NSW bans more guns, whaaa?

Questions about New South Wales gun and ammunition laws. NSW Firearms Act 1996.

Re: NSW bans more guns, whaaa?

Post by Daddybang » 06 Sep 2017, 6:59 am

andreweden wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:
andreweden wrote:In all seriousness, if this appearance stuff is to be taken seriously, if you have it ceracoted any colour other than white, FDE, olive drab or black, surely it no longer replicates the appearance of a military weapon?


I strongly agree.
That's why the appearance rule is stupid.


I guess I really don't care if it has to be safety orange if it just stops a silly argument. The law won't be changed, it just needs to be interpreted correctly.



Looks like someone was listening!. :lol: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

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Re: NSW bans more guns, whaaa?

Post by Gwion » 06 Sep 2017, 5:51 pm

on_one_wheel wrote:Just think how much safer well be with such ridiculous restrictions... and the children, think about them to :roll:

I whish the USA would hurry up and make Australia their fifty first state.


No f***ing way!
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Re: NSW bans more guns, whaaa?

Post by Gwion » 06 Sep 2017, 6:02 pm

Elmer wrote:
on_one_wheel wrote:Just think how much safer well be with such ridiculous restrictions... and the children, think about them to :roll:

I whish the USA would hurry up and make Australia their fifty first state.

How cool would that be and adopting their constitution :drinks:


See above.

You have to realise we would also be strapped with a $7.25/hr minimum wage and s health care system that means certain bankruptcy for serious illness unless you are independently wealthy into the double or triple digits of millions of dollars...

Not a trade off I'd make just for easier access to toys that go bang.
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Re: NSW bans more guns, whaaa?

Post by Oldbloke » 06 Sep 2017, 6:04 pm

Gwion wrote:
Elmer wrote:
on_one_wheel wrote:Just think how much safer well be with such ridiculous restrictions... and the children, think about them to :roll:

I whish the USA would hurry up and make Australia their fifty first state.

How cool would that be and adopting their constitution :drinks:


See above.

You have to realise we would also be strapped with a $7.25/hr minimum wage and s health care system that means certain bankruptcy for serious illness unless you are independently wealthy into the double or triple digits of millions of dollars...

Not a trade off I'd make just for easier access to toys that go bang.


+1
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Re: NSW bans more guns, whaaa?

Post by bladeracer » 06 Sep 2017, 6:10 pm

Gwion wrote:
on_one_wheel wrote:I whish the USA would hurry up and make Australia their fifty first state.


No f***ing way!


We have better firearm laws than some US states already!
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Re: NSW bans more guns, whaaa?

Post by Baronvonrort » 06 Sep 2017, 6:27 pm

Gwion wrote:
Elmer wrote:
on_one_wheel wrote:Just think how much safer well be with such ridiculous restrictions... and the children, think about them to :roll:

I whish the USA would hurry up and make Australia their fifty first state.

How cool would that be and adopting their constitution :drinks:


See above.

You have to realise we would also be strapped with a $7.25/hr minimum wage and s health care system that means certain bankruptcy for serious illness unless you are independently wealthy into the double or triple digits of millions of dollars...

Not a trade off I'd make just for easier access to toys that go bang.


The minimum wage is for unskilled labor so those with skills do earn a lot more, if you have a job you're covered for health insurance.
I have only been to the doctors twice in the last 20 years, I don't eat junk and lead a healthy lifestyle so not worried about healthcare. I am concerned about government increasing taxes on things like smokes and considering a sugar tax which means socialised healthcare does result in governments giving us sin taxes.The Alcopos tax was supposed to reduce binge drinking it did nothing for that yet raised several billion in taxes. A 1.7 L bottle of Jim Beam Black label was $24.99 in the bottle shop we frequented.

I just came back from the USA, Massachusetts has a mandatory 18 month jail term for illegal possession of a firearm, much tougher on people who shouldn't have guns than us considering Mick Gatto was fined $2500 for a loaded sawn off shotgun.

Everything is much cheaper it makes me realise how much our thieving politicians are taxing us on everything.A new Honda Accord is $23K.

Massachusetts has legalised pot the young students smoke it in the street in Harvard square, they are taxing it at 20% they expect to raise $200 million in the second year making it a billion dollar a year industry from just under 7 million people.
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Re: NSW bans more guns, whaaa?

Post by Member-Deleted » 07 Sep 2017, 12:20 am

They're banning this rifle for looks alone nothing more
This certainly puts new meaning to the old saying of ( If only looks could kill )
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Re: NSW bans more guns, whaaa?

Post by Daddybang » 07 Sep 2017, 7:33 am

This is an absolute load of bullsh@t . I really believe that it's time for a national day of protest. :thumbsup:
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Re: NSW bans more guns, whaaa?

Post by Gwion » 07 Sep 2017, 8:39 am

bladeracer wrote:
Gwion wrote:
on_one_wheel wrote:I whish the USA would hurry up and make Australia their fifty first state.


No f***ing way!


We have better firearm laws than some US states already!


Exactly.
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Re: NSW bans more guns, whaaa?

Post by Gwion » 07 Sep 2017, 9:15 am

Baronvonrort wrote:
The minimum wage is for unskilled labor so those with skills do earn a lot more, if you have a job you're covered for health insurance.
I have only been to the doctors twice in the last 20 years, I don't eat junk and lead a healthy lifestyle so not worried about healthcare. I am concerned about government increasing taxes on things like smokes and considering a sugar tax which means socialised healthcare does result in governments giving us sin taxes.The Alcopos tax was supposed to reduce binge drinking it did nothing for that yet raised several billion in taxes. A 1.7 L bottle of Jim Beam Black label was $24.99 in the bottle shop we frequented.

I just came back from the USA, Massachusetts has a mandatory 18 month jail term for illegal possession of a firearm, much tougher on people who shouldn't have guns than us considering Mick Gatto was fined $2500 for a loaded sawn off shotgun.

Everything is much cheaper it makes me realise how much our thieving politicians are taxing us on everything.A new Honda Accord is $23K.

Massachusetts has legalised pot the young students smoke it in the street in Harvard square, they are taxing it at 20% they expect to raise $200 million in the second year making it a billion dollar a year industry from just under 7 million people.


1/ Of course skilled labour gets paid more, hence they are not on minimum wage. Unskilled work needs to be carried out as well, so do you think someone who washes dishes or waits tables or mixes mud for a bricky should work for $7.25, which is $290 for a 40hr working week? No one can afford to live on that and you'd struggle to make ends meet on this pay rate even if you worked 80hr week. Hell, $290/w is considered cheap rent these days; imagine being a single parent of 2-3 kids, trying to pay rent & feed your kids with no time or money to undertake training to be able to find a better paying job.

2/ You have health care while in a job but how long can you hold a job and i think you will find this does not apply in most minimum wage scenarios. So, you have a job and cancer develops despite your healthy life style. Your 2 in 20year visits to the doctor become 20 in 1year, compounded by treatments that are charged at the premium market rate because health is a business... You are now too sick to work and lose your job and health care.....
We can see where this is going and it is extremely common in the US.

3/ Yes, i also disagree with what you refer to as "sin" tax but moreover i disagree with how our taxes are spent rather than paying them.

4/ Everything is cheaper because low prices are underwritten by people living in poverty despite working a full time job (or two).

5/ Not sure of your point about the legalised pot...

Finally, if we were to "be made the newest State in the US" there is no guarantee our gun laws would significantly change because the US Federal system has not much control over it's member states beyond ensuring the constitution is enacted. So, there would likely be a theoretical "right to bear arms" but the same laws would stay in place with added barriers to licencing and acquisition to deter people from employing their "right".

In stead of wanting to become American, we should be looking at how we can improve our own political system and remain Australia.

Just my take on it, obviously YMMV.
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Re: NSW bans more guns, whaaa?

Post by bigfellascott » 07 Sep 2017, 10:05 am

They will have to ban all the ol clunkers out there as they not only look military but are military!!
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Re: NSW bans more guns, whaaa?

Post by doc » 07 Sep 2017, 10:07 am

Elmer wrote:
on_one_wheel wrote:Just think how much safer well be with such ridiculous restrictions... and the children, think about them to :roll:

I whish the USA would hurry up and make Australia their fifty first state.

How cool would that be and adopting their constitution :drinks:


Make Australia their 51st state - I wouldn't be that keen or interested.

However - adopting their constitution (or major parts of it) - that's another matter! I find the US constitution to be quite attractive - especially with it's attempt to try and keep the government accountable to it's citizens. They new tyranny, they foresaw tyrants in the future, and I have a lot of respect for what they have established in the constitution as a result.

Sadly it seems more people in Australia are complacent and over-trusting of most western governments (with an attitude that seems to indicate that tyrannic governments in the west are a thing of the past, it'll never happen again :roll: ) to ever see it pushed forward. Yet we seem to have more and more rights stripped away from us as the government finds more ways to distrust it's own constituents.
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Re: NSW bans more guns, whaaa?

Post by Member-Deleted » 07 Sep 2017, 10:43 am

Its about time to vote away from the big political parties and give the smaller ones a go ,they seem to be more in touch with the practical side of society
Too much power has blurred the sight of larger parties and they tend to do anything to stay in power like lie, cheat and slander these are not traits of a
party that can make rational and practical decisions for the people or country as a whole, hence they always seem to have a hidden agenda on whatever
will boost their power to stay in office

These gun buy backs will never work because they target the wrong people , crims are not going to walk in and hand in their guns and only a fool would think
they would which makes me think we have a lot of fools in our political system
My take on this is no semi auto's unless they're treated like hand guns same rules after that it should be just registration, ( if you need a semi auto to hunt with
then you need some serious practice or take up another sport )
Some gun haters will argue ammo capacity, semi auto's and all they can get their hands on but I say to them pigs ass give the average joe blow off the street
a machine gun with a box of 1000 bullets and they wouldn't hit a bull in the butt at 10 paces its the person behind the gun not the gun
The look of the gun is nothing because most of Australia know that the semi auto version of this gun is illegal or are the gun laws not working ?
John Howard caused this phobia of guns and I hope he goes down in history as the a-hole he is by trying to take away a past time sport that has been around for hundreds of years

Now to end my rant this is what really worries me, Countries and governments see guns as an asset when it comes to taking power away or getting power
from other countries even if it costs innocent peoples lives, law enforcement wearing them to enforce laws is ok but when law abiding citizens have a sport that involves guns its not ok WHY? I doubt even a pollie could tell you or if they did you couldn't believe the answer
It was a sad day for shooters when Howard scared the living-b -jesus out of the people who were neither against or with guns but never voted against them
That day Howard turned law abiding citizens into criminals until proven otherwise is not ok and this scares me, guns now what next ?
Smaller parties have to fight harder and be more truthful to survive and seem more tuned into people and the country
This could be the way of the future for instance the powers said even up until votes were being taken Donald couldn't win in America
and when he did then the world was going to fall apart but we're still here maybe the big powers aren't the be it all end it all they're supposed to be
Vote small stand tall '' lol ''
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Re: NSW bans more guns, whaaa?

Post by bladeracer » 07 Sep 2017, 1:48 pm

grandadbushy wrote:My take on this is no semi auto's unless they're treated like hand guns same rules after that it should be just registration, ( if you need a semi auto to hunt with then you need some serious practice or take up another sport )


I am thoroughly fed up with FUDDs that insist wanting to hunt with a semi-auto must mean you just want to empty the mag at everything that moves.
A semi-auto is used _exactly_ the same way as a single shot, or a bolt rifle. The only difference is that you don't need to change your grip to fire another shot if needed. Surely you must've owned semi-autos years ago like the rest of us? Did you spray the countryside with bullets when you were hunting?
None of us even NEED a single-shot rifle to hunt, we could use sticks or rocks, but a rifle is more effective and more humane, a semi-auto rifle just increases that effectiveness.
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Re: NSW bans more guns, whaaa?

Post by brett1868 » 07 Sep 2017, 3:25 pm

Oldbloke wrote:"n I'll explore the option of Cerakoting the chassis with some less scary colours such as dog dick red, baby spew yellow or frozen balls blue...."

Less scary but won't you get pulled over for a road worthy or speeding then. :sarcasm: :lol:


Road worthy....Doubt it cause the Ford Rattler's chassis is difficult to see.
Speeding...No chance, I gave up speed in the late 80's when the price went up :lol:
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Re: NSW bans more guns, whaaa?

Post by Daddybang » 07 Sep 2017, 3:31 pm

bladeracer wrote:
grandadbushy wrote:My take on this is no semi auto's unless they're treated like hand guns same rules after that it should be just registration, ( if you need a semi auto to hunt with then you need some serious practice or take up another sport )


I am thoroughly fed up with FUDDs that insist wanting to hunt with a semi-auto must mean you just want to empty the mag at everything that moves.
A semi-auto is used _exactly_ the same way as a single shot, or a bolt rifle. The only difference is that you don't need to change your grip to fire another shot if needed. Surely you must've owned semi-autos years ago like the rest of us? Did you spray the countryside with bullets when you were hunting?
None of us even NEED a single-shot rifle to hunt, we could use sticks or rocks, but a rifle is more effective and more humane, a semi-auto rifle just increases that effectiveness.


I don't need a semi auto but I would own one in a heartbeat. In my opinion it should not matter what type of firearms ya own once ya been found to be a safe and responsible person. :drinks:
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Re: NSW bans more guns, whaaa?

Post by brett1868 » 07 Sep 2017, 3:34 pm

My take on semi autos....
Rimfire - Cat A and no restriction as per the old days, maybe 10 shot mag limit as a compromise to the leftards.
Centre Fire - Cat B but can only be purchased in 2nd year of being a license holder and maybe some sort of accreditation where available then no restrictions. This should sort the dedicated shooters from the wannabe Rambo's. 30 shot mag limit as per above reason.
Primary Producer - No restrictions on rifles and allowed at least 2 hand guns for humane stock euthanasia.
Hand Guns, no caliber limits and hunting accepted as a genuine reason for ownership but tied in with a pistol club target membership to ensure a certain level of training where possible.
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Re: NSW bans more guns, whaaa?

Post by Gwion » 07 Sep 2017, 6:51 pm

I like your thinking, Brett but i lean more toward a drivers licence style process:

L plates: cat A & B on completion of safety course and basic practical as is now. Standard licencing and no requirement for further licencing & testing obligations.
P plates: after 1 year, allowed 22lr semi-auto & upon completion of practical safe handling & shooting test
Full licence: after 2 years on "P plates" allowed center-fire & shotgun semi auto on completion of safe handling & shooting test. current cat C storage required.

I'd suggest the safe handling testing be at a nominal cost so as not to be burdensome but see it as necessary to allay police & public fears and to weed out those who have not put in the time and effort to develop basic competencies in firearms handling and usage. This way everyone gets a chance to work towards a semi auto and people can realistically aim to shoot related target events.

I'll just go get my asbestos suit on now...
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Re: NSW bans more guns, whaaa?

Post by Member-Deleted » 07 Sep 2017, 8:26 pm

Come on bladeracer I didn't say I was totally against semi auto's simply possession under guidelines this is certainly better than what you've got now
Just take what you can now and it may get better down the line providing we get a government that thinks with its head not its butt
And to answer your question wether I had ever had a semi auto rifle the answer is no but I have shot a mates semi auto before they banned them
and wasn't fussed on it but that's just me
No doubt you could have some fun with them
Also its only my take on this matter not everybody elses and I stick by it
again not ban it bring it back with rules is a start don't you think ?, rather than not have one at all

Cheers
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Re: NSW bans more guns, whaaa?

Post by bladeracer » 07 Sep 2017, 8:32 pm

grandadbushy wrote:Come on bladeracer I didn't say I was totally against semi auto's simply possession under guidelines this is certainly better than what you've got now
Just take what you can now and it may get better down the line providing we get a government that thinks with its head not its butt
And to answer your question wether I had ever had a semi auto rifle the answer is no but I have shot a mates semi auto before they banned them
and wasn't fussed on it but that's just me
No doubt you could have some fun with them
Also its only my take on this matter not everybody elses and I stick by it
again not ban it bring it back with rules is a start don't you think ?, rather than not have one at all

Cheers


My comment was in reference to the condescending phrase FUDD's regularly trot out - "if you need a semi auto to hunt with then you need some serious practice or take up another sport".

You "aren't fussed on them" is exactly my point, why should we treat them differently from any other firearm?
I don't have any particular interest in owning semi-auto rifles nowadays, but that doesn't mean I might not change my mind and want to own them again.
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Re: NSW bans more guns, whaaa?

Post by Member-Deleted » 07 Sep 2017, 9:05 pm

The answer to that is they have been used in many shootings and killings and have been chosen so because of their rapid fire
Now you and I both know that any rifle put in the right hands can be shot pretty much as quick as semi auto
The question on '' Why should they be treated difference to other rifles '' well that's a question to ask the government
My reason for not being fussed on them is 1 I don't need one 2 i'd use too many bullets if I had one
What I said about needing practice was a figure of speech my old man said that to me when I wanted one at 12yr old
But you said that you may need a follow up shot does this mean you missed or missed the vital spot ' lol '
But I stand by getting them back with rules rather than what we have got now ,in saying that no rules would be better'

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Re: NSW bans more guns, whaaa?

Post by Oldbloke » 07 Sep 2017, 9:20 pm

68 » 07 Sep 2017, 15:34

"My take on semi autos....
Rimfire - Cat A and no restriction as per the old days, maybe 10 shot mag limit as a compromise to the leftards.
Centre Fire - Cat B but can only be purchased in 2nd year of being a license holder and maybe some sort of accreditation where available then no restrictions. This should sort the dedicated shooters from the wannabe Rambo's. 30 shot mag limit as per above reason."

In general terms this has always been my thought.
First year, bolt actions, break open, single shot.
Second year, semi, pumps, levers.
Third, year pistol.
But there could be many variations on this theme. I don't think calibres should come into it but if there were restrictions then many after first year allow the big stuff like 416, British mg.
Basically L plate, p plate, full licence system.
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Re: NSW bans more guns, whaaa?

Post by Baronvonrort » 07 Sep 2017, 9:51 pm

I don't agree with those who want rimfire semi auto in Cat A with 10 round magazine then proposing unlimited capacity for centrefire semi auto.
The magazine limit is 15 rounds for Cat A rimfires I would suggest sticking with that.
I would also move 5 round semi/pump/deadly rapid fire lever shotguns to Cat A

Cat C to include centrefire semi auto and shotguns with more than 5 rounds to allow primary producers a better choice and not have the proposed several year wait for Cat D like some suggest.
It was the Victorian Nationals MP who was also the police minister who lobbied Howard to keep semi auto rimfires to put stock down like he had to in a drought, if farmers have to do this they should not be limited to 10 round magazine let them have 25 round magazines.

Allow Cat H for hunting.

If we don't vote for shooting friendly political parties it will never happen, voting Labor/Liberal/Greens or Nationals will see things get much tougher for us.
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Re: NSW bans more guns, whaaa?

Post by knowsnothin » 07 Sep 2017, 10:02 pm

is there any evidence of a mass shooting from a rimfire semi auto rifle?
ever?

just seems like it was caught in the net.
90% of australians wouldn't know the difference between rimfire and centerfire.
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Re: NSW bans more guns, whaaa?

Post by Baronvonrort » 07 Sep 2017, 10:16 pm

knowsnothin wrote:is there any evidence of a mass shooting from a rimfire semi auto rifle?
ever?

just seems like it was caught in the net.
90% of australians wouldn't know the difference between rimfire and centerfire.


Hoddle St, Julian Knight used one,no deaths several wounded, those he killed were with other guns he had.
Our second worst mass shooting was done with a Cat A single shot bolt action .22

The Bob Geldof song I don't like Mondays was about a woman who did a school shooting with a 10/22 in the USA
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Re: NSW bans more guns, whaaa?

Post by Member-Deleted » 07 Sep 2017, 10:39 pm

Knowsnothing it falls under the semi auto umbrella and governments need nothing more than that
Mate we gun owners didn't write the rules so we must take what we can get and prevent more loss of firearms usage and what type of fire arm
is banned in the future
We all don't think the same but we're all on the same page as far as gun laws and ownership is concerned ( although who wants what rifle is a personal thing )
These law makers are testing the waters finding out what sort or backlash will come before the big hit at present it would be political suicide to
do everything at once so if the tide comes in slowly you don't realise its up to your waist until its possibly too late
Semi auto 22 cal banned then there is the one now possibly going to be banned for looking too much like a semi auto, What the hell are these people thinking ?
The next fancy dress party I might go as a law maker because if I look like one I am one ( NOT ) but that's what they're saying look bad , is bad ban it
There is a set of cattle yards up back been there since the 18 hundreds and they haven't got as much BULL ****** in them as what the government is trying to spin
to us on gun laws

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Re: NSW bans more guns, whaaa?

Post by Apollo » 08 Sep 2017, 2:06 am

Would it be a surprise that living in the country area. Knowing property owners that are really stuck in their ways, old...much older than me but really determined. To hear that quite a number do not have a firearms license, but they do have firearms and use them... semi auto, pump action, pistol etc... they will not conform to what they call stupid rules.

They do respect people nor have not hurt anyone. A firearm (even Pistol) is a Tool required in their work.

These are the people that when the new laws came in actually purchased a lot of firearms off those that were going to hand them in, paid better money too. They will always be there irrespective of what amnesty is around or what restrictions are or are not imposed. Respectable hard working people will always be that way.

Reminds me of a TV SHow... Moonshiners... Illegal and can't stop it.
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Re: NSW bans more guns, whaaa?

Post by Daddybang » 08 Sep 2017, 7:04 am

I have no problems with a multi step process to be able to get a semi like the p plate process that has been suggested. It all goes to show that the shooter is a safe and responsible user of firearms. .in my opinion this would work far better than the one day course we have now where the focus is on law and theory rather than practical. There are a few people that I know who have passed the current course that still have no idea and I would be very wary about shooting with them. :thumbsup:

Should add I don't think it should take years I reckon four months for each step is plenty
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Re: NSW bans more guns, whaaa?

Post by Member-Deleted » 08 Sep 2017, 8:38 am

The other day I watched a clip on tv about a school I think it was in south east Qld where the children are allowed to take their plastic guns to school
At school they have lockers to lock their guns away the same as you would do with real ones
Also they have to sit for an exam to gain a gun licence before being allowed to play at school with their gun
They have to check them out to play with them at lunch time then return them back to the lockers after lunch and lock them away
If they fail to lock them away they are given demerit points and when all points have been taken then 1 lunch play is taken away
They are given little safety exams from time to time with a little training
The school and children are from a rural area where guns are a every day need for farming and pro shooters
Now what a novel thing to have this as an every day thing in a school and train kids and have them grow up without a fear of guns and have a good understanding of gun safety
Maybe this should be looked at by the SSAA for the future, it certainly wouldn't do any harm
It may even win a lot more support from people
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Re: NSW bans more guns, whaaa?

Post by bladeracer » 08 Sep 2017, 9:27 am

knowsnothin wrote:is there any evidence of a mass shooting from a rimfire semi auto rifle?
ever?

just seems like it was caught in the net.
90% of australians wouldn't know the difference between rimfire and centerfire.


The was a girl with a 10/22 lived across the street from a school in the US a long while back, killed a teacher and wounded some kids I think - I'd have to look it up. Probably doesn't count as a massacre though.
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