2017 NFA is here - please read

[pete1]

There was restrictions on purchace amounts of ammo

Yes but I didn't see anything about restrictions on how much you can possess.

Page 13 of 14 part 54.

54. Jurisdictions will legislate to allow the sale of ammunition only for those firearms for which
the purchaser is licenced, and impose limits on the quantity of ammunition that may be
purchased in a given period.

Not very specific on exact quantities or time frame.

[duncan61]

O.K.people the ammo restriction was always there but is very generous,Stop acting like its the end of the world.I have 300+ 7mm rem 400+ .243 300+ .222 1000+ 22LR and assorted shotgun ammo.I remember something like you could have 5000 LR and a 1000 each centrefire calibre If we bleat about the non essential stuff we wont be taken seriously on real issues.It is wise policy not to let an Individual person possibly living in a city or suburban area to have a massive arsenal and enough ammo to supply a small army.Public safety is paramount and I do not feel safe living in a country where anyone can have a concealable handgun that they bought at a corner store and catch public transport.I see enough drama on buses and trains without having to worry if they have a lethal weapon.I have never owned a handgun yet apart from military training I have shot blackpowder 45 and several different modern handguns at various ranges over the years.If you really wish to do the cowboy stuff and target shooting you go through the process cos you are serious and wish to do it then you are entrusted with the handguns you need/want and have a good understanding of the responsibility of owning a handgun.Feel free to comment this is a public forum and its only my opinion

[Pythonkeeper]

I thought there was already a limit (I'm talking Qld) to the amount of ammo you can possess, from what I remember it is 10,000 rounds in total of any combination of rimfire or centre fire etc so long as it doesn't exceed that amount. If this is the case that's pretty fair I think.

[Cryptic]

I thought there was already a limit (I'm talking Qld) to the amount of ammo you can possess, from what I remember it is 10,000 rounds in total of any combination of rimfire or centre fire etc so long as it doesn't exceed that amount. If this is the case that's pretty fair I think.

10000 then after that you need a certain hazard notice visible in a prescribed way for safety in case of fire or some such.

[deye243]

just as I thought all for screwing us and not one thing in this s**t

to punish crims

[juststarting]

Individual person possibly living in a city or suburban area to have a massive arsenal and enough ammo to supply a small army.Public safety is paramount

I live in a town house and I must say I agree, I am not even fully comfortable stock piling my crap... In case of fire and what not. I think that's what you meant? What does supplying a small army have to do with anything? E.g. if I had a rural property or free standing garage, yeah, why not, I it's for personal use and should not be anyones business, but mine.

and I do not feel safe living in a country where anyone can have a concealable handgun that they bought at a corner store and catch public transport.I see enough drama on buses and trains without having to worry if they have a lethal weapon.

Mate, you haven't been to a bar or a nightclub in a busy district I am guessing in decades? Gun should be the least of your worries, a glass or a bottle being smashed over your face is however a real threat. A knife... Being punched, plenty of people died from that by smashing their head on concrete in a fall. You are being a drama queen. Same checks as anywhere else, chill. Personally, I would love a handgun for home defence and one in the car.

And... Do I dare ask how you feel about semi-auto?

I have never owned a handgun yet apart from military training I have shot blackpowder 45 and several different modern handguns at various ranges over the years.If you really wish to do the cowboy stuff and target shooting you go through the process cos you are serious and wish to do it then you are entrusted with the handguns you need/want and have a good understanding of the responsibility of owning a handgun.

A very naive view, methinks. I would love to participate in all of those sports and I would! But I don't have the time considering my family commitments and attendance for shooting pistols commitments. I would gladly go to my local range and plink at stuff, why do I have to be serious to own something? I had this view too, but it's false sense of freedom. It is being legislated out of existence.

Oh and by the way, speaking of lethal weapons, do you drive a car, own a BBQ gas cylinder, knifes, have a medicine cabinet, feel up at a servo (where you can buy a lighter)? Honestly, I don't know how I feel about concealed carry, which you touch on. I think we have a different culture for that. But for home defence, I think it's time to do so. And while at it, start allowing people non-lethal weapons too for protection, taser, pepper spray, etc.

I agree with you on limits in built up areas, but purely from risk management in case of fire, everything else I think this is a naive view of things.

[deye243]

I don't feel safe living in a country that won't let ME take care of my own defence . if I had the money

I would rather live and die in a country that gives me this basic right than live here .

I even seen a CA segment the other night where the cop stated that when being carjacked if you fight

back to tri and keep your own property you will be charged also .

[AZZA'S HJ47]

O.K.people the ammo restriction was always there but is very generous,Stop acting like its the end of the world.I have 300+ 7mm rem 400+ .243 300+ .222 1000+ 22LR and assorted shotgun ammo.I remember something like you could have 5000 LR and a 1000 each centrefire calibre If we bleat about the non essential stuff we wont be taken seriously on real issues.It is wise policy not to let an Individual person possibly living in a city or suburban area to have a massive arsenal and enough ammo to supply a small army.Public safety is paramount and I do not feel safe living in a country where anyone can have a concealable handgun that they bought at a corner store and catch public transport.I see enough drama on buses and trains without having to worry if they have a lethal weapon.I have never owned a handgun yet apart from military training I have shot blackpowder 45 and several different modern handguns at various ranges over the years.If you really wish to do the cowboy stuff and target shooting you go through the process cos you are serious and wish to do it then you are entrusted with the handguns you need/want and have a good understanding of the responsibility of owning a handgun.Feel free to comment this is a public forum and its only my opinion

I hear what you are saying Duncan61. The main issue that i have is the constant erosion of our rights. As you say no one person should have a large amout of ammo lying around. Who cares if some halfwit comes in and steals it, its still obtained by nutters that dont have a licence does it mean the we enabled them to do something silly? 10 rounds or 2000 he can only shoot one at a time.

I do agree that public saftey is paramount and we all do our thing to abide by strict conditions that we as shooters have to abide by. In regards to your comments relating to handguns how does that have anything to do with licensed shooters? I recently asked my local fedral member the same question one that he wouldn't answer.

What further restrictions placed on licenced shooters do to stop criminals from getting thier hands on a gun? None just look at the Gold coast Ephrim Island the last drug raid they found a drum fed semi auto shotgun similar to a aa12, never been able to legally get one of them here, the police shut down a gang making pistols at Burleigh heads.

Where there is a will there is a way. There is little that government can do to stop the criminal networks until they actively target them and stop using the licenced shooters as a scapegoat for a easy headline.

[duncan61]

The small army comment was a reason given to me by a policeman why they get nervous when someone wishes to possess a lot of rifles in the same chambering.About 3 is O.K.For example you may have a dedicated target rifle in .243 and a lever scrub gun and the first bolt action you ever had but if you want another it starts to raise eyebrows as you could hand them out and everyone is armed in the same chambering.This is direct from the police I was dealing with at the time.

[duncan61]

My hand gun point was even here in W.A.we have ranges you can go put a reasonable amount of money down less than a $100 and have a go with all sorts of handguns with a bit of safety training.My buddy in Thailand was banging away with a desert eagle recently for about $20 AUD.Lets be aware if you wish to get a handgun you can by following the steps required .The nightclub violence scenario is a bit like cars kill more people than sharks but being actively predated on in the water is not the same as being squashed in a metal box on the road.I have plagiarised that opinion as over here we have a lot of white pointer fatalities right where I live but the do gooders say we should not hurt the sharks and stay out the water.I say harvest the big bastards in the metro area and eat them.Even a 2000 lb white is edible as they are mainly in the south and do not build up the mercury the big sharks up north do.If we cull 20 big whites and it saves one person from being killed is it worth it????.There are still a gazillion of them in the bight.

[duncan61]

Staying on subject I have completely read the NFA and feel it is fair from both sides.Whats 28 days in a life time it is purely a cooling off period.I recently licensed 3 firearms and it took longer than that . If the government declared that all firearms had to be handed in that would be outrageous.Dare I mention semi autos.I dont have all the data but all the roo shooters I have ever known use bolt actions.I am aware of 3 incidents of fatalities that would not of occurred if the firearm in question was not a semi auto.All when climbing fences and handing rifles over.If you lift the handle on a bolt action it can not fire.When pro shooting I never had the safety on always had the bolt up till ready and the rifle sits in mounts on the dash.It gets put out the window the bolt is closed and target acquired and dropped all in one smooth operation less than 3 seconds or it will probably hop off.I have owned a semi auto shotgun and a 22LR that sometimes fired 2 or more times on occasion.Hunting is all about stalking and taking down your quarry with a well placed humane shot with a suitable calibre.Again its only my opinion

[deye243]

Staying on subject I have completely read the NFA and feel it is fair from both sides.Whats 28 days in a life time it is purely a cooling off period.I recently licensed 3 firearms and it took longer than that . If the government declared that all firearms had to be handed in that would be outrageous.Dare I mention semi autos.I dont have all the data but all the roo shooters I have ever known use bolt actions.I am aware of 3 incidents of fatalities that would not of occurred if the firearm in question was not a semi auto.All when climbing fences and handing rifles over.If you lift the handle on a bolt action it can not fire.When pro shooting I never had the safety on always had the bolt up till ready and the rifle sits in mounts on the dash.It gets put out the window the bolt is closed and target acquired and dropped all in one smooth operation less than 3 seconds or it will probably hop off.I have owned a semi auto shotgun and a 22LR that sometimes fired 2 or more times on occasion.Hunting is all about stalking and taking down your quarry with a well placed humane shot with a suitable calibre.Again its only my opinion

duncan61 don't take this to personally but the only time I need a cooling off period is when I read something like you post

the insinuation that I need a cooling off period for buying a fire arm is not only insulting it is down right disgusting .

the fact that they want you to wait even if you already have a fire arm is at best a joke as if a cooling off period was needed

well then they should come and take the others while you cool off .

and as for your semi comment's re fatalities this may sound harsh but who cares it is no different than some one choosing

to ride a motor bike you are 10 times more likely to die on one of them that a car it is all about the choice you make .


cheers D

EDIT there is nothing fair in that report what would be fair is they leave us alone and get after the pricks that neither have

a licence or the brains to live in a decent society .

[Title_II]

O.K.people the ammo restriction was always there but is very generous,Stop acting like its the end of the world.I have 300+ 7mm rem 400+ .243 300+ .222 1000+ 22LR and assorted shotgun ammo.I remember something like you could have 5000 LR and a 1000 each centrefire calibre

I got more than that rolling around the floor of my garage.

Screw these turkeys. They are just trying to limit firearm ownership as much as possible.

[Title_II]

I thought there was already a limit (I'm talking Qld) to the amount of ammo you can possess, from what I remember it is 10,000 rounds in total of any combination of rimfire or centre fire etc so long as it doesn't exceed that amount. If this is the case that's pretty fair I think.

Fair for who?

Individual person possibly living in a city or suburban area to have a massive arsenal and enough ammo to supply a small army.Public safety is paramount

I live in a town house and I must say I agree, I am not even fully comfortable stock piling my crap... In case of fire and what not. I think that's what you meant? What does supplying a small army have to do with anything? E.g. if I had a rural property or free standing garage, yeah, why not, I it's for personal use and should not be anyones business, but mine.

How would this help public safety? Just because you've been told for two decades that if you have too many guns it's dangerous that suddenly makes it true? What if too many of your neighbors own guns? Is that also dangerous, or is it only dangerous if they are all in one home? I mean, perhaps we should limit the number of firearms licenses per municipality. If a massive arsenal in a home is a public safety hazard then a massive arsenal spread across a small number of homes is just as bad.

I really don't mean any offense, but some people have been, shall we say, "conditioned."

You could have a million rounds of ammo in your house and burn it to the ground and it would not result in an explosion.

Here is a video of what happens. Feel free to skip through it, you don't have to watch every minute.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/201 ... als-truth/

[TheDude]

I thought there was already a limit (I'm talking Qld) to the amount of ammo you can possess, from what I remember it is 10,000 rounds in total of any combination of rimfire or centre fire etc so long as it doesn't exceed that amount. If this is the case that's pretty fair I think.

Yep, it's not a hard limit though. Under the explosives act if you have over 10,000 rounds you need to have explosives signage on your storage area/cupboard.

[Archie]

15. Recreational shooters/hunters
(a) Recreational shooters/hunters must produce proof of permission from a landowner.
(b) Firearms permitted for acquisition, possession or use under this genuine reason are:
i. Category A
ii. Category B

So what about those people who shoot on public land ? Who's going to provide a letter of permission for that ... the Queen ?

Don't know how it works in other states, but in NSW when you shoot in a state forest, you need to have booked it online via the DPI and be carrying the confirmation with you while hunting. So, basically yes.

[<<Genesis93>>]

This was the slowwwest train wreck.... we watched these mongrels 'craft' this nonsense for what... 3 years??
We know the end game...... without a massive change in Aus politics - we will eventually see it.

As far as this one goes,
28 days was always there
We knew the Adlers changes were to be implemented
I'm very surprised the hardwood receptacles remain.
There's nonsense monitored alarm stuff, RADIO where no other comms!!
Bit of other fiddling here and there..

Its a wishlist for all states to implement, they're currently furiously drafting changes to implement as much or as little as they deem POLITICALLY EXPEDIENT...... IF the commies go hard in QLD before the election they'll be rightly crucified... so they'll wait, the others will push through where Assent is not required as i've previously said (hence WA couple of weeks ago)

[<<Genesis93>>]

feeling creative.....

[pomemax]

Well its not realy a surprise its a shopping list .
But here,s my take on it i have 20 plus fire arms My safe is 240 kg+
I have a monitored back to base alarm system that I pay for I have closed loop cctv recorded Offsite too ( its not the end of the world they are you guns secure them I feel better for the security I have )
last year I used in excess of 17,000 rounds in different cal and I reload .
Shooting is my chosen sport it has been for years there are costs and risks associated with it if you have one gun not much cost same risk tho ,
So why do people go on about its not right that I have to have a safe or 28 days to get another firearm because they are the laws at the moment live with them , protest to your local member State and Federal the more the better .
I will give you a hint tho no gun laws have ever been relaxed in Australia they just get harder and more complexed we can maybe slow them down but the politicians will keep at gun owners always will .Because we chose to obey they laws they impose over our rights( link below) by the way the Australian Constitution I believe is based on this
.If laws stopped criminals there wouldn't be any criminals.
I bet i could find an illegal handgun in less than 28 hours if wanted to do something stupid!
https://thelibertarianalliance.com/2014 ... r-defence/

[Gun-nut]

Staying on subject I have completely read the NFA and feel it is fair from both sides.Whats 28 days in a life time it is purely a cooling off period.I recently licensed 3 firearms and it took longer than that . If the government declared that all firearms had to be handed in that would be outrageous.Dare I mention semi autos.I dont have all the data but all the roo shooters I have ever known use bolt actions.I am aware of 3 incidents of fatalities that would not of occurred if the firearm in question was not a semi auto.All when climbing fences and handing rifles over.If you lift the handle on a bolt action it can not fire.When pro shooting I never had the safety on always had the bolt up till ready and the rifle sits in mounts on the dash.It gets put out the window the bolt is closed and target acquired and dropped all in one smooth operation less than 3 seconds or it will probably hop off.I have owned a semi auto shotgun and a 22LR that sometimes fired 2 or more times on occasion.Hunting is all about stalking and taking down your quarry with a well placed humane shot with a suitable calibre.Again its only my opinion

Its shooters like you, that aid the Greens and GCA in achieving their goal of total disarmament. Never give in to their demands, as we learnt in 96', once they start taking your guns, they never stop.

[juststarting]

This is beginning to smell of deadkitty...

[juststarting]

Duncan, reason we in VIC freak out about 28 days, is because our second and further PTAs are issued in more or less minutes. It's the same day gun purchase as long as you already own a firearm. So to take a step back like that is just crazy to us. I've been told that in WA (read: wait awhile) it's 6-8 weeks, so it's an improvement. To us in the sane state however this is a huge setback.

[pete1]

Duncan, reason we in VIC freak out about 28 days, is because our second and further PTAs are issued in more or less minutes. It's the same day gun purchase as long as you already own a firearm. So to take a step back like that is just crazy to us. I've been told that in WA (read: wait awhile) it's 6-8 weeks, so it's an improvement. To us in the sane state however this is a huge setback.

It will be worst for WA it will be 28 days before they look at it so 4+6+ 10 weeks

[duncan61]

I agree with you I have changed my attitude.If you already have centre fire rifles you should be able to acquire more with the minimum of fuss.

[<<Genesis93>>]

As mentioned the existing NFA calls for 28days for all permits....... in Vic it was always limited to the first firearm (and licence)..... there is absolutely ZERO logic to justify a wait for a firearm WHEN YOU ALREADY HAVE ONE IN THE SAFE..... by reasoning its a "cooling down period" [i so detest that inference that LAFOs only buy guys, or indeed buy guns when theyre pissed off at their ostensibly female partners.....]

Of course I've mentioned elsewhere that the 96 NFA refers to the intended reasoning for the 28days as:

that the issue of a permit should be subject to a waiting period of at least 28 days to enable appropriate checks to be made on licensees in order to ascertain whether circumstances have occurred since the issuing of the original licence which would render the licensee unsuitable to possess the firearm or which would render the licensee ineligible for that type of firearm.

So really, given the state of tech and interconnectivity there is no argument to maintain the 28days......just as Vic take from minutes to an hour or a little more to run the 'checks'...

Of course the 2017 version has been updated to take into account the changes in actual tech (as opposed to fantasy tech a la Adler);

Jurisdictions agree that the issuing of a permit must be subject to a waiting period of at least 28 days to enable appropriate checks to be made on licensees in order to ascertain whether circumstances have occurred since the issuing of the original licence which would render the licensee unsuitable to possess the firearm or which would render the licensee ineligible for that type of firearm.

That current for the sharped eyed among us, the only change is that the issue of the permit becomes the 'issuing' of a permit....no doubt some consultant was paid big bucks to add the 'ng' and of course remove the 'e'... luckily he used spell checker...

[juststarting]

Seriously though, would love Ethanboris to weigh in here...

[Heckler303]

Ahh good, lets take a look...


Five seconds later:

[BluEsky]

Heckler303 One can only agree with you! It is by Design the start of the Firearm Grab, and is the Thin edge of the Wedge and the start of the slope!

. ..

[BluEsky]

[quote="juststarting"]Seriously though, would love Ethanboris to weigh in here...[/quote :

Will you be OK? I think we All need to hear from the SF&F Party!

[bigM]

https://www.facebook.com/pbaimportsau/posts/1450973111604043

Dear Paul.

I refer to our various conferences of even date concerning the brand new “National Firearms Agreement” of 16 February 2017 (“The February 2017 NFA”)

I am of the view that the “February 2017 NFA” makes illegal handgun disciplines other than those handgun disciplines that form part of either the Olympic Games or the Commonwealth Games.

There has been a significant omission from the February 2017 NFA, which formed part of the original National Firearms Agreement dated 10 May 1996, through the removal of the words “or World Championships” from the definition of “Genuine Reason” to apply for a handgun license. For ease of reference, I will refer to the original National Firearms Agreement as the May 1996 NFA.

Clause / Item 3 of the May 1996 NFA set out the various “Genuine Reasons” for owning, possessing or using a firearm.

The first bulleted dot point on page 3 of that agreement prescribed:
“Sporting shooters with valid membership of an approved club (defined as participants in showing sports recognised in the charters of such major sporting events as the Commonwealth Games, Olympic Games or World Championships).;

Paragraph 7 of the February 2017 NFA prescribes the following:

“Jurisdictions will restrict the importation, possession and use of handguns for sporting purposes to individuals meeting recognised sporting shooter classifications in the Olympic and ` Commonwealth Games and for other accredited events that meet the conditions in paragraph 14(c)).”

Paragraph 14(c) of the February 2017 NFA prescribes the following:-

“Handguns with a calibre greater than .38” but no greater than .45” are permitted only where shooters are competing in the two accredited events knows as Metallic Silhouette and Single (Western) Action.”

Of Concern are the following:-

A) The International Practical Shooting Confederation (“IPSC”) discipline is neither an Olympic Sport or a Commonwealth Games Sport.

B) The National Rifle Association (“NRA”) discipline is neither an Olympic Sport or a Commonwealth Games Sport.

C) The “Service Pistol” Events administered by “Pistol Australia” (25 yard service, 50 yard service and WA 1500 events) are neither Olympic or Commonwealth Games sports.

D) 50 meter “Free Pistol” is no longer an Olympic Sport.

E) “Double Trap” (Shotgun) is being removed from the next Olympic Games in Tokyo.

ALL of these events are shot at a World Championship level and are heavily patronised by Australian Shooters.

My view is that paragraph 7 of the February 2017 NFA makes possession and use of handguns in events that are not Olympic or Commonwealth Games Sports now illegal. None of the IPSC, NRA or Service Matches are mentioned in paragraph 14(c) of the February 2017 NFA.
In my view, urgent overtures need to be made at a Commonwealth and State Political Level to amend paragraph 7 to reinsert the “World Championships” clause from the May 1996 NFA OR include the IPSC, NRA, Free Pistol and Service Pistol disciplines in paragraph 14(c).

To these ends, I strongly recommend calling an urgent meeting of the “Dealers’ Association” as well as alerting “Pistol Australia” to the ramifications of paragraphs 7 and 14(c) of the 16 February 2017 NRA to their participants.

Similarly, urgent and immediate attention and action needs to be taken at both a State and Commonwealth Political Level. It is my experience that if this is only confined to attempting to deal with the NSW regulatory body without Political involvement, the affected disciplines will cease to exist.

To these ends, I recommend urgent correspondence with Federal Senator David Leyonhjelm, the NSW Shooters and Fishers Party and other sympathetic political entities.
Additionally, all must think of the ramifications of this new NFA - are the various governments going to compensate owners of firearms AND owners of firearms businesses for the massive losses that will flow from this new NFA?

There also seems to have been no consultation of the affected persons. Perhaps this is reticent of the ill fated Grey Hound ban as recently abandoned by the NSW parliament. That result was only achieved with both Political and Public pressure. To these ends, all affected persons and clubs should be mobilised into action.

Kindly refer to the writer should any points of clarification be necessary.

W.J Wilcher
Barrister.
HB Higgins Chambers
Level 6, 82 Elizabeth Street, Sydney.

20 February 2017