Firearm theft laws

Questions about Queensland gun and ammunition laws. QLD Weapons Act 1990.

Firearm theft laws

Post by drizo » 04 Sep 2017, 1:43 pm

Take this for a scenario... someone knows you own firearms, say they follow you home from the range, get your address from an online store, whatever the case.. They bust into your home and force you to open the safe, the're violent people and threaten your wife, kids or dog..

I get that if the firearms are lawfully secured and they get stolen it's safe to assume that you should legally be all good, but what about in the case where you open the safe for the intruder?
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Re: Firearm theft laws

Post by bladeracer » 04 Sep 2017, 1:55 pm

drizo wrote:Take this for a scenario... someone knows you own firearms, say they follow you home from the range, get your address from an online store, whatever the case.. They bust into your home and force you to open the safe, the're violent people and threaten your wife, kids or dog..

I get that if the firearms are lawfully secured and they get stolen it's safe to assume that you should legally be all good, but what about in the case where you open the safe for the intruder?


If you are doing it under duress I don't believe you are in any way accountable.
Police constantly tell us to be nice, compliant victims, that we're only there to ensure the perpetrator is not injured or upset by our actions while we're in his work place.
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Re: Firearm theft laws

Post by AusTac » 04 Sep 2017, 1:57 pm

Bend over and present without lube, thats what they want after all, might even help them out the door, otherwise you'll be charged and sued if you uninvited guest hurts him/herself on the way out
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Re: Firearm theft laws

Post by trekin » 04 Sep 2017, 2:06 pm

Qld Criminal Code covers this sort of thing;

14 Stealing firearm for use in another indictable offence
If—
(a) the thing stolen is a firearm; and
(b) the offender steals the firearm intending that it be used
by anyone to commit an indictable offence;
the offender is liable to imprisonment for 14 years.

15 Stealing firearm or ammunition
If the thing stolen is a firearm or ammunition, the offender is
liable to imprisonment for 10 years.

Chapter 38 Stealing with
violence—extortion by threats


409 Definition of robbery
Any person who steals anything, and, at or immediately
before or immediately after the time of stealing it, uses or
threatens to use actual violence to any person or property in
order to obtain the thing stolen or to prevent or overcome
resistance to its being stolen, is said to be guilty of robbery.

411 Punishment of robbery
(1) Any person who commits the crime of robbery is liable to
imprisonment for 14 years.
(2) If the offender is or pretends to be armed with any dangerous
or offensive weapon or instrument, or is in company with 1 or
more other person or persons, or if, at or immediately before
or immediately after the time of the robbery, the offender
wounds or uses any other personal violence to any person, the
offender is liable to imprisonment for life.

412 Attempted robbery
(1) Any person who assaults any person with intent to steal
anything, and, at or immediately before or immediately after
the time of the assault, uses or threatens to use actual violence
to any person or property in order to obtain the thing intended
to be stolen, or to prevent or overcome resistance to its being
stolen, is guilty of a crime, and is liable to imprisonment for 7
years.
(2) If the offender is or pretends to be armed with any dangerous
or offensive weapon or instrument, or is in company with 1 or
more other person or persons, the offender is liable to
imprisonment for 14 years.
(3) If the offender is armed with any dangerous or offensive
weapon, instrument or noxious substance, and at or
immediately before or immediately after the time of the
assault the offender wounds, or uses other personal violence
to, any person by the weapon, instrument or noxious
substance, the offender is liable to imprisonment for life.

413 Assault with intent to steal
Any person who assaults any person with intent to steal
anything is guilty of a crime, and is liable to imprisonment for
3 years.

414 Demanding property with menaces with intent to steal
Any person who, with intent to steal anything, demands it
from any person with threats of any injury or detriment of any
kind to be caused to the other person, either by the offender or
by any other person, if the demand is not complied with, is
guilty of a crime, and is liable to imprisonment for 3 years.
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Re: Firearm theft laws

Post by trekin » 04 Sep 2017, 2:21 pm

AusTac wrote:Bend over and present without lube, thats what they want after all, might even help them out the door, otherwise you'll be charged and sued if you uninvited guest hurts him/herself on the way out

Don't know about other States, but that's not the go here in QLD.
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Re: Firearm theft laws

Post by GLS_1956 » 04 Sep 2017, 4:26 pm

Here in the USA things are pretty much like trekin put it. Of course we do have a few other courses of action which may be taken, however we are not required to resist.
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Re: Firearm theft laws

Post by AusTac » 04 Sep 2017, 6:07 pm

trekin wrote:
AusTac wrote:Bend over and present without lube, thats what they want after all, might even help them out the door, otherwise you'll be charged and sued if you uninvited guest hurts him/herself on the way out

Don't know about other States, but that's not the go here in QLD.


It's like the wild west down here at the moment mate, shootings, break ins you name it, Victorian's have been told " just be compliant during a home invasion "
Last edited by AusTac on 05 Sep 2017, 6:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Firearm theft laws

Post by pete1 » 04 Sep 2017, 7:09 pm

Maybe keep your hunting knives in the safe, seeing can't have loaded gun in there. You open it and scare them off or grab the gun and point it at them.
They prob wouldn't have a clue if its loaded.
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Re: Firearm theft laws

Post by Daddybang » 04 Sep 2017, 7:34 pm

Call me a pussy but if they got hold of my wife and/or my daughter I'd givem the rifles
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Re: Firearm theft laws

Post by Bigjobss » 04 Sep 2017, 8:22 pm

Daddybang wrote:Call me a pussy but if they got hold of my wife and/or my daughter I'd givem the rifles
:drinks:


I call you one smart cat.
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Re: Firearm theft laws

Post by Gwion » 04 Sep 2017, 10:51 pm

pete1 wrote:Maybe keep your hunting knives in the safe, seeing can't have loaded gun in there. You open it and scare them off or grab the gun and point it at them.
They prob wouldn't have a clue if its loaded.


The idea of scaring an attacker with any weapon, whether loaded or sharp, without actually employing that weapon with true violence is a fundamentally flawed fantasy.

You can replace any material possession but you cannot replace a life or well being of yourself or a loved one.
It may irk you to give in but sometimes it is the safest option. Sometimes your best or only option is to fight with every ounce of violence you can muster but that is not while your possessions are being demanded. These situations are not like a hollywood movie. Never escalate a situation that can be easily de-escalated.
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Re: Firearm theft laws

Post by Supaduke » 05 Sep 2017, 9:12 am

Problem with 'scaring' people is, what happens if it doesn't work? The Hollywood fantasy that as soon as you point a gun at someone they give up can put you in a very bad situation. It's also a fallacy that people can sue you if they are injured while illegally on your property during the commission of a crime.

You are allowed to use reasonable force to protect yourself and others.

Never wield a weapon unless you fully intend and are capable of using it.

As mentioned, it's only stuff, it can be replaced. No material item is worth dying or killing for.

The chances of an armed home invasion are extremely remote. The reality is you will not be prepared in any meaningful way to defend yourself against (most probably multiple) attackers. Thinking that waving a knife or a gun around will make them instantly give up is wishful thinking. Disregarding the law and having loaded firearms within easy reach is a legal disaster waiting to happen.

The old 'i was cleaning it when they broke in' excuse won't fly either.

I'm not suggesting you just lay down and accept whatever they do, just be aware of the real world consequences of escalation.
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Re: Firearm theft laws

Post by bigfellascott » 05 Sep 2017, 9:43 am

There was a fella in the Blue Mtns a year or so back who was forced to open is firearms safe, I think they pinched rifles and handguns from memory, I can't recall now if he was charged and lost his license but it's not uncommon for those firearms owners who are victims of crimes being charged and losing their licenses (crazy I know but it has happened). I know of a recent case where a fella went in side to do something before removing his rifle from his car and the rifle was stolen in that time and he was charged and license revoked from memory (I think he was pinged for not securing his firearm correctly) even tho it was secured in his vehicle (not sure exactly how it was secured in his vehicle) may have been on the back seat or in the boot or something anyway as far as I can tell it's up to how the law seems to be interpreted as to how it will turn out.

I also have a mate who was done for having a silencer and ammo stored in correctly and it cost him $10k to fight it in court and his license was suspended until the matter was dealt with but he got it back after the court case.
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Re: Firearm theft laws

Post by bladeracer » 05 Sep 2017, 10:30 am

Supaduke wrote:The chances of an armed home invasion are extremely remote. The reality is you will not be prepared in any meaningful way to defend yourself against (most probably multiple) attackers.


I do agree that the odds are remote, but it happened to me. I was woken up by a freshly-released drug addict jumping on my chest at two in the morning with a knife to my throat telling me I was going to die, not pleasant. The only thing that made him leave was the amount of my blood making him think he'd done what he intended, so he left.
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Re: Firearm theft laws

Post by doc » 05 Sep 2017, 12:35 pm

That scenario is in the back of my mind. That's why I keep an eye on anyone who's following me when I leave the range and head for home. Just because your paranoid doesn't mean you're wrong. ;)

It really doesn't take much effort to look in the review mirror and note any cars that stay with me, and I don't think it's over the top.

If they do, there's multiple options such as calling 000 whilst taking them on a long trip and get the cops to catch up with them, or going to a place which it appears the guns are stored at - such as police station, gun shop, etc - anywhere but your house. There are obviously other circumstances or ways they can get our details (such as the books sitting on counters at gun shops <sigh>) - so you can do things to lessen the risk, but thanks to the wisdom of our government, not eliminate.

If you're really worried about this occurring and want to brainstorm, I'll play along:

Another option is to get 2nd safe and store some old/bad firearms in there. Old as in rusted to hoot, not functioning, or ones that if they tried taking a shot out of might backfire on them 8-) - and keep your good firearms tucked away somewhere else in another safe that you don't disclose.

With the governments recommendation of "submit and comply" to breakins - there's little option to resist - just to avoid, use deception, or otherwise completely comply if no options are left.

If you have no family to worry about, and you were wanting to resist, and you're well capable (martial arts, ADF training, etc) - consider first that they may be vengeful when they get out of jail. (If they even go there) and they now know your address. Taking them out completely with you 'fearing for your life' might be the only option in that situation if you have the skills and means.

For the rest of us, maybe, just maybe one day we'll be given some authority to have some form of self defense on our own, but until then - it's give criminals what they want and maybe the police will catch up with them one day.

Thankfully these sorts of breakins seem to be very rare (specifically targeting LAFO in the way you've mentioned) - otherwise I'm sure the government would target us, and not the criminals as the default method dealing with these thugs.
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Re: Firearm theft laws

Post by AusTac » 05 Sep 2017, 2:06 pm

doc wrote:



If you have no family to worry about, and you were wanting to resist, and you're well capable (martial arts, ADF training, etc) - consider first that they may be vengeful when they get out of jail. (If they even go there) and they now know your address. Taking them out completely with you 'fearing for your life' might be the only option in that situation if you have the skills and means.
.


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Re: Firearm theft laws

Post by drizo » 05 Sep 2017, 6:56 pm

doc wrote:consider first that they may be vengeful when they get out of jail. (If they even go there) and they now know your address..


You raise a good point here
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