So why aren’t we talking about this?

Questions about Queensland gun and ammunition laws. QLD Weapons Act 1990.

Re: So why aren’t we talking about this?

Post by bladeracer » 05 Jan 2018, 8:34 pm

andreweden wrote:I’m just sick of people making excuses for some violations and wanting the book thrown at others yet all along touting the poor LAFO get all this schtick from cops/politicians etc. If you want to tout this idea of a LAFO, it’s all or nothing, not just the laws you agree with. Even suggesting some old bloke with 100 firearms not stored correctly or not registered should get some leeway just because they are collectibles and he wasn’t hurting anyone is bulls**t.
When we claim in any way that it should be ok to bend the laws that already exist, it is in itself the reason that consideration isn’t given to changing the existing laws to make things easier for us. Particularly when it’s the simple stuff like registering and securely storing firearms we already have!


You won't hear me saying anything about this poor LAFO, there's not much law-abiding going on there.

I don't agree with registration at all so I don't believe anybody should be labeled a criminal for failing to register firearms that probably didn't require registration before and hopefully won't in the future if we can get rid of the registry.

I have no problem with any law-abiding person having as many firearms as they want. It's only people with criminal intent that need to be targeted for possessing firearms. Yes, he should be charged for failing to register his firearms, but there's no societal benefit to making a criminal out of him.
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Re: So why aren’t we talking about this?

Post by bladeracer » 05 Jan 2018, 8:36 pm

juststarting wrote:It's almost as if OP is fishing for a specific response about something.

What response are you looking for?


Now we know :-)
He didn't want to know why we weren't talking about it, he wanted to know why we weren't up in arms about the poor bastard being persecuted for simply neglecting to keep his firearms away from children, hopefully we've answered his question :-)
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Re: So why aren’t we talking about this?

Post by andreweden » 05 Jan 2018, 8:42 pm

bladeracer wrote:
juststarting wrote:It's almost as if OP is fishing for a specific response about something.

What response are you looking for?


Now we know :-)
He didn't want to know why we weren't talking about it, he wanted to know why we weren't up in arms about the poor bastard being persecuted for simply neglecting to keep his firearms away from children, hopefully we've answered his question :-)

You really don’t know s**t, but if you think you do, have fun with that.
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Re: So why aren’t we talking about this?

Post by bladeracer » 05 Jan 2018, 8:46 pm

andreweden wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
juststarting wrote:It's almost as if OP is fishing for a specific response about something.

What response are you looking for?


Now we know :-)
He didn't want to know why we weren't talking about it, he wanted to know why we weren't up in arms about the poor bastard being persecuted for simply neglecting to keep his firearms away from children, hopefully we've answered his question :-)

You really don’t know s**t, but if you think you do, have fun with that.


Lovely attitude you have...you confirmed exactly what I said so there's no call for getting upset about it. You posted it to troll a response that you didn't get. "I’m just sick of people making excuses for some violations and wanting the book thrown at others..."
Find me any firearm owner that doesn't believe this guy deserves everything they can throw at him.
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Re: So why aren’t we talking about this?

Post by hazza3006 » 05 Jan 2018, 8:54 pm

bladeracer wrote:Find me any firearm owner that doesn't believe this guy deserves everything they can throw at him.


yep and spot on, no one has defended the owners disgraceful negligence, but rather i believe we have all agreed its unacceptable and he ( the registered firearm owner ) needs to held accountable, plain and simple. Any decent LAFO, also advocates for sensible laws, such as storage laws, and rightly judges with prejudice individuals non-compliance.
Last edited by hazza3006 on 05 Jan 2018, 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: So why aren’t we talking about this?

Post by Daddybang » 05 Jan 2018, 8:56 pm

andreweden wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
juststarting wrote:It's almost as if OP is fishing for a specific response about something.

What response are you looking for?


Now we know :-)
He didn't want to know why we weren't talking about it, he wanted to know why we weren't up in arms about the poor bastard being persecuted for simply neglecting to keep his firearms away from children, hopefully we've answered his question :-)

You really don’t know s**t, but if you think you do, have fun with that.


I wish I knew how to post the popcorn meme about now :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: So why aren’t we talking about this?

Post by andreweden » 05 Jan 2018, 9:00 pm

The attitude is you thinking you have a clue about me. You think you have me summed up, that is your arrogance right there.

People on here have an opinion on African teens in Melbourne to muzzle brakes to whether or not a certain caliber is any good yet suddenly silent on something that will nearly certainly be used as more grist for the mill against some commonsense changes to the laws we currently have. Why?? Makes no sense to fob off the question.

Its so much easier to call me a troll than answer the question and throw in red herrings about other cases.
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Re: So why aren’t we talking about this?

Post by Daddybang » 05 Jan 2018, 9:08 pm

andreweden wrote:
People on here have an opinion on African teens in Melbourne to muzzle brakes to whether or not a certain caliber is any good yet suddenly silent on something that will nearly certainly be used as more grist for the mill against some commonsense changes to the laws we currently have. Why?? Makes no sense to fob off the question.

.


The subjects mentioned above are open to different opinions. The fact a firearm is left where a six year old can have access to it..
There's really no discussion to have. :drinks:
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Re: So why aren’t we talking about this?

Post by bladeracer » 05 Jan 2018, 9:11 pm

andreweden wrote:The attitude is you thinking you have a clue about me. You think you have me summed up, that is your arrogance right there.

People on here have an opinion on African teens in Melbourne to muzzle brakes to whether or not a certain caliber is any good yet suddenly silent on something that will nearly certainly be used as more grist for the mill against some commonsense changes to the laws we currently have. Why?? Makes no sense to fob off the question.

Its so much easier to call me a troll than answer the question and throw in red herrings about other cases.


My view of your opinion is based entirely on what you have posted yourself. If you think I have built a view that you had not intended then perhaps your post was poorly stated. Since he made zero effort to comply with the laws I don't see how the anti's can say the laws about security need tightening up, he would've ignored those with equal disdain. This guy is not a LAFO by anybody's definition.

I answered the question and even provided other examples of recent incidents. You're just upset that nobody took a bite of the bait you offered.
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Re: So why aren’t we talking about this?

Post by andreweden » 05 Jan 2018, 9:22 pm

Not even the slightest bit upset.
Not baiting or trolling, and if you think it’s that, you are mistaken.
Completely at a loss why bollocks that is nothing more than piss and vinegar gets so much attention and yet things that directly impact the sport get ignored. And while that keeps happening, the sport we enjoy is doomed to be regulated out of existence.
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Re: So why aren’t we talking about this?

Post by bladeracer » 05 Jan 2018, 9:23 pm

Daddybang wrote:The fact a firearm is left where a six year old can have access to it..
There's really no discussion to have. :drinks:


I wish I'd worded my original response this way :-)
That's exactly how I feel about it, nothing to discuss as it's entirely one-sided.
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Re: So why aren’t we talking about this?

Post by hazza3006 » 05 Jan 2018, 9:29 pm

andreweden wrote:Not even the slightest bit upset.
Completely at a loss why bollocks that is nothing more than piss and vinegar gets so much attention and yet things that directly impact the sport get ignored. And while that keeps happening, the sport we enjoy is doomed to be regulated out of existence.


as has been said, as the owner is clearly not a LAFO ( violated the all important storage laws ), nothing more to be said, other than we have no sympathy for him, and he deserves everything he gets from authorities.

Adding extra laws or regulations will do nothing to change these types of individuals ways, case in point the storage laws he already violated.
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Re: So why aren’t we talking about this?

Post by bladeracer » 05 Jan 2018, 9:44 pm

andreweden wrote:Not even the slightest bit upset.
Not baiting or trolling, and if you think it’s that, you are mistaken.
Completely at a loss why bollocks that is nothing more than piss and vinegar gets so much attention and yet things that directly impact the sport get ignored. And while that keeps happening, the sport we enjoy is doomed to be regulated out of existence.


In that case I apologise unreservedly, I completely misread your intentions.
I agree with you completely. I haven't looked at the thread about the violent crime happening in Melbourne yet simply because I'm awash with it on Facebook all day long already.
I haven't seen the gang violence down my way yet, but I'm sure it's coming very soon.
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Re: So why aren’t we talking about this?

Post by knowsnothin » 05 Jan 2018, 10:09 pm

i have something to say about this.

Get well soon kid. hope you have a good recovery.

i hope the older boy is doing ok too.
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Re: So why aren’t we talking about this?

Post by bigpete » 05 Jan 2018, 10:11 pm

Daddybang wrote:I wish I knew how to post the popcorn meme about now :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: So why aren’t we talking about this?

Post by juststarting » 05 Jan 2018, 10:53 pm

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Re: So why aren’t we talking about this?

Post by juststarting » 05 Jan 2018, 11:37 pm

andreweden, I sense there's a lot of emotion and outrage. It's actually not a very healthy state to be in, as a firearms owner. I hope you are not cleaning any firearms and forget to lock them away in your emotional state (or when you've posted this). Thing about being emotional, outraged, angry is that when people are in this state, they get tunnel vision. You, right now, have tunnel vision.

That guy is what's called a statistical outlier. We have laws, we have requirements, we have enforcement. What else would you like to happen? Public flogging For example, if you read the latest, whatever it was, VIC firearms changes impact statement thing, you will notice that your anger is absolutely misdirected.

This is not a systemic issue - which is what you are trying to make it out to be. It's an outlier and accident. And by waving your flag around, sweeping all LAFOs under the same banner you are doing a lot of harm. Maybe that's your objective?

Yes, the person did bad. That person paid a very heavy price for his action and will continue to do so for the rest of his life (if you can call his emotional state a life after that), well beyond what our legal system can deliver in form of a punishment. That aside, he is an outlier. He doesn't count. A single instance. Maybe even a handful of instances. In a country of 24,000,000 double, triple, magnitude of 10 - still nothing! And we don't even have that, I can think of 4 in 2017 - and most of them were either illegal guns or genuine accidents, ricochet, etc.

So let me put this into perspective for you, I am going to go with 5 incidents. That's 0.02% per capita or - incidents at a rate of 0.0000002 per Australian population. You picking this up yet? We are not talking about it (see point a below), because it's completely irrelevant and our legal system has processes to deal with that.

Someone got injured, okay, that's bad, very bad, I am very empathetic and I really do feel for the family. It's horrible. However, lets put that into perspective, 0.02% per 100,000 people.

We are not talking about it, because:

(a) You're a spastic... You posted this at:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:46 pm;
while the story broke at: Jan 5, 2018 3:37PM.

Obviously you saw this, started menstruating and hoped to god you'd be the first one to post, with sensational title. That's cool, moving on...

(b) He is an outlier and only an absolute retard would use an outlier as bases for policy changes, which is what you are suggesting in a round about way. What would you like to happen, full gun ban? Followed by car ban and ultimately condom ban, because according to some - that's murder too, you know.

Get off your high-horse and let every one know how you reacted when you or a member of your family got a speeding ticket; or drove tired; or after drinking (because alcohol affects everyone differently), because, in 2016 there were 290 deaths on the roads.
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Re: So why aren’t we talking about this?

Post by tom604 » 06 Jan 2018, 12:48 am

well,, J S not to burst your bubble :| , but, 2015 1,209 road deaths or 5.08 per hundred thousand for Australia,,couldn't find 2016 and up,,and you cant really use the whole of Australia to use on gun accidents :problem: just the ones with guns,,so a quick search gave me figures for 2013/14 :geek: ,,now the numbers don't add up but that's statistics for you ,, 338 gun incidents ,or,, hospitalised 1.5 per 100,000 deaths 0.9 per 100,000,,of that 133 were accidents,111 were victim's of assault,116 were suicide,36 murders and 64 were reasons unknown? (adds up to 450ish,perhaps doubled up on some?) but yeah in the big picture ,,its nothing. that's why were not talking about it :silent: :thumbsup: bored and while i agree with you, your numbers were fuzzy or at least fuzzier than mine :thumbsup: ,,and andy, calm down, there's a lot of unregistered cars out there :thumbsup:

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Re: So why aren’t we talking about this?

Post by juststarting » 06 Jan 2018, 1:27 am

tom604, definitely burst, but I welcome facts. So, thanks.

Cars I took from ABS website, maybe I shouldn't do stats after midnight. It seems very high though. Anyway, firearms I went by what I've read. Which is interesting. I tend to keep myself up to date with this stuff, so I am actually amazed how much of this is not reported. And that brings us to my original statement that it's nothing - with your numbers, yep, still nothing.

Regarding whole of Australia vs gun owners only. I disagree. An incident can (and as break up of incidents shows) and often does involve multiple other non-gun-owner third-party, so I would still go with the population... also, why are we looking at accidents and hospitalisations? I am interested in unintentional deaths.

Looking at http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/australia - I have no mental capacity to work with numbers after midnight, as it has been shown, but skimming through actual deaths, it seems to me we are well below 0.9. In any case, 0.9, really... Not news.


As a side note, check out deaths from random falls. Stairs and gravity, the real killer.
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Re: So why aren’t we talking about this?

Post by juststarting » 06 Jan 2018, 1:34 am

Nope, sorry, still on the ball.

Unintentional Gun Deaths
2015: 3 or 0.01


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Re: So why aren’t we talking about this?

Post by JimTom » 06 Jan 2018, 7:03 am

This was a preventable tragic event. That poor family must be going through hell at the moment.
From a purely selfish point of view it infuriates me that one persons conduct reflects badly on us all. Yes the vast majority of owners are responsible and law abiding, however this event just gives those against firearm ownership more ammunition. Pun intended.
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Re: So why aren’t we talking about this?

Post by marksman » 06 Jan 2018, 7:39 am

Scooter wrote:This was a preventable tragic event. That poor family must be going through hell at the moment.
From a purely selfish point of view it infuriates me that one persons conduct reflects badly on us all. Yes the vast majority of owners are responsible and law abiding, however this event just gives those against firearm ownership more ammunition. Pun intended.


+1 well said :thumbsup:
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Re: So why aren’t we talking about this?

Post by Oldbloke » 06 Jan 2018, 8:26 am

Just now had a look at this thread.

Well said JS and Tom. (not sure about item a though JS)

Yes this is more or less rare, not cause for alarm or a lot of emotions. Accident caused by carelessness. Edit; often an accident has several contributing causes that, are not initially apparent. What we don't know is if he was regularly careless.

Accidents happen all the time. But it doesn't automatically mean a jail term or require law changes.

Grandfather will never forgive himself. And parents may not either. I just hope the child comes out of it OK.

I think everyone should just cool down a bit. Often written messages do not convey all of the information.
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Re: So why aren’t we talking about this?

Post by juststarting » 06 Jan 2018, 9:35 am

Scooter wrote:From a purely selfish point of view it infuriates me that one persons conduct reflects badly on us all.


It's not selfish, but it's not a healthy view either. Just like community leaders and politicians yell from roof tops that not all Muslims are terrorist after an act of terrorism by a Muslim. Or we instinctively know that 'a' drive has a DUI, but that person is an exception. Bill Cosby ones said that black American youth won't get respect, while they themselves still call eachother niggers. I hate that term by the way, but for purposes of this conversation it's a very applicable statement.

Stop giving one person's actions oxygen. As soon as we stop having that defensive mentality, shooters will gain ground. Yep, am individual messeged up, but he doesn't represent anyone. And there are tools for dealing with this. By being angry and outraged, you are shifting his position from nothing, to 'LAFO representative'. He's not!

This is something SSAA should really be doing, but you know...
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Re: So why aren’t we talking about this?

Post by bigfellascott » 06 Jan 2018, 9:59 am

Very sad indeed.
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Re: So why aren’t we talking about this?

Post by bigfellascott » 06 Jan 2018, 10:15 am

juststarting wrote:Nope, sorry, still on the ball.

Unintentional Gun Deaths
2015: 3 or 0.01


Check out deaths by “misadventure” in Hospitals - it’s a wonder they aren’t banned!
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Re: So why aren’t we talking about this?

Post by JimTom » 06 Jan 2018, 11:34 am

juststarting wrote:
Scooter wrote:From a purely selfish point of view it infuriates me that one persons conduct reflects badly on us all.


It's not selfish, but it's not a healthy view either. Just like community leaders and politicians yell from roof tops that not all Muslims are terrorist after an act of terrorism by a Muslim. Or we instinctively know that 'a' drive has a DUI, but that person is an exception. Bill Cosby ones said that black American youth won't get respect, while they themselves still call eachother niggers. I hate that term by the way, but for purposes of this conversation it's a very applicable statement.

Stop giving one person's actions oxygen. As soon as we stop having that defensive mentality, shooters will gain ground. Yep, am individual messeged up, but he doesn't represent anyone. And there are tools for dealing with this. By being angry and outraged, you are shifting his position from nothing, to 'LAFO representative'. He's not!

This is something SSAA should really be doing, but you know...


hear what you are saying juststarting, however, your above quote only seems to apply when the lefties defend the acts of terrorists, or any other action that suits their agenda.
Now that it’s a firearm owner that is responsible for a tragic incident, I’m certain they will exploit it to its full potential.
The left have blatant double standards in this regard when they apply it to anything that is in conservative Australians best interests.
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Re: So why aren’t we talking about this?

Post by tom604 » 06 Jan 2018, 11:43 am

juststarting wrote:Nope, sorry, still on the ball.

Unintentional Gun Deaths
2015: 3 or 0.01


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:lol: :lol: :ugeek: cars cause much more carnage than guns, its just that people don't fear cars :thumbsdown:
or go ape sh*t when one isn't registered, i will hold judgement until more info is known about what happened not just what the "make news media" puts out
hope the kid makes a full recovery :thumbsup:
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Re: So why aren’t we talking about this?

Post by bigfellascott » 06 Jan 2018, 1:32 pm

tom604 wrote:
juststarting wrote:Nope, sorry, still on the ball.

Unintentional Gun Deaths
2015: 3 or 0.01


Image


:lol: :lol: :ugeek: cars cause much more carnage than guns, its just that people don't fear cars :thumbsdown:
or go ape sh*t when one isn't registered, i will hold judgement until more info is known about what happened not just what the "make news media" puts out
hope the kid makes a full recovery :thumbsup:


That's slowly changing with all these ****** running people over :D
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