So why aren’t we talking about this?

[bladeracer]

Not even the slightest bit upset.
Not baiting or trolling, and if you think it’s that, you are mistaken.
Completely at a loss why bollocks that is nothing more than piss and vinegar gets so much attention and yet things that directly impact the sport get ignored. And while that keeps happening, the sport we enjoy is doomed to be regulated out of existence.

In that case I apologise unreservedly, I completely misread your intentions.
I agree with you completely. I haven't looked at the thread about the violent crime happening in Melbourne yet simply because I'm awash with it on Facebook all day long already.
I haven't seen the gang violence down my way yet, but I'm sure it's coming very soon.

[knowsnothin]

i have something to say about this.

Get well soon kid. hope you have a good recovery.

i hope the older boy is doing ok too.

[bigpete]

I wish I knew how to post the popcorn meme about now

FB_IMG_1514686740540.jpg (10.76 KiB) Viewed 4580 times

Closest I have

[juststarting]

[juststarting]

andreweden, I sense there's a lot of emotion and outrage. It's actually not a very healthy state to be in, as a firearms owner. I hope you are not cleaning any firearms and forget to lock them away in your emotional state (or when you've posted this). Thing about being emotional, outraged, angry is that when people are in this state, they get tunnel vision. You, right now, have tunnel vision.

That guy is what's called a statistical outlier. We have laws, we have requirements, we have enforcement. What else would you like to happen? Public flogging For example, if you read the latest, whatever it was, VIC firearms changes impact statement thing, you will notice that your anger is absolutely misdirected.

This is not a systemic issue - which is what you are trying to make it out to be. It's an outlier and accident. And by waving your flag around, sweeping all LAFOs under the same banner you are doing a lot of harm. Maybe that's your objective?

Yes, the person did bad. That person paid a very heavy price for his action and will continue to do so for the rest of his life (if you can call his emotional state a life after that), well beyond what our legal system can deliver in form of a punishment. That aside, he is an outlier. He doesn't count. A single instance. Maybe even a handful of instances. In a country of 24,000,000 double, triple, magnitude of 10 - still nothing! And we don't even have that, I can think of 4 in 2017 - and most of them were either illegal guns or genuine accidents, ricochet, etc.

So let me put this into perspective for you, I am going to go with 5 incidents. That's 0.02% per capita or - incidents at a rate of 0.0000002 per Australian population. You picking this up yet? We are not talking about it (see point a below), because it's completely irrelevant and our legal system has processes to deal with that.

Someone got injured, okay, that's bad, very bad, I am very empathetic and I really do feel for the family. It's horrible. However, lets put that into perspective, 0.02% per 100,000 people.

We are not talking about it, because:

(a) You're a spastic... You posted this at:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:46 pm;
while the story broke at: Jan 5, 2018 3:37PM.

Obviously you saw this, started menstruating and hoped to god you'd be the first one to post, with sensational title. That's cool, moving on...

(b) He is an outlier and only an absolute retard would use an outlier as bases for policy changes, which is what you are suggesting in a round about way. What would you like to happen, full gun ban? Followed by car ban and ultimately condom ban, because according to some - that's murder too, you know.

Get off your high-horse and let every one know how you reacted when you or a member of your family got a speeding ticket; or drove tired; or after drinking (because alcohol affects everyone differently), because, in 2016 there were 290 deaths on the roads.

[tom604]

well,, J S not to burst your bubble , but, 2015 1,209 road deaths or 5.08 per hundred thousand for Australia,,couldn't find 2016 and up,,and you cant really use the whole of Australia to use on gun accidents just the ones with guns,,so a quick search gave me figures for 2013/14 ,,now the numbers don't add up but that's statistics for you ,, 338 gun incidents ,or,, hospitalised 1.5 per 100,000 deaths 0.9 per 100,000,,of that 133 were accidents,111 were victim's of assault,116 were suicide,36 murders and 64 were reasons unknown? (adds up to 450ish,perhaps doubled up on some?) but yeah in the big picture ,,its nothing. that's why were not talking about it bored and while i agree with you, your numbers were fuzzy or at least fuzzier than mine ,,and andy, calm down, there's a lot of unregistered cars out there

[juststarting]

tom604, definitely burst, but I welcome facts. So, thanks.

Cars I took from ABS website, maybe I shouldn't do stats after midnight. It seems very high though. Anyway, firearms I went by what I've read. Which is interesting. I tend to keep myself up to date with this stuff, so I am actually amazed how much of this is not reported. And that brings us to my original statement that it's nothing - with your numbers, yep, still nothing.

Regarding whole of Australia vs gun owners only. I disagree. An incident can (and as break up of incidents shows) and often does involve multiple other non-gun-owner third-party, so I would still go with the population... also, why are we looking at accidents and hospitalisations? I am interested in unintentional deaths.

Looking at http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/australia - I have no mental capacity to work with numbers after midnight, as it has been shown, but skimming through actual deaths, it seems to me we are well below 0.9. In any case, 0.9, really... Not news.


As a side note, check out deaths from random falls. Stairs and gravity, the real killer.

[juststarting]

Nope, sorry, still on the ball.

Unintentional Gun Deaths
2015: 3 or 0.01

[JimTom]

This was a preventable tragic event. That poor family must be going through hell at the moment.
From a purely selfish point of view it infuriates me that one persons conduct reflects badly on us all. Yes the vast majority of owners are responsible and law abiding, however this event just gives those against firearm ownership more ammunition. Pun intended.

[marksman]

This was a preventable tragic event. That poor family must be going through hell at the moment.
From a purely selfish point of view it infuriates me that one persons conduct reflects badly on us all. Yes the vast majority of owners are responsible and law abiding, however this event just gives those against firearm ownership more ammunition. Pun intended.

+1 well said

[Oldbloke]

Just now had a look at this thread.

Well said JS and Tom. (not sure about item a though JS)

Yes this is more or less rare, not cause for alarm or a lot of emotions. Accident caused by carelessness. Edit; often an accident has several contributing causes that, are not initially apparent. What we don't know is if he was regularly careless.

Accidents happen all the time. But it doesn't automatically mean a jail term or require law changes.

Grandfather will never forgive himself. And parents may not either. I just hope the child comes out of it OK.

I think everyone should just cool down a bit. Often written messages do not convey all of the information.

[juststarting]

From a purely selfish point of view it infuriates me that one persons conduct reflects badly on us all.

It's not selfish, but it's not a healthy view either. Just like community leaders and politicians yell from roof tops that not all Muslims are terrorist after an act of terrorism by a Muslim. Or we instinctively know that 'a' drive has a DUI, but that person is an exception. Bill Cosby ones said that black American youth won't get respect, while they themselves still call eachother niggers. I hate that term by the way, but for purposes of this conversation it's a very applicable statement.

Stop giving one person's actions oxygen. As soon as we stop having that defensive mentality, shooters will gain ground. Yep, am individual messeged up, but he doesn't represent anyone. And there are tools for dealing with this. By being angry and outraged, you are shifting his position from nothing, to 'LAFO representative'. He's not!

This is something SSAA should really be doing, but you know...

[bigfellascott]

Very sad indeed.

[bigfellascott]

Nope, sorry, still on the ball.

Unintentional Gun Deaths
2015: 3 or 0.01

Check out deaths by “misadventure” in Hospitals - it’s a wonder they aren’t banned!

[JimTom]

From a purely selfish point of view it infuriates me that one persons conduct reflects badly on us all.

It's not selfish, but it's not a healthy view either. Just like community leaders and politicians yell from roof tops that not all Muslims are terrorist after an act of terrorism by a Muslim. Or we instinctively know that 'a' drive has a DUI, but that person is an exception. Bill Cosby ones said that black American youth won't get respect, while they themselves still call eachother niggers. I hate that term by the way, but for purposes of this conversation it's a very applicable statement.

Stop giving one person's actions oxygen. As soon as we stop having that defensive mentality, shooters will gain ground. Yep, am individual messeged up, but he doesn't represent anyone. And there are tools for dealing with this. By being angry and outraged, you are shifting his position from nothing, to 'LAFO representative'. He's not!

This is something SSAA should really be doing, but you know...

hear what you are saying juststarting, however, your above quote only seems to apply when the lefties defend the acts of terrorists, or any other action that suits their agenda.
Now that it’s a firearm owner that is responsible for a tragic incident, I’m certain they will exploit it to its full potential.
The left have blatant double standards in this regard when they apply it to anything that is in conservative Australians best interests.

[tom604]

Nope, sorry, still on the ball.

Unintentional Gun Deaths
2015: 3 or 0.01

cars cause much more carnage than guns, its just that people don't fear cars
or go ape sh*t when one isn't registered, i will hold judgement until more info is known about what happened not just what the "make news media" puts out
hope the kid makes a full recovery

[bigfellascott]

Nope, sorry, still on the ball.

Unintentional Gun Deaths
2015: 3 or 0.01

cars cause much more carnage than guns, its just that people don't fear cars
or go ape sh*t when one isn't registered, i will hold judgement until more info is known about what happened not just what the "make news media" puts out
hope the kid makes a full recovery

That's slowly changing with all these ****** running people over