PTA Victoria - owners of 10+ firearms

Questions about Victorian gun and ammunition laws. Victorian Firearms Act 1996.

PTA Victoria - owners of 10+ firearms

Post by winton » 08 Dec 2017, 10:38 am

Does anyone have any info on this new regulation where owners of 10+ firearms are required to offer a reason why they need a new firearm before a PTA is issued?

Looks like more onerous regulations for legitimate firearms owners.
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Re: PTA Victoria - owners of 10+ firearms

Post by bladeracer » 08 Dec 2017, 11:01 am

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Re: PTA Victoria - owners of 10+ firearms

Post by bladeracer » 08 Dec 2017, 11:45 am

bentaz wrote:I have plenty more than 10 guns and had a permit for another shotgun approved yesterday.


Shotguns are Cat A though?
You don't need any reason to purchase Cat A.
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Re: PTA Victoria - owners of 10+ firearms

Post by marksman » 08 Dec 2017, 12:59 pm

it's a conspiracy :lol: :lol: :lol:

I was told the same thing about already owning more than 10 centerfire's for my last B class PTA application after it was knocked back
I did get the PTA after putting in a submission though,
the question I had to answer was "why does one of the already owned firearms not do the job this firerm would?"
its a pain and I believe to make it a bit harder so the sheeple will just not apply
the powers that be are not happy with the growth of the firearms owned by the public
I also believe its what we should be expecting to be made law in the future if it does not get jumped on now
but that is a theory :allegedly:
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Re: PTA Victoria - owners of 10+ firearms

Post by bladeracer » 08 Dec 2017, 1:12 pm

marksman wrote:it's a conspiracy :lol: :lol: :lol:

I was told the same thing about already owning more than 10 centerfire's for my last B class PTA application after it was knocked back
I did get the PTA after putting in a submission though,
the question I had to answer was "why does one of the already owned firearms not do the job this firerm would?"
its a pain and I believe to make it a bit harder so the sheeple will just not apply
the powers that be are not happy with the growth of the firearms owned by the public
I also believe its what we should be expecting to be made law in the future if it does not get jumped on now
but that is a theory :allegedly:


I also have more than ten Cat B and bought the RAR .223 last week. The PtA took more than a day which is the longest I've ever waited but I was not asked to provide any further information. I did get a visit from my DFO three days later so maybe that was instead of paperwork?
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Re: PTA Victoria - owners of 10+ firearms

Post by winton » 08 Dec 2017, 1:38 pm

bladeracer wrote:
I also have more than ten Cat B and bought the RAR .223 last week. The PtA took more than a day which is the longest I've ever waited but I was not asked to provide any further information. I did get a visit from my DFO three days later so maybe that was instead of paperwork?



Did the DFO give you warning that he was visiting?

Did he ask you for a reason why you wanted a .223?

Is this just a check on your storage situation?

Are you in suburbia or Rural?

I can imagine rural getting more leniency.
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Re: PTA Victoria - owners of 10+ firearms

Post by winton » 08 Dec 2017, 1:44 pm

marksman wrote:I did get the PTA after putting in a submission though,
the question I had to answer was "why does one of the already owned firearms not do the job this firerm would?"


What was your answer?

I think you might be right about it becoming law, but mind you this is part of a new interpretation of the law. ensuring people have a genuine reason.

It could also be the force getting tough with LRD for their internal transgressions which I have heard about.
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Re: PTA Victoria - owners of 10+ firearms

Post by bladeracer » 08 Dec 2017, 1:55 pm

winton wrote:Did the DFO give you warning that he was visiting?

Did he ask you for a reason why you wanted a .223?

Is this just a check on your storage situation?

Are you in suburbia or Rural?

I can imagine rural getting more leniency.


Nope. Came out unannounced on August 8th, then rocked up again last Saturday unannounced - I don't think they bother making appointments these days :-)
He didn't actually know about the .223, or the Turk Mauser I bought a few weeks before that. He only had the two lever actions on his list over what I had last time he was here. I also have my brother's ACT-registered Anschutz here which he took details of.
He did ask me the same questions about storage that he asked last time - the questions get ticked off his form so I'd guess he always asks them.
Rural farm property fifteen minutes from town.
He said that rural owners will be seeing more strict security requirements very soon.
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Re: PTA Victoria - owners of 10+ firearms

Post by marksman » 08 Dec 2017, 3:52 pm

winton wrote:
marksman wrote:I did get the PTA after putting in a submission though,
the question I had to answer was "why does one of the already owned firearms not do the job this firerm would?"


What was your answer?

I think you might be right about it becoming law, but mind you this is part of a new interpretation of the law. ensuring people have a genuine reason.

It could also be the force getting tough with LRD for their internal transgressions which I have heard about.


I agree, I have been hearing a few things lately as well

the answer I gave was that this rifle is a dedicated long distance shooting rifle that my others in sambar legal cal are not,
proven by photo of the rifle to show it is set up for F class
submitted by email and four days later I had my PTA
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Re: PTA Victoria - owners of 10+ firearms

Post by marksman » 08 Dec 2017, 3:56 pm

bladeracer wrote:
winton wrote:Did the DFO give you warning that he was visiting?

Did he ask you for a reason why you wanted a .223?

Is this just a check on your storage situation?

Are you in suburbia or Rural?

I can imagine rural getting more leniency.


Nope. Came out unannounced on August 8th, then rocked up again last Saturday unannounced - I don't think they bother making appointments these days :-)
He didn't actually know about the .223, or the Turk Mauser I bought a few weeks before that. He only had the two lever actions on his list over what I had last time he was here. I also have my brother's ACT-registered Anschutz here which he took details of.
He did ask me the same questions about storage that he asked last time - the questions get ticked off his form so I'd guess he always asks them.
Rural farm property fifteen minutes from town.
He said that rural owners will be seeing more strict security requirements very soon.


I'm not sure if they are told why you get flagged by the system,
although they should be making an appointment especially to rural as you may be working even at home
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Re: PTA Victoria - owners of 10+ firearms

Post by marksman » 08 Dec 2017, 4:58 pm

sungazer wrote:It could be avoided to some extent if you actually put in your own PTA's. some of you might but the gun store does it for me so I have no idea about what is put on the form or not. im sure if I do ever get knocked back I will of had to chase the gun store as to why there is a delay in getting the gun I can then imagine the answer O you got knocked back on the PTA. The I would have to go through the process. I can understand the lack of care if you are buying a gun from another store interstate or a second hand one online.


your right that we could avoid it by saying more than "to hunt pest animals and or sport target shooting" would stop the extra questions to be asked
really LRD are within the law asking for more details as when I received the answer back to my question regarding the 10 centerfire's which basically was that the chief commissioner has the right to ask for more detail
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Re: PTA Victoria - owners of 10+ firearms

Post by bladeracer » 08 Dec 2017, 5:00 pm

sungazer wrote:It could be avoided to some extent if you actually put in your own PTA's. some of you might but the gun store does it for me so I have no idea about what is put on the form or not. im sure if I do ever get knocked back I will of had to chase the gun store as to why there is a delay in getting the gun I can then imagine the answer O you got knocked back on the PTA. The I would have to go through the process. I can understand the lack of care if you are buying a gun from another store interstate or a second hand one online.


Yep, I've only ever seen one actual paper PtA, my dealer does them all online.
Because he hadn't had any PtA's back for two whole days he actually rang FRD and asked them what was up, mine and others came back cleared just a short while after he called.

Is there anything on the PtA that I should care about my dealer doing for me?
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Re: PTA Victoria - owners of 10+ firearms

Post by winton » 09 Dec 2017, 10:39 am

marksman wrote:really LRD are within the law asking for more details as when I received the answer back to my question regarding the 10 centerfire's which basically was that the chief commissioner has the right to ask for more detail


They are within their rights, but if their going to be approving every reason they get, then it becomes pointless. Its going to mean more work for them and the return isn't going to be what they hoped.
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Re: PTA Victoria - owners of 10+ firearms

Post by winton » 09 Dec 2017, 10:45 am

bladeracer wrote:
Is there anything on the PtA that I should care about my dealer doing for me?


I don't think the LGS can put a reason in their online pta submission. So there isn't anything you can do except wait for a yay or an nay.

I was told if you get an nay, you call LRD and then get an explanation why its a nay and what you can do about it. ie. put in a valid reason.
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Re: PTA Victoria - owners of 10+ firearms

Post by bladeracer » 09 Dec 2017, 10:49 am

I have a message to call my local about this "10+ centrefire" thing, if he knows something we don't already I'll post it.
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Re: PTA Victoria - owners of 10+ firearms

Post by winton » 09 Dec 2017, 11:00 am

A though just crossed my mind

This might be the political response to the Las Vegas shooting. The govt needed to be seen doing something extra about gun ownership, but I think they are getting some negative political pushback which might mean they tone this new regime down. There is already signs that this is the case with Bladracers PTA application.
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Re: PTA Victoria - owners of 10+ firearms

Post by bladeracer » 09 Dec 2017, 11:16 am

sungazer wrote:I think your correct wombat. I know some of the thinking behind it is to stop the possibility of a terrorist type getting hold of a lot of guns and then giving them to his buddies and causing a big incident. The licensing system works pretty well IMHO and stops these types from getting a license in the first place. If the DFO s did carry out arranged visits by appointment on a regular basis this would go a long way to determining the type of person holding the license and the reasons for it as well. Rather than more restrictions that are easily circumnavigated but impose an inconvenience to regular LAFO.


Terrorists with firearm licences?
What idiot with criminal intent is going to put themselves through the scrutiny of applying for a licence and buying registered firearms from gunshops? Or take the risks in trying to steal legally-owned firearms? If they know for sure somebody has firearms they want - like handguns or Cat C/D long guns - then they might take the risk of targeting them.
But it has to be far easier and safer to simply buy illegal firearms.

I don't really mind the DFO dropping in on spec for inspections as it ensures we stay on top of security ourselves. But the ramifications that can result from the most minor indiscretions are ludicrous. If they took a more reasonable view and worked to help us keep our firearms secure rather than hoping to catch us out it'd be a better service to the community at large.
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Re: PTA Victoria - owners of 10+ firearms

Post by bladeracer » 09 Dec 2017, 11:53 am

bladeracer wrote:I have a message to call my local about this "10+ centrefire" thing, if he knows something we don't already I'll post it.


I got hold of him and he just wanted to let me know that Firearm Traders Association are requesting shooters that have been targeted under this 10+ centrefire thing to let them know as they are fighting it.
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Re: PTA Victoria - owners of 10+ firearms

Post by marksman » 09 Dec 2017, 12:27 pm

winton wrote:
marksman wrote:really LRD are within the law asking for more details as when I received the answer back to my question regarding the 10 centerfire's which basically was that the chief commissioner has the right to ask for more detail


They are within their rights, but if their going to be approving every reason they get, then it becomes pointless. Its going to mean more work for them and the return isn't going to be what they hoped.


dead right there winton :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I did hear a rumour that it has something to do with gun control pushing for it but that is rumour :unknown:
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Re: PTA Victoria - owners of 10+ firearms

Post by winton » 09 Dec 2017, 1:42 pm

marksman wrote:
I did hear a rumour that it has something to do with gun control pushing for it but that is rumour :unknown:


Its political.

I wonder how long LRD with its limited resources are going to keep it up? There's gotta be a point where they say, hey, unless we get more resources, this manual reading of reasons and the judgements that occur, and the tooing and throwing with resubmissions and the odd appeal are alot of work.

Then there's the push back heat on the Police Minister who has to answer to all this.

If they keep it up, I'd be surprised.
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Re: PTA Victoria - owners of 10+ firearms

Post by Bent Arrow » 09 Dec 2017, 2:22 pm

winton wrote:
marksman wrote: There's gotta be a point where they say, hey, unless we get more resources, this manual reading of reasons and the judgements that occur, and the tooing and throwing with resubmissions and the odd appeal are alot of work....... .


I wouldn't count on it. In SA it's all manual, it's a paper system that goes from you to them, back to you and then back to them.............
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Re: PTA Victoria - owners of 10+ firearms

Post by Gun-nut » 11 Dec 2017, 8:58 pm

Bent Arrow wrote:
winton wrote:
marksman wrote: There's gotta be a point where they say, hey, unless we get more resources, this manual reading of reasons and the judgements that occur, and the tooing and throwing with resubmissions and the odd appeal are alot of work....... .


I wouldn't count on it. In SA it's all manual, it's a paper system that goes from you to them, back to you and then back to them.............


I always thought that's because there's no power in South Australia... :allegedly:
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Re: PTA Victoria - owners of 10+ firearms

Post by winton » 12 Dec 2017, 3:44 pm

Got my Latest PTA in 24 hours, no reason provided. Looks like they've cut down on the extra administration. I'll report back if I get a visit from the DFO. All my stuff is in ship shape, so I look forward to it.
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Re: PTA Victoria - owners of 10+ firearms

Post by Raptor209 » 18 Dec 2017, 1:08 am

bladeracer wrote:
bentaz wrote:I have plenty more than 10 guns and had a permit for another shotgun approved yesterday.


Shotguns are Cat A though?
You don't need any reason to purchase Cat A.


Adler A110 is now Cat B in WA and I assume also nation wide from the 1st November ?
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Re: PTA Victoria - owners of 10+ firearms

Post by Daddybang » 18 Dec 2017, 7:26 am

Raptor209 wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
bentaz wrote:I have plenty more than 10 guns and had a permit for another shotgun approved yesterday.


Shotguns are Cat A though?
You don't need any reason to purchase Cat A.


Adler A110 is now Cat B in WA and I assume also nation wide from the 1st November ?


Doesn't come in in qld until next year :drinks:
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