Safe weighting

Questions about Queensland gun and ammunition laws. QLD Weapons Act 1990.

Safe weighting

Post by Mortis_Hônoré » 12 May 2019, 12:03 pm

If I was to purchase say the 7 gun safe from bunnings and put weights inside it to weigh it down to 150kg would that qualify to the requirments. IMO it would as you cant remove the weight unless you have access so at this point weight of the safe during theft is irrelevant because if they have access to remove the weight they will just take the guns and frget about the safe.
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Re: Safe weighting

Post by Chappo » 12 May 2019, 1:00 pm

Probably is the best answer I think you’ll get from any of us.
Best talk to the authorities in your state to get the right answer.
If it were me though I’d bolt it through the bottom and the back for good measure even if it did weigh more than 150kg
You can never have enough security when it comes to your firearms.
I suspect the 150kg rule is only there to give those who physically can’t bolt a safe down another option.
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Re: Safe weighting

Post by Archie » 12 May 2019, 1:52 pm

As Chappo says, check with the authorities but I doubt it will pass. I may be wrong so it’s well worth confirming.

The NSW factsheet is a bit more helpful regarding this because it specifies the container has to weigh 150kg when empty. The Queensland equivalent just says the container has to weigh 150kg. But the weights aren’t the container. I get what you’re saying, the practical effect is the same. But if your safe gets taken or broken into then the cops aren’t going to know for sure the weights were in there. All they are going to know is you used to have a safe that wasn’t 150kg, wasn’t bolted down, and now you have an empty spot where all your guns used to be.
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Re: Safe weighting

Post by Archie » 12 May 2019, 1:58 pm

As Chappo says, check with the authorities but I doubt it will pass. I may be wrong so it’s well worth confirming.

The NSW factsheet is a bit more helpful regarding this because it specifies the container has to weigh 150kg when empty. The Queensland equivalent just says the container has to weigh 150kg. But the weights aren’t the container. I get what you’re saying, the practical effect is the same. But if your safe gets taken or broken into then the cops aren’t going to know for sure the weights were in there. All they are going to know is you used to have a safe that wasn’t 150kg, wasn’t bolted down, and now you have an empty spot where all your guns used to be.
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Re: Safe weighting

Post by Chinballs » 12 May 2019, 3:51 pm

Mortis_Hônoré wrote:If I was to purchase say the 7 gun safe from bunnings and put weights inside it to weigh it down to 150kg would that qualify to the requirments.


Not unless the weight is physically attached to the safe ie steel plate welded to the back. Just chucking something heavy in the bottom won't pass.

If you ring WLB they will tell you the same thing,
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Re: Safe weighting

Post by bladeracer » 12 May 2019, 4:21 pm

Mortis_Hônoré wrote:If I was to purchase say the 7 gun safe from bunnings and put weights inside it to weigh it down to 150kg would that qualify to the requirments. IMO it would as you cant remove the weight unless you have access so at this point weight of the safe during theft is irrelevant because if they have access to remove the weight they will just take the guns and frget about the safe.


Only if they are part of the safe. The law states the weight for an _empty_ safe, everything removed including any weights.
Last edited by bladeracer on 12 May 2019, 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Safe weighting

Post by Chinballs » 12 May 2019, 4:51 pm

bladeracer wrote:The law states the weight for an _empty_ safe, everything removed including any weights.


Not in QLD it doesn't.

QLD Weapons Regulation 2016 Section 94

(5) For subsection (2), the container must—
(a) for a category D, H or R weapon—be a rigid structure
made of solid steel and be bolted to the frame or floor of
a permanent building; or
(b) for any other weapon—
(i) be a rigid structure made of solid steel or solid
timber; and
(ii) if the container weighs less than 150kg—be
securely fixed to the frame or floor of a permanent
building.
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Re: Safe weighting

Post by Apollo » 12 May 2019, 5:46 pm

Chinballs wrote:
bladeracer wrote:The law states the weight for an _empty_ safe, everything removed including any weights.


Not in QLD it doesn't.

QLD Weapons Regulation 2016 Section 94

(5) For subsection (2), the container must—
(a) for a category D, H or R weapon—be a rigid structure
made of solid steel and be bolted to the frame or floor of
a permanent building; or
(b) for any other weapon—
(i) be a rigid structure made of solid steel or solid
timber; and
(ii) if the container weighs less than 150kg—be
securely fixed to the frame or floor of a permanent
building.


I wouldn't push my understanding of the english language and law if I were you.... You may well just end up loosing if you push the point of " if the container weighs less than 150kg" since you may find out the hard way that it means an "empty container" being no weights of any description inside to make weight over the 150kg.

Some weights on the bottom of the safe are no different to the safe being full of firearms. What happens when the Police come to do an inspection and empty everything out of the safe (everything) and give it a shake, yet alone a couple of officers pick it up...you are gone...bye bye firearms and license. It's not worth the risk.
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Re: Safe weighting

Post by Chinballs » 12 May 2019, 6:12 pm

If you read my other reply I already said WLB would not allow it so no need to give me a lecture.

My post quoting the relevant legislation was in response to someone from Victoria saying it clearly says empty in the legislation which it doesn't in QLD.

If people are going to go on about what the law says they should probably read it first and not just assume every state is the same.
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Re: Safe weighting

Post by bladeracer » 12 May 2019, 6:18 pm

Chinballs wrote:
bladeracer wrote:The law states the weight for an _empty_ safe, everything removed including any weights.


Not in QLD it doesn't.

QLD Weapons Regulation 2016 Section 94

(5) For subsection (2), the container must—
(a) for a category D, H or R weapon—be a rigid structure
made of solid steel and be bolted to the frame or floor of
a permanent building; or
(b) for any other weapon—
(i) be a rigid structure made of solid steel or solid
timber; and
(ii) if the container weighs less than 150kg—be
securely fixed to the frame or floor of a permanent
building.


It says the _container_ has to meet the weight specified, the obvious implication being that anything additional to the _container_ would not be included.
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Re: Safe weighting

Post by Chinballs » 12 May 2019, 7:40 pm

bladeracer wrote:The law states the weight for an _empty_ safe, everything removed including any weights.


I replied to what you said above. The law does not state empty. Don't move the goal posts.

Once again, I already agreed its not allowed.
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Re: Safe weighting

Post by bladeracer » 12 May 2019, 7:43 pm

Chinballs wrote:
bladeracer wrote:The law states the weight for an _empty_ safe, everything removed including any weights.


I replied to what you said above. The law does not state empty. Don't move the goal posts.

Once again, I already agreed its not allowed.


So you're saying the law does not require the safe to be empty?
You are arguing semantics, to no purpose that I can see...
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Re: Safe weighting

Post by Archie » 12 May 2019, 8:05 pm

Anyway at least sounds like the OP has pretty much got his answer. I did a similar thing with a safe, got additional weight welded on. If you do that, I suggest getting some documentation of how much it weighs. Could be useful if anything happens. In my case, because I got the company I bought the safe from to do the welding, I just got them to confirm the weight in writing. If you do it yourself try and find someway of getting a record of the additional weight added. Cops probably can’t tell it’s valid by just looking, and doubly so if it gets nicked.

Mind you buy the time you’ve done all that it might just be easier to either bolt it or just buy a bigger safe if you can fit it. Everyone always ends up needing more space than they think they do at first anyway.
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Re: Safe weighting

Post by trekin » 13 May 2019, 5:07 am

bladeracer wrote:
Chinballs wrote:
bladeracer wrote:The law states the weight for an _empty_ safe, everything removed including any weights.


I replied to what you said above. The law does not state empty. Don't move the goal posts.

Once again, I already agreed its not allowed.


So you're saying the law does not require the safe to be empty?
You are arguing semantics, to no purpose that I can see...

No, what he is saying, is that we QLDer's don't need to have things spelt out for us. We have the nouse to understand that container means the vessel or other thing that the firearms are placed in for storage.
The answer to the OP's question would be (as CB pointed out earlier), that, yes in QLD that would be acceptable as long as the extra weight was permanently attached to the safe, thus becoming part of the container, not its contents. The practicality of adding 110 -120 KG and not losing storage space, however is an entirely different story.
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Re: Safe weighting

Post by Noisydad » 13 May 2019, 11:26 am

I've just finished building a 170 kg safe for my son. It's weighted with 50 kg of lead bars that are under a welded in false floor. I also had it weighed on a weigh bridge to get a supporting weigh bridge docket to prove its weight as even a 170 kg safe that's 1500 mm high can still be rocked with one hand.
Given that neither your average plod nor anyone else has any idea what a safe weighs just by rocking it, supporting documentary evidence would be a very useful thing to have.
There's still a few of Wile. E Coyote's ideas that I haven't tried yet.
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