another slant on self loaders

Questions about Queensland gun and ammunition laws. QLD Weapons Act 1990.

another slant on self loaders

Post by Member-Deleted » 17 Nov 2016, 12:27 pm

In my late teens/early twenties, I was fortunate enough to work in my fathers gun shop in Townsville, North Qld. It was a different world then, with basically no gun laws as such. A drivers licence or form of ID was all that was needed to buy anything from an air rifle to a 460 weatherby. Even then, you could borrow someone elses', as their was no photo ID anyway.

Apart from my collection of Lee Enfields (about 32 from memory, all on racks on open display, not hidden away in a safe), I also amassed a small arsenal of military self loaders. Not big noting myself, but I probably used, fired and handled more self loaders than anyone I know. The roof space in the gunshop was full of boxes of ex miltary hardware, some of which were totally illegal. My father had the dubious good fortune of buying the business from a shoddy character who ended up doing time on fraud charges a couple of years later, but that is another story............

My job was to go through all the boxes, and sort out what was suitable for sale, what could be salvaged for repair, and what could be tossed out. That also meant I got first choice at buying what I found, at cost price. So my collection included M1 Garands and M1 carbines, a H&K 91, Valmets in both Nato calibres (an AK 47 copy made in Finland), Swedish Jungmanns, FN 49's in 30-06 and 8 mm, a pile of AR10's (junk to say the least), AR 15's and AR 180's, a really nice G43 in 8mm, and an STG 44 selective fire in 7.92 Kurz. This was reluctantly handed over to a local collector with the appropriate licence. There were more of course, such as the ruger Mini 14, and the Springfield M1A M14, a host of 22 autoloaders as well, but they were brand new in the display cases. Anyway, I'm sure you get the picture.

I spent lots of time at the range testing them out, as well as pig hunting trips whenever I could, and some interesting things came to light.......while they were a lot of fun at the range, and some were very effective amongst a large group of pigs, for most practical purposes,my bolt actioned rifles were simply better. With self loaders you need to full length resize every round, which you normally lost most of in the long grass while hunting. The mini 14 had a shell catcher, but it was the exception. You also were restricted in your handloads, as they were very selective in bullet shape, and all needed almost full power rounds to operate efficiently. Trying to reduce loads to get better accuracy usually resulted in jams and misfeeds on most of them. I modified my M1 Garand to fire single shot, and did some other work to it, but it was still hard pressed to match my No4. Lee Enfield .

The triggers were all inferior, none of them grouped as well on the range as my "H" barreled Lithgow, and the tendency to waste shots was always present. While I regret giving some of them up, realistically, I don't have a need for a centre fire self loader, and would be hard pressed to justify having a rimfire semi auto as well, although the Ruger 10/22 and the H&K 22 magnum auto were brilliant rifles. Times have changed, society has as well, and I would be uneasy thinking that AR15's were as accessible here as they are in the US. In the hands of the Bona fide collector, or responsible shooter there would not be a problem, but in the wrong hands it would be a different matter.

While the media seems obsessed with lever actioned shotguns (which are junk in my opinion), at least they are leaving other types of firearms alone. Hopefully, no-one in the media will ever cotton on to the fact that some one armed with a Lee Enfield rifle could do an enormous amount of damage, far in excess of those lever actions. 303 ball, 10 shots in 10 seconds, charger clips and spare magazines, a No 5 Jungle Carbine would be a deadly weapon in the wrong hands. Thankfully, its an obsolete gun from last century, so no-one will take it seriously..........
Member-Deleted
 

Re: another slant on self loaders

Post by Gun-nut » 17 Nov 2016, 2:49 pm

Lever actions were obsolete from 2 centuries ago. The lefties want everything we have. Don't compromise, fight for all your rights back, if they come for levers, and you don't like em', fight for them anyway because they're gonna work their way down to your bolt action rifles and double barreled shotguns.
Gun-nut
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 428
Victoria

Re: another slant on self loaders

Post by happyhunter » 17 Nov 2016, 4:34 pm

While the media seems obsessed with lever actioned shotguns (which are junk in my opinion)..

Junk is putting it nicely :D
happyhunter
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1303
Other

Re: another slant on self loaders

Post by Title_II » 17 Nov 2016, 9:22 pm

Based on the thread title I was really really hoping for horny East Asian reloader groupies. I could feel it in my bones that it was a long shot, though.

Maybe I should concentrate on the basics, like putting Rogaine on my head and practicing guitar.
User avatar
Title_II
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1430
United States of America

Re: another slant on self loaders

Post by Cryptic » 18 Nov 2016, 6:29 am

Title_II wrote:Based on the thread title I was really really hoping for horny East Asian reloader groupies. I could feel it in my bones that it was a long shot, though.

Maybe I should concentrate on the basics, like putting Rogaine on my head and practicing guitar.


So I wasnt the only one that read the thread title in a racist way.
Cryptic
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 276
Queensland

Re: another slant on self loaders

Post by GLS_1956 » 20 Nov 2016, 1:18 am

And here is another slant on self loaders, and yes I am an American, age 60 and have been shooting since age 6 and have been buying guns since age 16-17. Like aradoar234 I've owned, err own, a number of self loaders, semi/semiautomatics as they are generally called here, by the shooting community, semiautomatic assault rifles by the anti-gun groups. In centerfire rifles I have 4 guns; M-1 Garand, M-1 Carbine, Ruger Mini-14, and a Ruger 556. What you say about reloading ammo is true, but so what? Same for them tossing the brass far and wide, my shooting of the rifles has been a the range so policing the brass isn't a big deal. I shoot the M-1 Garand better than I do the No4 Mk1 SMLE so it may be the gun or the shooter. The Mini is not know for its match grade accuracy, but I'm told the latest ones are much improved over my 30+ year old gun, and an M-1 Carbine is just plain fun to shoot, the 556 is un-shot so far, just haven't made it out to the range with her. I notice you seemed to play down the semiauto 22 rifles. Well I have 4 of them as well; Ruger 10/22, Marlin Model 60, Stevens(Marlin) Springfield, and a Remington Model 66. The Stevens was inherited from my grandfather who used it as his farm gun taking care of rats, those that walked and those that flew, and the odd rabbit. The Remington will never be known for its trigger unless it is for being heavy, mushy, and loads of over travel. Ruger's 10/22 is just about the best selling 22 out there you are right about its poor trigger and I will admit you'll never see in in the Olympics it is more than minute of rabbit accurate. Now the Marlin Model 60 is quite accurate, nearly matching my CZ 455 American which cost almost twice as much, and the more you shoot it the better the trigger gets. Now the really nice thing about the auto loader is that it lets you take that quick follow up shot on the rabbit or squirrel. I also gather that there are occasions when one is trying thin out the rabbit population where fast shots are an advantage. You seemed to have completely bypassed the shotgun in your thoughts but I find them quite nice when out for ducks and other waterfowl as well as upland birds. They are also nice on the trap or skeet range.

As to lever action shotguns, I've only shot one lever action shotgun, an original Winchester 1887 made in 1901, I think, so I can't really comment on them. But I do also have 3 pump action shotguns and 4 break action shotguns, 3 side-by-sides and 1 over/under.

Semiauto handguns are available to you Australians and the same should be for shoulder arms as well.

We here in the USA dodged the bullet from having anti-gun, Australia style of gun ownership, laws imposed on us this month with the defeat of Hillary Clinton. I'm sure had she gotten elected and won her war on freedom there would be a number of Americans sounding like you, aradoar234, saying that they were not really that good or we're better off with out them. Do you remember Aesop's fable about the Wolf and the grapes?
I've been asked: "How many guns do you need to have?" My answer remains the same: "One more."
GLS_1956
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 541
United States of America

Re: another slant on self loaders

Post by Mr.Seacucumber » 20 Nov 2016, 6:32 am

aradoar234 wrote:In my late teens/early twenties, I was fortunate enough to work in my fathers gun shop in Townsville, North Qld. It was a different world then, with basically no gun laws as such. A drivers licence or form of ID was all that was needed to buy anything from an air rifle to a 460 weatherby. Even then, you could borrow someone elses', as their was no photo ID anyway.

Apart from my collection of Lee Enfields (about 32 from memory, all on racks on open display, not hidden away in a safe), I also amassed a small arsenal of military self loaders. Not big noting myself, but I probably used, fired and handled more self loaders than anyone I know. The roof space in the gunshop was full of boxes of ex miltary hardware, some of which were totally illegal. My father had the dubious good fortune of buying the business from a shoddy character who ended up doing time on fraud charges a couple of years later, but that is another story............

My job was to go through all the boxes, and sort out what was suitable for sale, what could be salvaged for repair, and what could be tossed out. That also meant I got first choice at buying what I found, at cost price. So my collection included M1 Garands and M1 carbines, a H&K 91, Valmets in both Nato calibres (an AK 47 copy made in Finland), Swedish Jungmanns, FN 49's in 30-06 and 8 mm, a pile of AR10's (junk to say the least), AR 15's and AR 180's, a really nice G43 in 8mm, and an STG 44 selective fire in 7.92 Kurz. This was reluctantly handed over to a local collector with the appropriate licence. There were more of course, such as the ruger Mini 14, and the Springfield M1A M14, a host of 22 autoloaders as well, but they were brand new in the display cases. Anyway, I'm sure you get the picture.

I spent lots of time at the range testing them out, as well as pig hunting trips whenever I could, and some interesting things came to light.......while they were a lot of fun at the range, and some were very effective amongst a large group of pigs, for most practical purposes,my bolt actioned rifles were simply better. With self loaders you need to full length resize every round, which you normally lost most of in the long grass while hunting. The mini 14 had a shell catcher, but it was the exception. You also were restricted in your handloads, as they were very selective in bullet shape, and all needed almost full power rounds to operate efficiently. Trying to reduce loads to get better accuracy usually resulted in jams and misfeeds on most of them. I modified my M1 Garand to fire single shot, and did some other work to it, but it was still hard pressed to match my No4. Lee Enfield .

The triggers were all inferior, none of them grouped as well on the range as my "H" barreled Lithgow, and the tendency to waste shots was always present. While I regret giving some of them up, realistically, I don't have a need for a centre fire self loader, and would be hard pressed to justify having a rimfire semi auto as well, although the Ruger 10/22 and the H&K 22 magnum auto were brilliant rifles. Times have changed, society has as well, and I would be uneasy thinking that AR15's were as accessible here as they are in the US. In the hands of the Bona fide collector, or responsible shooter there would not be a problem, but in the wrong hands it would be a different matter.

While the media seems obsessed with lever actioned shotguns (which are junk in my opinion), at least they are leaving other types of firearms alone. Hopefully, no-one in the media will ever cotton on to the fact that some one armed with a Lee Enfield rifle could do an enormous amount of damage, far in excess of those lever actions. 303 ball, 10 shots in 10 seconds, charger clips and spare magazines, a No 5 Jungle Carbine would be a deadly weapon in the wrong hands. Thankfully, its an obsolete gun from last century, so no-one will take it seriously..........



Do you have that number of the collector? I'm looking for an AK carrier sounds like he might have one.
Mr.Seacucumber
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 290
Victoria

Re: another slant on self loaders

Post by Member-Deleted » 23 Nov 2016, 7:25 am

To the gentleman from the U.S.........sour grapes has got nothing to do with it. I've done my time, and then some, with military style self loaders. As for your BS political situation, that has got nothing to do with it either
Member-Deleted
 

Re: another slant on self loaders

Post by knowsnothin » 23 Nov 2016, 7:49 am

In ten years time this thread could read... a slant on bolt action rifles.

when i was young i used to go blazing with a 5 shot bolt action rifles. in fact i owned every bolt action rifle ever made, in every calibre ever made.
but these days a find that my single shot break action 22lr is all that i ever need....
knowsnothin
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 134
Western Australia

Re: another slant on self loaders

Post by GLS_1956 » 24 Nov 2016, 1:25 am

Trust me aradoar234 them grapes are sour, really. Otherwise let me invite you to gather up 5 of your SMLE shooting buddies and hop a QANTAS flight to Dallas, along with your SMLEs, and I'll find 5 more guys here with M-1s and we can have a match. We'd come there, but they won't let our guns in. I guess they're afraid we'd overthrow the Gov't.
I've been asked: "How many guns do you need to have?" My answer remains the same: "One more."
GLS_1956
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 541
United States of America

Re: another slant on self loaders

Post by Member-Deleted » 25 Nov 2016, 7:13 am

GLS_1956 wrote:Trust me aradoar234 them grapes are sour, really. Otherwise let me invite you to gather up 5 of your SMLE shooting buddies and hop a QANTAS flight to Dallas, along with your SMLEs, and I'll find 5 more guys here with M-1s and we can have a match. We'd come there, but they won't let our guns in. I guess they're afraid we'd overthrow the Gov't.

No problem. Just don't drop your M1 in the mud, or get it wet, or it would be a really one sided contest. On the other hand, I've got a soft spot for Garands, as it is the only military self loader I really miss. Spent a LOT of time and work on it though, and it still wouldn't match My P14 Enfield at any distance out to 1000 yds. Come to think of it, the P14 never tried to mash my thumb when loading it, it never had a mis -feed or jam, and I could use every possible load combination without an issue. Still got it, 35 years later, and it still performs the same, nothing sour about it :thumbsup:
Member-Deleted
 

Re: another slant on self loaders

Post by Member-Deleted » 25 Nov 2016, 7:19 am

knowsnothin wrote:In ten years time this thread could read... a slant on bolt action rifles.

when i was young i used to go blazing with a 5 shot bolt action rifles. in fact i owned every bolt action rifle ever made, in every calibre ever made.
but these days a find that my single shot break action 22lr is all that i ever need....

Every bolt action in every calibre?????? ......I'm beginning to regret ever starting this thread :crazy:
Member-Deleted
 

Re: another slant on self loaders

Post by GLS_1956 » 25 Nov 2016, 12:55 pm

Wet, no problem, mud? just wash it off in a stream. Dad hauled an M-1 from New Guinea to Japan. He made parachute jumps and amphibious landing with the M-1 and enjoy the wonderful Philippine monsoons. The Lee Enfield series of rifles are the best bolt action battle rifles ever designed, but still fail to the M-1 in accuracy.

As for the P-14, can't say as having never fired one, but I do have an Eddystone M1917, but the P-14 has a reputation as a shooter for sure. I'll have to admit that my favorite bolt action battle rifle is 1903A3, especially if it can be had with the "C" stock.
I've been asked: "How many guns do you need to have?" My answer remains the same: "One more."
GLS_1956
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 541
United States of America

Re: another slant on self loaders

Post by Member-Deleted » 26 Nov 2016, 4:52 pm

can't argue about the A3 Springfield, and I have 3 Eddystone M17 based rifles myself, but you'll have to supply some evidence about the M1 Garand being more accurate than the No 4 Lee Enfield. Everything I've read, but more specifically, personal experience,points the other way. Owned 3 M1's, 2 of whch were in very good shape, and they all could do no better than 4 inch groups, and that was with carefully tailored handloads. With the ex military stuff it was more like 6 inch groups. The No 4 Lee Enfield would regularly shoot two inch groups. I'm talking shooting from a proper Bench rest as well. I'm not ragging the M1 by any means, but there are a number of more accurate military rifles out there. Realistically, all military rifles are not designed to be target rifles ( look at the crappy accuracy that comes from behind the iron curtain), but some do shoot consistently better than others.

If you want more proof, the Lee enfield was used as a sniper rifle by the british well into the 1980's, were as the M1 had very limited use a sniper rifle by comparison. It has outlived the span of the Krag, the 03, the M1, and the m14, and is still currently in use by the Canadian rangers. They helped kick the soviets out of Afghanistan, regularly out distancing the AK in a fire fight, and still show up all the time in 3rd world countries( usually in the wrong hands though ). Of course I;m biased towards them, but no other service rifle has had the life span of the Lee Enfield.
Member-Deleted
 

Re: another slant on self loaders

Post by GLS_1956 » 27 Nov 2016, 1:39 am

My experience is like yours but reversed, when it comes to rifle accuracy. My SMLE No4mk1 with S&B 174gr ammo gives me 5 to 6 inch groups, but I've shot gotten 4 inch groups with the M-1, using Turkish surplus ball ammo. Mind you the M-1 is more comfortable to shoot. I can't say whether it is because of the gas operating system or the nearly 10 pounds of wood and steel.

For longevity the SMLE gets high marks, this is a tribute to Mr. Lee its American (action) designer. The M-1 served in front line units, of non-American armies, and the US Navy well into the 70s. the M-1 sniper rifle, models M-1C and M-1D during the Korean and most of Vietnam. Now the medal for remaining in service the longest, active duty units, belongs to the Browning designed 1911/M-45, One hundred and five years of continuous service. Second would probably be the M-2 50 cal. machine gun. Oh and let me point out that the M-1 das designed by John C. Garand, a Canadian.
I've been asked: "How many guns do you need to have?" My answer remains the same: "One more."
GLS_1956
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 541
United States of America

Re: another slant on self loaders

Post by bladeracer » 27 Nov 2016, 3:34 am

GLS_1956 wrote:For longevity the SMLE gets high marks, this is a tribute to Mr. Lee its American (action) designer.



American?
He was scottish I think.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: another slant on self loaders

Post by GLS_1956 » 27 Nov 2016, 1:39 pm

American?
He was scottish I think.[/quote]

British, Canadian finally American. He knew when to stop. :lol:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Paris_Lee
I've been asked: "How many guns do you need to have?" My answer remains the same: "One more."
GLS_1956
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 541
United States of America

Re: another slant on self loaders

Post by bladeracer » 27 Nov 2016, 4:32 pm

GLS_1956 wrote:American?
He was scottish I think.


British, Canadian finally American. He knew when to stop. :lol:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Paris_Lee[/quote]


He lived in the US but I don't think he was ever an American.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: another slant on self loaders

Post by GLS_1956 » 28 Nov 2016, 4:45 am

Well he's buried here.
I've been asked: "How many guns do you need to have?" My answer remains the same: "One more."
GLS_1956
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 541
United States of America

Re: another slant on self loaders

Post by bladeracer » 28 Nov 2016, 4:54 am

GLS_1956 wrote:Well he's buried here.



Yep, he lived and died there, but my understanding is that he was never a US citizen.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: another slant on self loaders

Post by GLS_1956 » 28 Nov 2016, 4:31 pm

bladeracer wrote:
GLS_1956 wrote:Well he's buried here.



Yep, he lived and died there, but my understanding is that he was never a US citizen.


The resource I have does not say, but I would think that if you're going to spend the rest of your life in another country, than where you were born or taken to as a child, you'd become a citizen. Regardless, possession is nine-tenths of the law. ;)
Last edited by GLS_1956 on 01 Dec 2016, 1:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
I've been asked: "How many guns do you need to have?" My answer remains the same: "One more."
GLS_1956
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 541
United States of America

Re: another slant on self loaders

Post by happyhunter » 29 Nov 2016, 7:27 pm

haha.. true that :D
happyhunter
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1303
Other

Re: another slant on self loaders

Post by Title_II » 03 Dec 2016, 8:48 pm

GLS_1956 wrote:Well he's buried here.


Dig him up and deport him! :D
User avatar
Title_II
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1430
United States of America

Re: another slant on self loaders

Post by GLS_1956 » 04 Dec 2016, 12:50 am

Title_II wrote:
GLS_1956 wrote:Well he's buried here.


Dig him up and deport him! :D


They tried to do that with Ira Gershwin, he was born in Russia, but when the opened the coffin he was in there erasing music score. When asked what he was up to he replied: "Don't bother me! I'm decomposing!" :roll:
I've been asked: "How many guns do you need to have?" My answer remains the same: "One more."
GLS_1956
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 541
United States of America

Re: another slant on self loaders

Post by Supaduke » 04 Dec 2016, 9:07 am

GLS_1956 wrote:
Title_II wrote:
GLS_1956 wrote:Well he's buried here.


Dig him up and deport him! :D


They tried to do that with Ira Gershwin, he was born in Russia, but when the opened the coffin he was in there erasing music score. When asked what he was up to he replied: "Don't bother me! I'm decomposing!" :roll:


Ha...ba bom...... tish
Supaduke
Warrant Officer C2
Warrant Officer C2
 
Posts: 1230
Victoria


Back to top
 
Return to Queensland gun laws