Overnight stays with firearms.

Questions about South Australian gun and ammunition laws. S.A. Firearms Act 2015.

Re: Overnight stays with firearms.

Post by Wombat » 27 Jan 2018, 8:11 pm

bigfellascott wrote:
Wombat wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:
bigfellascott wrote:Ya never hear of the crims having storage issues and being busted for doing the wrong thing hey. Makes ya wonder if you don't say anything about how you are storing them when you are away from home how would they know if you're doing it legally or not? :unknown:


Yeah, unless you get pulled over and the cops search your car, or the motel room how would they know?

If your car was stolen or broken into or your Motel room gets broken into while you are having dinner etc and your Guns get stolen. :unknown:


Haven't heard of home delivery? great way to avoid having to leave valuables alone (if I'm traveling with em I don't leave em alone, usually there is someone who is there in the room with em) so no real theft issues there. Just comes down to common sense really, which sadly is rarer than rocking horse s**t these days! :unknown:

I'm just putting a scenario where the police would have to be notified of the storage, not questioning your common sense. In fact I have left firearms locked in a vehicle to eat a meal or when it was the best choice available overnight. :drinks:
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Re: Overnight stays with firearms.

Post by duncan61 » 27 Jan 2018, 8:29 pm

Reality check.You take it in the room on your first trip in and put it in its gunbag in the bed ,Then you get the rest of your baggage and you sleep with it.You are still in possesion.I pro roo shot in the gascoyne for more than 5 years and was often pulled up coming in to Carnarvon with my .222 on the dash with one up the spout and they can not seize the rifle .they have no right to touch it .Its like marked fishing gear like pots and nets only the licence holder can touch the gear.police have little to no idea of the firearms rules.I have told this tale before but I will do it again.My son and I took my youngest daughter and her friend to Coral bay as they were on holiday from England.We pulled up at the toilet block on Babbage Island in Carnarvon and they slept on the front seats my son was in the back of the ute and I swagged it 5 feet from the car.About 5.30 am lights painted over us then 2 rangers and a policeman appeared.I had my .222 full of crackers on its bipod next to me.The officer tried to make a big deal of it and asked why I had it but I had the paperwork for Warroora station to cull roos with me.Fair reason.When asked why it was loaded as I unloaded I responded that my daughter is here and I know this town well I am going to win the fight.The moral of the story if you are out bush its casual but I would not drive in the suburbs with a rifle on the dash.When we go to the farm down south we secure all the rifles minus bolts and ammo in a gun safe teck screwed to the trailer floor.One of us sits on it in turn when refuelling/getting food at Baldivis roadhouse.Bottom line if you are awake and holding it you are not doing anything wrong.Never give the police ammo or firearms to be helpfull I learned that lesson the hard way
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Re: Overnight stays with firearms.

Post by Daddybang » 28 Jan 2018, 4:39 am

So ya allowed to drive around in wa with a loaded firearm in the vehicle?? Sorry but that don't sound right :wtf: :unknown:
(My mum worked for hedland police for six years and my best mate is from boddington and they both reckon it's not right)
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Re: Overnight stays with firearms.

Post by tom604 » 28 Jan 2018, 9:19 am

for South Australia only.

Short-term, temporary storage of firearms and ammunition
When you are in possession of your firearm(s) and away from the place
where your firearm(s) are normally kept (e.g. away from home on a
hunting trip) you must secure your firearm(s) or ammunition by using the
best means reasonably available to you in the circumstances.
TRANSPORT OF FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION
When you are transporting a firearm(s) or ammunition in a vehicle, vessel
or aircraft:
• the firearm must be unloaded;
• all reasonable precautions must be taken to prevent the firearm
or ammunition from being lost, stolen or coming into the possession
of an unauthorised person;
• the firearm or ammunition must be securely locked in any available
boot, glove box, cupboard, compartment or container in which the
firearm or ammunition may be locked;
• where more than 1 such compartment or container, etc. is available
the firearm(s) and ammunition must be secured separately unless it
is not reasonably practicable in the circumstances, or to do so would
not be utilising the best security means available;
• if not in a locked compartment, etc. the firearm or ammunition must,
so far as reasonably practicable, be covered, concealed or otherwise
placed out of sight;
• unless not reasonably practicable or unlawful, firearms or ammunition
must not be transported in a container marked such that indicates it
contains a firearm or ammunition.
Your firearm must not be left in an unattended vehicle, vessel or aircraft
unless you have a reasonable excuse in the circumstances; and the
vehicle, etc. is securely locked; and not left unattended for longer than is
reasonably necessary in the circumstances.
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Re: Overnight stays with firearms.

Post by feedr » 28 Jan 2018, 5:26 pm

Mr.Seacucumber wrote:Read the legislation and just act on that. At least you have something to fall back onto in court.


Apparently not so much?

https://ssaa.org.au/news-resources/fire ... -firearms/

Western Australia

Apart from Schedule 4 of the Western Australian Firearms Regulations 1974, WA has no specific regulation regarding travelling with firearms. However, you can refer to the fact sheet ‘Firearm Storage Requirements’ via the WA firearms registry website, and the Firearms Act Section 24 does provide a lengthy explanation of police powers regarding inspection of licences, firearms and ammunition.

Section 23 of the Act describes offences regarding carriage and safe storage of firearms and also the requirement to allow police to inspect safe storage facilities. In short: A person who, being responsible for the storage of any firearm or ammunition, fails to provide and use adequate storage facilities to ensure its safety; or where prescribed requirements as to security are specified in relation to a firearm or ammunition of a prescribed kind, to ensure that those requirements are observed; or otherwise, to safeguard it from loss or improper use; or being responsible for the storage of any firearm or ammunition, refuses to permit a member of the police force to inspect the storage facilities provided, at a reasonable time after such an inspection is requested in writing by the member of the police force, commits an offence.


Hmmm :huh:
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Re: Overnight stays with firearms.

Post by feedr » 28 Jan 2018, 5:27 pm

Daddybang wrote:
duncan61 wrote:was often pulled up coming in to Carnarvon with my .222 on the dash with one up the spout

So ya allowed to drive around in wa with a loaded firearm in the vehicle?? Sorry but that don't sound right :wtf: :unknown:
(My mum worked for hedland police for six years and my best mate is from boddington and they both reckon it's not right)


Right or wrong that's just plain stupid.
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Re: Overnight stays with firearms.

Post by duncan61 » 28 Jan 2018, 6:43 pm

I feel the need to clarify.My roo ute was a Nissan patrol with racks and a rest on the door.Like about a dozen other vehicles in town I am obviously a roo shooter.there is an access road into south Carnarvon called Sydney memorial drive after the navy ship that was sunk of the coast at Quobba.The all night servo is on the corner of the northern hwy and the other road into town.The police stake out Sydney drive and pull people going north and south so I was stopped sometimes.The turnover of police in Carnarvon is rapid so as soon as you know a few new ones come.The box I delivered the roos to was on the north bank of the river and I could cull on the other side so I was passing through.If I needed fuel or food I would stop short of the servo and lock my rifle in the gun safe that was part of the support for the rack.Not long ago there was a topic started about what happens if you are cleaning your rifle and the police show up.The answer is its yours you are allowed to have it out the box for christs sake.I am not suggesting that its O.K. to strut around in public just drop the paranoia.If the police wished to disarm the public they would petition the Government and all private ownership would be outlawed.We have a perfectly good working system for firearm ownership,I am about to aquire a new calibre its not that hard
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Re: Overnight stays with firearms.

Post by Daddybang » 28 Jan 2018, 6:52 pm

duncan61 wrote:I .I am not suggesting that its O.K. to strut around in public just drop the paranoia.If the police wished to disarm the public they would petition the Government and all private ownership would be outlawed.We have a perfectly good working system for firearm ownership,I am about to aquire a new calibre its not that hard


Drop the paranoia????
Duncan you stated that ya were driving on a public road with ya rifle loaded on the dash.
It may be "yours" but only if ya follow the law. And what ya described in ya first post was clearly against the law.
Maybe ya should be more careful with the what ya post! :drinks:
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Re: Overnight stays with firearms.

Post by duncan61 » 28 Jan 2018, 7:35 pm

I will drop out of this topic as it is too hard to explain in this way.The point is it depends where you are I am sure in N.T. there are vehicles getting around with gunracks on the back window you just dont take your girlfriend to the movies in Darwin with your gear on the racks
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Re: Overnight stays with firearms.

Post by Daddybang » 28 Jan 2018, 8:00 pm

Nope no one is driving around on a public road with full gun racks in the NT. :lol: :drinks:
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Re: Overnight stays with firearms.

Post by Westaussieguy » 28 Jan 2018, 8:29 pm

'When travelling with firearms you should take precautions to minimise the
likelihood of unauthorised access or theft. Depending on the
circumstances it may be more secure to lock your firearms up within your
temporary accommodation (motel room, guestroom) rather than leaving
them locked in your car. Give careful thought to how you will secure your
firearm before leaving on your trip and take appropriate trigger locks,
chains or padlocks with you.
If travelling interstate it is important to remember that each State and
Territory has its own firearms legislation. It may be that the regulations
pertaining to transporting firearms and ammunition in your State or
Territory differ slightly to those in the State or Territory to which you are
travelling. It is important to contact the relevant Firearms Registry before
travelling interstate.'
This is direct from the Nation Firearms Safety code and that is used for the Firearms Awareness Certificate test that we give in W.A

Question 19. When travelling and carrying firearms and ammunition in a vehicle how should they be stored overnight?

The correct answer is D: In a secure container in your motel room or other accommodation also ensure the container is secured within the room.

I give this test and issue certificates almost everyday at work, so take from it what you will.
This certificate is used for the first application and issue of a firearms licence in WA and you need a 100% pass mark.
So I assume that if it is required for the test and pass it would be the requirements in the state. But that is logical and logic doesn't seem to have much to do with the application of the law in regards to firearms.
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Re: Overnight stays with firearms.

Post by holden4th » 28 Jan 2018, 8:39 pm

Duncan61, there is nothing to stop you storing your firearms safely before you reach town, the Roadhouse, whatever. You are plainly in breach of the law and what happens when one of those children who travels with you decides to get a bit adventurous with your easily available firearms. "...was often pulled up coming in to Carnarvon with my .222 on the dash with one up the spout". I've got a mate who lived and shot in Carnarvon and he described shooters like you as irresponsible d**kheads. So please, withdraw from this conversation.
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Re: Overnight stays with firearms.

Post by Wombat » 28 Jan 2018, 9:18 pm

Daddybang wrote:Nope no one is driving around on a public road with full gun racks in the NT. :lol: :drinks:
I remember pre 96 seeing lots of full racks in the back window of Utes in both SA and NT, also Cockies wandering around town with holstered revolvers in the NT. None of that now though.
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Re: Overnight stays with firearms.

Post by Daddybang » 28 Jan 2018, 9:52 pm

Wombat wrote:
Daddybang wrote:Nope no one is driving around on a public road with full gun racks in the NT. :lol: :drinks:
I remember pre 96 seeing lots of full racks in the back window of Utes in both SA and NT, also Cockies wandering around town with holstered revolvers in the NT. None of that now though.


Exactly right wombat pre 96 was a hell of a lot different. :drinks:
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Re: Overnight stays with firearms.

Post by Stix » 28 Jan 2018, 10:04 pm

Duncan did say he used to do it, & that he wouldnt do it now...well thats how i read it anyway...telling him to leave is a bit harsh in my opinion...
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Re: Overnight stays with firearms.

Post by duncan61 » 29 Jan 2018, 12:34 am

Where did the children come from.I am talking about between 2.00 to 4.00 am on my way to the coolroom to unload 2 nights of shooting Kangaroos at Wooramool.The origional topic is what to do when travelling and I am letting the O.P. know that if you are in possesion its O.K.The rifle lives on the dash till you are ready to take a shot then it gets swung out the window you close the bolt then drop the roo all in one smooth operation.I am not talking about driving along a busy hwy to go hunting somewhere.I had property I could cull on on the other side of Carnarvon so if I was not stopping I would carry on through and top up my numbers.The main hwy is 15 k from the town centre but bored night shift police would sometimes go get coffee at the roadhouse and stake out the Sydney drive so I would bump them sometimes get bagged and have a chat.If I had a heap of proccessed roos on the racks they were more interested in the industry than the fact I had a rifle on the dash.I live in the perth suburbs now and my rifles are in a buffalo river gun safe bolted correctly and only I have access to the keys.If I wish to take them across town to the workshop to make ammunition or do work I transport them in a custom lockable firearm style suitcase and in my long toolbox that is also locked.Its an internet forum to share ideas and experiences not to judge people based on a few comments
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Re: Overnight stays with firearms.

Post by Daddybang » 29 Jan 2018, 7:57 am

Stix wrote:Duncan did say he used to do it, & that he wouldnt do it now...well thats how i read it anyway...telling him to leave is a bit harsh in my opinion...


The problem is this is not the first time hes put up advice thats at best irresponsible and at worst totally illegal. :drinks:

Ps I agree no one has the right to tell someone to leave a thread/conversation. That's entirely up to the mods. :drinks:
Last edited by Daddybang on 29 Jan 2018, 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Overnight stays with firearms.

Post by bigfellascott » 29 Jan 2018, 9:01 am

duncan61 wrote:Where did the children come from.I am talking about between 2.00 to 4.00 am on my way to the coolroom to unload 2 nights of shooting Kangaroos at Wooramool.The origional topic is what to do when travelling and I am letting the O.P. know that if you are in possesion its O.K.The rifle lives on the dash till you are ready to take a shot then it gets swung out the window you close the bolt then drop the roo all in one smooth operation.I am not talking about driving along a busy hwy to go hunting somewhere.I had property I could cull on on the other side of Carnarvon so if I was not stopping I would carry on through and top up my numbers.The main hwy is 15 k from the town centre but bored night shift police would sometimes go get coffee at the roadhouse and stake out the Sydney drive so I would bump them sometimes get bagged and have a chat.If I had a heap of proccessed roos on the racks they were more interested in the industry than the fact I had a rifle on the dash.I live in the perth suburbs now and my rifles are in a buffalo river gun safe bolted correctly and only I have access to the keys.If I wish to take them across town to the workshop to make ammunition or do work I transport them in a custom lockable firearm style suitcase and in my long toolbox that is also locked.Its an internet forum to share ideas and experiences not to judge people based on a few comments


I understand where your coming from Duncs, city slickers don't understand how it works in the bush for the most part, I don't think many on here have much to do with shooting in the bush, more range operators for the most part. :thumbsup:
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Re: Overnight stays with firearms.

Post by tom604 » 29 Jan 2018, 10:12 am

now he's saying that he hates children !! won't anyone think of the children :lol: in time's long gone and not so long gone you could do a lot of things that you cant do now, the key word used was "used" as in used to-past tense. he also said that the cops didn't ping him for it,kinda says that it was no big deal (for the time),telling someone to remove themselves from the conversation when they haven't been abusive is rude. ,as is saying that "someone" described someone as a d##khead, if your going to say it ,man up and say it and if you don't think that it was rude just change two words and replace them with "your mother",see? its now rude :problem: i like this forum because its nice and polite, lets all be grown ups and try and keep it that way :thumbsup: sermon finished :violin:
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Re: Overnight stays with firearms.

Post by Wobble » 29 Jan 2018, 1:18 pm

I can hopefully add some clarity to this as I'm pretty familiar with the WA Firearms Act.

Unfortunately the WA act is vague if not totally devoid of information on temporary storage (e.g. while travelling) and especially on the transportation of firearms themselves.

Duncan is in fact correct (as well as the information that Feedr posted from the SSAA) in the sense that there are no specific regulations or prohibitions on traveling with a firearms, or the transportation of one. Literally, the words travel, transport, carriage etc. do not appear in the act.

There is nothing along the lines of "while transporting firearms they must be x, y or z." Likewise there is nothing specific about managing firearms while staying in temporary accommodation such as a motel, or camping, where no fixed storage facility is available.

What is in the Act, is a number of broader regulations which may be applied in different scenarios. The WA Act is quite reliant on interpretations of these regulations in a given situation rather than specifics.

Duncan has decided to drop out of the conversation so I won't go on about that, just to say though it would seem his interpretations of the Act vary from the popular consensus.

Here is a link to the full act: https://www.slp.wa.gov.au/pco/prod/file ... penElement but I'll post a few excerpts from related to the above.

s.23 9

"take all reasonable precautions to ensure its safe keeping"

"take all reasonable precautions to prevent the same, permits a young person under the age of 18 years to have unlawful possession of a firearm"

s. 24 2

A member of the Police Force may seize and take possession of any firearm or ammunition that is in the possession of a person, whether or not the person is licensed or otherwise authorised to possess it if, in the opinion of the member of the Police Force — (a) possession of it by that person may result in harm being suffered by any person; or


As annoying as the vagary can often be, the fact of the matter is the law isn't absolute, it is open to interpretation. The best you can do is exercise common sense and take all reasonable steps you're able to.

When travelling I'd ask myself the following (and these are my answers).

Is it reasonable to leave a firearm in a locked car while you're asleep in the motel? In my opinion no.

Is taking it into the motel room with you while you sleep in the same room taking all reasonable precautions you can? I would say yes.

Is it reasonable to leave a firearm in a locked car in the bush while you camp next to it? I'd say yes. Same goes for sleeping with it in your tent or swag.

Is sleeping with a loaded firearm taking all reasonable precautions? Could it result in harm being suffered by any person? I think most people would say this is not good practice at least.

I would say the same as above for driving with a loaded firearm in a vehicle.

"Reasonable" is the key word here.

As a hypothetical, lets say you're travelling with a rifle, you have a bolt lock through it, the bolt is removed, and ammunition is stored separately in a locked container. You check into a motel and keep the firearm and ammunition in the room with you at all times. What more could the Police reasonably expect you to do? Carry a safe with you and install and remove it everywhere you stop? Of course not.

As I said above, the best you can do is exercise common sense and take all reasonable steps you're able to. Don't half ass safe guarding your gear and don't be lazy with unloading and securing ammunition. If it takes a few extra minutes to separate it, lock it, or take it somewhere with you, do it. With that mentality you should be fine.
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Re: Overnight stays with firearms.

Post by Oldbloke » 29 Jan 2018, 2:01 pm

"As a hypothetical, lets say you're travelling with a rifle, you have a bolt lock through it, the bolt is removed, and ammunition is stored separately in a locked container. You check into a motel and keep the firearm and ammunition in the room with you at all times. What more could the Police reasonably expect you to do? Carry a safe with you and install and remove it everywhere you stop? Of course not."

You then go to the motel resurant and have a meal. In the meantime one of the many staff that have a key to your room steals the rifle.

Judge says "but didn't you realise lots of staff have keys? Cleaners, manager, maintenance guy perhaps past tenants. If you locked it in your car only you would have had a key and it would be in your pocket. Your model of car even has an alarm and if the rifle was covered or in the boot it would be out of sight. That would be more reasonable. :lol:

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Re: Overnight stays with firearms.

Post by Wobble » 29 Jan 2018, 3:09 pm

So order room service.

Park the car in a position where you can see it from the motel restaurant and lock the firearm in the boot.

You can't win if you only look for problems, mate. Look for solutions ;)
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Re: Overnight stays with firearms.

Post by Stix » 29 Jan 2018, 11:26 pm

Daddybang wrote:
Stix wrote:Duncan did say he used to do it, & that he wouldnt do it now...well thats how i read it anyway...telling him to leave is a bit harsh in my opinion...


The problem is this is not the first time hes put up advice thats at best irresponsible and at worst totally illegal. :drinks:

Ps I agree no one has the right to tell someone to leave a thread/conversation. That's entirely up to the mods. :drinks:


Fair enough Daddybang...i wasnt trying to take sides mate...just try to be the "passive mediator" if you will...hoping people not go too far either way in their comments...

I understand & can see both sides, & also understand its often hard to articulate what you mean when typing it...& so i felt he was misunderstood--although he probably didnt do himself justice in his follow up...although again that would be hard to articulate.

As was mentioned by another, some of us 'older school' blokes who have spent considerable time out bush should be able to understand what he meant...

As for bad advice--i dont read what he said as meaning you can drive town streets with a loaded c/f rifle on the dash & tell coppers to go jump...

No sides taken here mate...im sure underneath our ego's we are all here for the same right reasons... :drinks: :friends: :drinks:
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Re: Overnight stays with firearms.

Post by Daddybang » 30 Jan 2018, 5:30 am

Hey stix no worries. Just to clear the air I know he didn't mean he was driving thru town but any road with an rbt on it is a "public road" . Anyway it's all good mate. :lol: :drinks:
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Re: Overnight stays with firearms.

Post by Baitlayer » 01 Feb 2018, 4:31 pm

G'day to all.Well I may not have got a definitive answer to my post( Realistically I didn't expect one),one thing that is abundantly clear is the frustration that arises from the confusion and lack of clarity in the present laws.They are so open to interpretation and dependent on which source your info comes ,that it is not surprising it causes anger and frustation.I have recently had the same conversation with long serving police officer here in WA and he told me they are equally frustrated and confused by the situation.Surely it is time for the various representative bodies(SSAA, NRAA etc)to forget the infighting and work toward uniform and clear firearms laws,preferably national .and not state based.I realise this is pie in the sky thinking but we can only hope.
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Re: Overnight stays with firearms.

Post by Oldbloke » 01 Feb 2018, 7:18 pm

Baitlayer wrote:.Surely it is time for the various representative bodies(SSAA, NRAA etc)to forget the infighting and work toward uniform and clear firearms laws,preferably national .and not state based.I realise this is pie in the sky thinking but we can only hope.


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Re: Overnight stays with firearms.

Post by AusTac » 01 Feb 2018, 7:36 pm

Did oldbloke learn how to post meme's :lol:
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Re: Overnight stays with firearms.

Post by Oldbloke » 01 Feb 2018, 8:24 pm

AusTac wrote:Did oldbloke learn how to post meme's :lol:


Now listen here young fella, I'm far more computer savi than you might think. I just decided the forum needed a bit of humour.

I've been doctoring pics for years. And if you think your wiser than me,

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Re: Overnight stays with firearms.

Post by Archie » 02 Feb 2018, 1:10 pm

Baitlayer wrote:G'day to all.Well I may not have got a definitive answer to my post( Realistically I didn't expect one),one thing that is abundantly clear is the frustration that arises from the confusion and lack of clarity in the present laws.They are so open to interpretation and dependent on which source your info comes ,that it is not surprising it causes anger and frustation.I have recently had the same conversation with long serving police officer here in WA and he told me they are equally frustrated and confused by the situation.Surely it is time for the various representative bodies(SSAA, NRAA etc)to forget the infighting and work toward uniform and clear firearms laws,preferably national .and not state based.I realise this is pie in the sky thinking but we can only hope.


For what its worth, when the SSAA asked for input into the review of regulations for NSW last year, I wrote to them asking for exactly that - and for whatever reason, it unfortunately didn't make it into the submission they eventually sent to the government, although a lot of other sensible suggestions on other issues were proposed so I can't complain too much.

Realistically, the representative bodies won't push the government unless the members tell them they want something. People whinge about the SSAA (a lot of time for good reason) but if you want them to lobby for changes in the law you can't just pay your dues and forget about it, email them and tell them what you want them to push for.

As a side note baitlayer, it basically has to be a state based law unfortunately because of who has what powers under the constitution. The national firearms agreement after Port Arthur was really the national government getting all the states to individually agree to all put in basically the same set of laws - and then they changed a bit over time. The national government doesn't really have much power in this area. That's the reason why they couldn't actually ban the Adler, but they were able to threaten to ban any more importation of them.
Archie
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