Is An Assault Charge A/B Prohibitive?

Questions about Victorian gun and ammunition laws. Victorian Firearms Act 1996.

Re: Is An Assault Charge A/B Prohibitive?

Post by Gwion » 12 Jul 2017, 5:51 pm

RoginaJack wrote:Have you had a talk with "Legal Aid"? A chat should not cost anything.


And they'll tell you to take the diversion but, by all means, have the conversation.
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Re: Is An Assault Charge A/B Prohibitive?

Post by WatchyShooter » 12 Jul 2017, 6:45 pm

Gwion wrote:
RoginaJack wrote:Have you had a talk with "Legal Aid"? A chat should not cost anything.


And they'll tell you to take the diversion but, by all means, have the conversation.


They would most likely push you towards that, but they could help you ensure you have your ducks in a row and your ass covered, document everything and make sure your okay.

Me for example
A prosecution in court for a 'simple cannabis offences' can only be commenced after the person has been given an expiation notice [Controlled Substances Act 1984 s 45A(2)]. In the event that a summons is issued instead, then the court hearing should be adjourned to enable the Police to give the person the opportunity of being served with an expiation notice and expiating the offence. This is desirable as, if the matter is expiated, no criminal record results.


I should never of had my fine show on my record, as it’s not been through court and even if it had been, the fines been paid which means no criminal record results.

But is that the case, of course not, now I’ve got a job on the line due to the background check maybe showing this up, and I feel if I hadn’t just paid it or made sure the proper procedures were followed I wouldn’t be in this issue now, alas the stupidity of a 18 year old :D
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Re: Is An Assault Charge A/B Prohibitive?

Post by RoginaJack » 15 Jul 2017, 9:28 pm

I don't think it's that straight forward.
If the charge is not withdrawn and a Diversional Order is suggested, it must be recommended by the Police Informant etc. and there still may be a court hearing. Do you know what the proposed diversion order consists of - X hours of...., attend a course, counselling etc. Do you by chance have names of the people that witnessed the actions by the Victim, if so get references and from work etc as well.
My suggestion is to seek legal advice, if only to organise your paperwork etc.
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PS. It is not only a licence that maybe at risk; it could be far more at stake. (That's looking on the dark side BUT...Be prepared!) :!:
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Re: Is An Assault Charge A/B Prohibitive?

Post by Tiger650 » 18 Jul 2017, 3:46 pm

Legal Aid in Victoria are extremely left, mention a firearms licence application to them and they may well misrepresent you, the ends justify the means with leftists.
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Re: Is An Assault Charge A/B Prohibitive?

Post by RoginaJack » 19 Jul 2017, 1:01 pm

Tiger650 wrote:Legal Aid in Victoria are extremely left, mention a firearms licence application to them and they may well misrepresent you, the ends justify the means with leftists.


IMO, A firearms licence application has bugger all to do with this; the charge is Assault, that is what he is charged with and I fail to see what or why Vic. legal aid needs to know.
The main focus and discussion with legal aid should be on the Assault charge, nothing else.
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Re: Is An Assault Charge A/B Prohibitive?

Post by stomit85 » 06 May 2019, 6:15 pm

Did you end up getting your license application processed successfully with a diversion order? Did it hold things up considerably?
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Re: Is An Assault Charge A/B Prohibitive?

Post by GojiraSteve » 07 May 2019, 2:42 pm

I think I'd shoot for not guilty mate.

The diverted conviction might only be visible to "magistrates and above" but you'd want to be real sure about what "above" actually means.

Like say if you wanted to emigrate to another country, is the government obligated to spill the beans on you to US immigration or whoever because of some treaty?

What if you want a job with the federal government requiring security clearance? (bear in mind even contract tradies or the cleaners who vacuum federal government offices need this). Is that type of background check exempt from the diversion?

If there's an exception or exceptions to the claim that this won't come back to haunt you I'd want a bloody comprehensive list.

At the end of the day if you plead not guilty and lose I reckon they'd probably divert it anyway. #thisisnotlegaladvice

EDIT: s**t I just realised how old this thread is. Hope old mate went alright in the end.
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Re: Is An Assault Charge A/B Prohibitive?

Post by stomit85 » 07 May 2019, 3:27 pm

I'm going through a very similar thing at the moment regarding the Diversion Order.

I was charged for assault and assault in presence of another back in October 2014. Long story short - I told a competitor in my industry to halt doing unethical actions against my clients or else I would target his clients. Because I threatened to target his clients and my gain is monetary, it was labelled Assault. A blackmail charge was also pending but dropped - thankfully.

Prior to my court appearance I was advised by my lawyer and police prosecutor that due to the nature of my crime a Diversion Order is sufficient. My understanding was that I pay a donation to wherever the Magistrate saw fit and I write a letter of apology to the victim and police and it all goes away as though nothing happened.

I submitted my gun license application in March. I have since spoken to the lady in the processing department and she has mentioned that I am still not approved and paperwork will be sent outlining they're concerns about my past court appearance in 2014. I understand that I caught her off guard when I called her but she was very vague with her response.

I get what I did in the past was reckless and any convictions of assault automatically make you a prohibited person. However, my understanding is that I would not be considered a prohibited person even though the offence committed was an indictable offence, a diversion order is not considered a finding of guilt according to section 4C of the criminal procedure Act 2008. (that's from content.police.vic.gov.au under applying for firearms page).

I'm really wanting to ask if anyone has gone through this sought of process in Victoria.

Thanks.
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Re: Is An Assault Charge A/B Prohibitive?

Post by Patriot » 07 May 2019, 4:57 pm

Sounds like they don’t want to licence you and are going to use the “not in the public interest” reason.

I had a mate in similar circumstances to yourself and the coppers up here knocked him back. It only takes a charge regardless of guilt.

Good luck.
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Re: Is An Assault Charge A/B Prohibitive?

Post by stomit85 » 07 May 2019, 5:59 pm

That’ll be a real shame for me if that’s the case. I was kind of hoping it’s standard practise to query everyone who has had a court appearance.
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Re: Is An Assault Charge A/B Prohibitive?

Post by Blr243 » 07 May 2019, 8:17 pm

I once got charged for something I did not do and def not violence related. I had a massive battle with the police for four months and ended up reporting the police prosecutor to the crime and misconduct commission ....In the end they dropped the charge and the officer who charged me resigned. ...and I still have a clean slate. The police prosecutor now does not have a clean slate. It shows on his record that he has been investigated by police ethical standards ....I learnt a lot from all that bulls**t. If you have confidence in your character and honesty Never back down. Don't plead guilty ... Fight it. A conviction is unlikely based on the facts you have submitted. And if u do get convicted just continue with your application honestly. If they look into the circumstances of your conviction they will see that you roughed up a dead s**t. And at the end of the day if your ab is refused based on the incident that's tough but at least you can lie straight in bed ....... It's hard sometimes but next time a situation arises you really gotta Try to keep your hands in your pockets .......I don't use public transport. Trains have always got ferals on board
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Re: Is An Assault Charge A/B Prohibitive?

Post by TassieTiger » 07 May 2019, 8:42 pm

stomit85 wrote:That’ll be a real shame for me if that’s the case. I was kind of hoping it’s standard practise to query everyone who has had a court appearance.


It can be a tough ride - things that were done 10+ years ago in some cases comes back to bite...
If you were considering obtaining a fire arm for hunting, why not buy a decent compound bow to scratch the itch whilst you try and sought the firearms side? It’s a legitimately satisfying way of obtaining meat for the freezer and it’s bloody challenging....? Just a suggestion.
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Re: Is An Assault Charge A/B Prohibitive?

Post by stomit85 » 07 May 2019, 9:06 pm

TassieTiger wrote:
stomit85 wrote:That’ll be a real shame for me if that’s the case. I was kind of hoping it’s standard practise to query everyone who has had a court appearance.


It can be a tough ride - things that were done 10+ years ago in some cases comes back to bite...
If you were considering obtaining a fire arm for hunting, why not buy a decent compound bow to scratch the itch whilst you try and sought the firearms side? It’s a legitimately satisfying way of obtaining meat for the freezer and it’s bloody challenging....? Just a suggestion.


Good suggestion but I’m more interested in going to the range and spending half a day there. Don’t get me wrong - I have hunted and enjoyed it but it’s not my priority.
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Re: Is An Assault Charge A/B Prohibitive?

Post by mickb » 07 May 2019, 10:00 pm

Ita another indication of our society going to crap really. Once upon a time, lets say the 80's where there were only half the police per population people generally policed themselves more. Teachers whipped kids, your dad kicked the butt of the kid knocking bins over , and if some guy played up on a train or accosted women in the street he got a punch on the nose. It was like having 6 million amateur police on duty 24/7.

And it worked. Life was not a bllodbath of violence then either, it was actually less violent. Because the threat of violence and social displeasure and being marked as a trouble maker kept a lot of bullcrap from ever happening. Much like the threat of jail works as a deterrant even if you haven't been there yourself, the threat of moderate corporal summary punishment worked wonders in sorting out 90% of lifes smart asses and assholes before they ever become a problem. In the worlplace, at school, on the trai , in nightclubs, on the beach.

Then the powers that be decided on the basis of ther small percentage of people who went to far (the minority rules leftist manifesto) or actively broke the law, ALL of us should have powers of social correction removed, and all such powers should be replaced by just a few thousand police.

Police who can't be everywhere at once, and even apart from crime can't sort out smart asses at work, won't be there to stop the junky on the train spitting, have no effect on the juveniles making a mockery of the entire system with street crime.

But this is what the powers that be want. A people stripped of individual judgement, sitting around calling on the authorities to make things safe.

What really annoys me to is the increasing fashion of disenfranchisement after punishemtn. Its like a reversion to medievakl style branding for committing of crimes. The fact that crimes of passion or lack of judgement can and will follow you as a permanent record for the rest of your life. We got rid of branding people with hot irons a long time ago for the very reason one of the precepts of judicial punishment is rehabilitation, not to create a second class citizen.

At least we are not quite as bad as America yet where their ' ex-felons' have to declare their previous convictions for any job and may not be able to vote again.

What the hell happened to our society?
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Re: Is An Assault Charge A/B Prohibitive?

Post by Member-Deleted » 08 May 2019, 12:21 am

Well Mickb I see the problem as society is feeding off it self years ago we listened to the wireless and read comic books about Buck Rogers flying a rocket to the moon and landing everybody said it would never happen '' It did'' we are now saying we are going to loose our rights and ''we are'' and this will keep happening until society gets its faith back in itself we use a code now called ''Majority rules'' when we have a vote I don't know who ever decided that the majority is always right just look at the Government of today people have had enough of how they operate and disregard peoples lives for power then you get the Do Gooders who think their kids can do no evil at school so they worked to remove all discipline handling from teachers we now have teachers leaving schools and their lively hood from being bashed by pupils the abuse from pupils and parents these kids are growing up thinking they are always right and the world owes them something if it doesn't go their way then violence or drugs or both combined is the outlet society as a whole has to regain its self worth and moral grounds before things will start changing ie. vote for the people who will make good change for the country and us not for what we or they can shove into our or their pockets we are not learning from the past mistakes we are just finding new ways around them and letting our morals slip away and mickb you are right about the old ways it was good then because there was still respect for others because we understood how hard it was for others to get something past wars ,comradeship everybody saw each other face to face most times but today this has gone almost completely we talk to each other by phone ,computer, email, and so on rarely face to face you don't even have to go to a doctor anymore you can pull them up on computer for a general visit it affects small country town heavily they loose their cricket teams ,football teams , shooting clubs, almost everything is affected by no face value bugga me you can even date on line now, these are some of the things causing the decline of society there are umpteen more but these will do for a start I can't see any change in the near future if the pollies keep chasing votes for power and these problems aren't addressed and people keep voting for the wrong parties and parties that have been there long enough to make a difference but failed badly and they have been in long enough and enough times for us to realise they are of no use to us yet we keep voting them in
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Re: Is An Assault Charge A/B Prohibitive?

Post by straightshooter » 08 May 2019, 7:46 am

hissandhum
Everything (and I do mean everything) depends on what you you have said when interviewed by the Police!
Yes you will need a solicitor, one that specialises in or has had proven success in criminal matters.
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Re: Is An Assault Charge A/B Prohibitive?

Post by hzj80 » 08 May 2019, 9:10 am

Hopefully he found a solicitor two years ago...
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