such questions lol. It's a forum after all an area of asking and discussing points and opinions. If it was just for referencing it would be a library.

First, good question op. Second, it seems well answered. I think regardless of state the police have taken a viewpoint that it is easier for them, the owner and public safety they don't make it too hard for people to bring things in the books legitimately.

One thing the registries will do once either the police or the dealer applies to register the firearm is background check the guns seriel numbers for any links to theft or crime. In the case it was an old gun and you are reasonably sure he was not a gangster in the day you will be okay. :)

However if you have just found a gun randomly or maybe your mate gave it to you 10 years ago etc and you are using the deceased estate excuse be aware if it is hot you may have to answer some questions.


Thank you for your response, it was legitimacy found on a deceased family members estate. It should not have any criminal history attached to it.
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Re: Registration of Unregistered Firearm

Post by Chappo » 01 May 2019, 6:14 pm

I got my info from two lgs in the past week as I recently had the same question as the op.

Given their advice I still think it is impossible at the moment to have it registered in NSW but laws do change and another amnesty is possible.

Maybe the police cops need to update their website?
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Re: Registration of Unregistered Firearm

Post by GQshayne » 01 May 2019, 6:18 pm

G'day Shrapnel mate i'm in QLD not to sure of your states laws but anyway I found myself in a similar situation a bloke found an old 303 in his shed after being left it all in a will so he found this rifle it was unregistered he asked me if I wanted it so I took it to my local police and told them what I was going to do with it so I was pointed in the direction of the gun shop they done a notification of the rifle I think it's just a check to see if it was stolen then they set up a PTA for that rifle they keep the rifle until your licence or addition to your licence arrives you take that in and collect your newly acquired rifle it was very simple just a wait for paper work hope this can help


That is handy to know. I thought we had to wait for an amnesty to do this in Qld. How recently did you do this may I ask?
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Re: Registration of Unregistered Firearm

Post by Chappo » 01 May 2019, 6:19 pm

Furthermore one of the lgs owners told me that if they suspected anyone of being in possession of an unlicensed firearm then they had to report it to the police.
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Re: Registration of Unregistered Firearm

Post by Shrapnel 118 » 01 May 2019, 6:21 pm

I also called a QLD firearm dealer today to see what its like in Queensland and he said you simply just have to just bring it in and get a PTA.
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Re: Registration of Unregistered Firearm

Post by pomemax » 01 May 2019, 6:30 pm

What if the firearms are unregistered?
Unregistered firearms, must be immediately surrendered to police. It is an offence to
supply, acquire, possess or use an unregistered firearm - section 36(1) of the Act.
However, section 60 of the Act provides for an exemption to prosecution for the
offence of unauthorised possession of a firearm, provided the firearm is immediately
surrendered to police.
Following surrender of the firearms to police, an application may be made to the
court to allow you, as a licensee, to register those firearms to your licence.
If the court allows registration of the firearms, you will need to make application for a
PTA for each firearm.
Licence and permit holders can apply for a PTA a firearm online at the Service NSW
website (http://www.service.nsw.gov.au). A fee of $30 is required for each PTA application
(one application per firearm). Consideration of a fee waiver may be given if proof of
inheritance is provided. Approval for a fee waiver is determined by the General
Manager, Firearms Registry.
When your PTA has been issued, you will need to arrange for a NSW firearms dealer
to take possession of the firearm from police to register the firearm. You then take
your issued PTA to that dealer who will authorise the transfer of registration
transaction and send the required information to the Firearms Registry.
A registration certificate will be posted to you after all the necessary paperwork has
been received and processed by the Firearms Registry.
What if I am the executor, administrator and/or beneficiary of a deceased
estate and I live interstate?
Contact the Firearms Registry on 02 6670 8590 for further information
it take minutes to find
This is all for the Deceased estate if the person responsible for the estate just handed you a firearm or you are not the e executor or administrator of the estate or if they passed away more than 6 months ago.
Might cause you a few problems if you just walk into a police station with it cause you technically do not have a reason to have said firearm. But you may find its registered .
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Re: Registration of Unregistered Firearm

Post by Member-Deleted » 01 May 2019, 6:52 pm

CQshayne mate it was about 18mths or so ago or 2yrs ago at most I actually spoke to on this forum about it at the time about getting a 303 for $1 the oridinal owner passed away leaving his farm to his son who then gave it to his son who found the old rifle and the rest is history as I said the gun shop done a check and I presume it was relayed back to the police to see if it was stolen or used in any thefts or murders I wasn't allowed to take the rifle from the GS until all the paper work and licence addition was verified which took about 3-4weeks then I collected it from the GS after showing them my licence and ok'd paper work pretty simple really I can't see why they'd make it hard for someone to take an unregistered gun in and either register it in their name or just hand it in but getting caught with one is a different matter we don't seem to have all that tightness around guns up here but we do have to do things open and lawful if they detect any BS going on then they'll come down on you like a ton of bricks and make it very hard for you then but it would be your own fault for trying to pull the wool over their eyes Now like I said I explained myself clearly to them and where the rifle came from and what I wanted and they were very helpful had I been dodgy I would have been sorted out quiet quickly no fear of that
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Re: Registration of Unregistered Firearm

Post by GojiraSteve » 01 May 2019, 8:23 pm

pomemax wrote:Following surrender of the firearms to police, an application may be made to the
court to allow you, as a licensee, to register those firearms to your licence.
If the court allows registration of the firearms, you will need to make application for a
PTA for each firearm.
Licence and permit holders can apply for a PTA a firearm online at the Service NSW
website (http://www.service.nsw.gov.au). A fee of $30 is required for each PTA application
(one application per firearm). Consideration of a fee waiver may be given if proof of
inheritance is provided. Approval for a fee waiver is determined by the General
Manager, Firearms Registry.
When your PTA has been issued, you will need to arrange for a NSW firearms dealer
to take possession of the firearm from police to register


Jesus f***ing Christ! It's like they WANT people to transport said firearm across the QLD border, drop it at a gun shop there, and arrange an interstate transfer through their LGS back home...
#thisisnotlegaladvice
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Re: Registration of Unregistered Firearm

Post by Chappo » 01 May 2019, 8:53 pm

Yeah it strikes me as odd that you now (seemingly) can’t register anything unregistered in nsw. Surely it’s in everyone’s best interests to remove illegal firearms from existence.

Yes I know you still can surrender them but who wants to do that?

People are more likely to either hide them in the hope that one day they can register them or like gorjirasteve said try to get around it by going interstate.
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Re: Registration of Unregistered Firearm

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 01 May 2019, 9:17 pm

Sorry no1. As I said I am on mobile and state doesn't come up.
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Re: Registration of Unregistered Firearm

Post by Chappo » 01 May 2019, 9:21 pm

Hey Ziad. I’m on mobile too and on my phone the state does come up if you turn the phone on it’s side.
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Re: Registration of Unregistered Firearm

Post by on_one_wheel » 01 May 2019, 9:34 pm

It's in the police force best interest to have people register unregistered firearms.

They know full well if they make it difficult then they'll be more "grey market" firearms our there waiting to fall into the wrong hands.

I know that in SA the best way to legalize an unregistered firearm is to take it to a firearms dealer. Just as previously stated earlier here.

Doing it asap is very important. I wouldn't want to be caught with it before you get the chance.
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Re: Registration of Unregistered Firearm

Post by duncan61 » 01 May 2019, 10:08 pm

Very confident that W.A. has had an amnesty for a long time.If you find an old 303 you can get licensed for it.Now I am into target shooting I would claim its for service rifle
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Re: Registration of Unregistered Firearm

Post by No1_49er » 01 May 2019, 10:18 pm

Ziad wrote:Sorry no1. As I said I am on mobile and state doesn't come up.

No prob' :)
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Re: Registration of Unregistered Firearm

Post by zhuk » 01 May 2019, 10:24 pm

Wouldn't surprise me Chappo. I did it with my deceased uncle's ancient air rifle because he wanted me to have it (no one of his immediate family was licensed)

But then again, an amnesty happened to be in force at the time..so what the dealers are saying is probably right. There has been at least a couple of legislative overhauls since 2008 so wouldn't surprise me either if the online info is out of date.
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Re: Registration of Unregistered Firearm

Post by BBJ » 01 May 2019, 10:25 pm

Print out the doc linked from the NSW Police site that says you can take it to a dealer (just to cover your bases on that 1/1000 chance you got pulled over on your way there) and take it to a dealer ASAP.

Done.
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