Pre 1900 firearms registration not required?

[kritch]

Morning,

Gotta get my foruming in before the Melbourne Cup today, who's placing a bet?

Can someone clarify the deal with registering (or not) pre 1900 firearms?

In NSW some of them don't need to be registered. I think in VIC none do? Not sure about other states...

If I buy an old lever action like a Winchester 1894 it does have to be registered though, so the law doesn't apply to this one for some reason?

So when does this pre-1900 thing actually apply and a rifle doesn't need registration?

[Hercl]

Ammunition for pre-1900 firearms is considered to be basically unobtainable.

No ammo = no potential danger.

[Lorgar]

If I buy an old lever action like a Winchester 1894 it does have to be registered though, so the law doesn't apply to this one for some reason?

Yes, the Winchester 94 was originally designed in 1894, but is still being made. Ammo for it is readily available etc.

The rifle has to have been made prior to 1900, not designed. If you had a rifle which was no longer produced after 1900 then it wouldn't require registration.

If ammo was available for it though, then it would.

[Supporter]

The rifle has to have been made prior to 1900, not designed. If you had a rifle which was no longer produced after 1900 then it wouldn't require registration.

Something like an original Winchester 1866 which they stopped making in 1890 or something would be one.

[Hardcast]

I thought (and we all know what Thought thought), that firearms over the age of 100 years, were deemed 'antique' and need not be registered.
However, if they are not registered, then they must not be fired. OR that they can be registered as an antique, again not for firing.

I was told by a vendor at the recent gunshow, that this particular rifle he was selling was an antique, and there was no License required.
I'm assuming that it would still need to be registered.

This may be a S.A. thing.

[Aster]

I thought (and we all know what Thought thought), that firearms over the age of 100 years, were deemed 'antique' and need not be registered.

However, if they are not registered, then they must not be fired. OR that they can be registered as an antique, again not for firing.

I was told by a vendor at the recent gunshow, that this particular rifle he was selling was an antique, and there was no License required.
I'm assuming that it would still need to be registered.

This may be a S.A. thing.

In the documentation I've seen for NSW and Victoria it specifically says "Pre 1900", not "100 years".

Could vary in SA or other states though as you say...

Your right about the ammo though.

If it was an antique (whatever year this line is drawn at in each state) black powder rifle and a modern smokless cartridge is available for it - must be registered.

If it's pre-1900 but ammunition is still commercially available for it - must be registered.

If you hand load ammunition for it - must be registered.

[Releb]

If it was an antique (whatever year this line is drawn at in each state) black powder rifle and a modern smokless cartridge is available for it - must be registered.

Surely it's not as easy as just switching back and forth between black powder and modern smokeless rifle powder though?

[Beau Nottage]

So a .50 flintlock pistol is deemed safe enough it doesn't need to be registered but a single shot .177 air pistol is 6 months of being tangled in red tape?
May have my facts wrong but seriously?!

[tarnagulla]

In Victoria - yes, that is so.

The essentials are that a longarm made before 1900, AND for which ammunition is not commercially available is not classed as a firearm at all. However, the advice we received from Regulatory Services is that it is indeed legal to hand load for such non-guns. The 450/577 Martini is an example, being used in Military Rifle competition.

The rules for handguns are a little more complex, but basically a single barrel/single shot would be OK, but double barrel, or revolver (even if percussion) would require a licence and registration.

[sarki]

The essentials are that a longarm made before 1900, AND for which ammunition is not commercially available is not classed as a firearm at all. However, the advice we received from Regulatory Services is that it is indeed legal to hand load for such non-guns. The 450/577 Martini is an example, being used in Military Rifle competition.

So hand loading for a "non-gun" = no registration even though it's a working firearm?

[Warrigul]

Ammunition for pre-1900 firearms is considered to be basically unobtainable.

No ammo = no potential danger.

I have been through this in Tasmania:

Make note that it is just what I have been told by firearm services, ultimately if you final confirmation call them they are easy to talk to.

To qualify in Tasmania the first requirement it that it is pre 1900 IN MANUFACTURE (a reproduction made post 1900 is considered a modern arm be it a flintlock etc etc)

The second requirement if it is a cartridge arm is the cartridge needs to be no longer commercially made AND that it is not capable of chambering and firing a modern round.

On the above point be aware: all those with Metford rifled firearms etc note well that although the arm isn't proofed for modern ammo it can still chamber a MK7 .303 therefore is deemed "must be registered" as it is capable of using modern ammo. The same goes for that old 1890 damascus twisthammer gun with the paperthin barrelks you wouldn't dare fire in a million years- if you can chamber a 12 guage shell it must be registered. I have a Martini Metford in .303 and ended up having to register it for the simple reason it could chamber and fire a modern .303 round.

The other point worth noting is that although you do not have to register these arms nor de activate them, you MUST store them in a catagorically correct way, so even if it is an old 1700 flintlock jezail it still has to be stored in a catA/B safe.

You must not posess loaded rounds for any antique un registered firearms either, if you wish to use say a Snider, Martini etc for military blackpowder you must register it.

.45/70 trapdoors, many lever action rifles, most breech loading shotguns even though they are pre 1900 automatically are required to be registered.

I am not going to get into pre 1900 handguns in Tasmania as I am quite happy with the arrangements and don't wish to give anyone any ideas.

Any questions fire away, note I have no idea what applies to other states.

[Warrigul]

In Victoria - yes, that is so.

The essentials are that a longarm made before 1900, AND for which ammunition is not commercially available is not classed as a firearm at all. However, the advice we received from Regulatory Services is that it is indeed legal to hand load for such non-guns. The 450/577 Martini is an example, being used in Military Rifle competition.

I envy you in Vic, they have made a sensible determination in this case.

[Prios]

I envy you in Vic, they have made a sensible determination in this case.

I was under the impression that the Tasmania gun laws were pretty reasonable.

Not so?

[Warrigul]

I was under the impression that the Tasmania gun laws were pretty reasonable.

Not so?

In many ways(insert obligatory rant about how gun laws are un neccesary, a restriction on rights etc etc etc- and I do think they are a WASTE OF TIME) they are sensible, but if I wish to take an old flintlock out for a couple of shots I have to register it. A bit impractical. Same with any firearm purchased as a collectable- it cannot be fired and must be rendered temporarily inactive. There amendments going through Parliament may ease some of the restrictions shortly.

It comes back, in many circumstances, to how the legislation is interpreted. In TAS MOST Police are pretty good, but they have to work within the legislation.

[Hatter]

It comes back, in many circumstances, to how the legislation is interpreted.

AKA, whatever the hell the persons agenda is half the time

[kritch]

Thanks for the clarification guys.

Looks like all the rifle options I'm looking at do have to be registered with the fuzz. Will put in for one as normal.

Thanks.