Am I missing something?

Questions about Queensland gun and ammunition laws. QLD Weapons Act 1990.

Re: Am I missing something?

Post by Gwion » 02 Mar 2018, 11:15 am

trekin wrote:So what you are saying, is that because I've worked as an assistant shotfirer in the distant past, and the knowledge gained from attending school back in the day when real chemistry was taught, that you would consider me to be terrorist just waiting to blow people up. This I expect from the antis, the Govt, and the police, but I must say to hear it from someone within our own ranks rates pretty low on my list.
The laws, as they stand, only effect, and are only abided by, those who choose to not break them.


That is a crazy and pointless analogy. Having an industrial skill or knowledge is in no way analogous to wilfully breaking the law (having un-registered firearms).
OK, so you don't break the law but if it is easy for you to get a semi-auto with out a catC or carD, then you know people who do.

Do tell us: hypothetically: these people who are so numerous with semi-autos to sell to any and all takers; would they sell me one if I just walked up and asked them in the pub? Would they sell one to someone they thought was potentially another Martin Bryant?

I think you know the answers to both those questions is no.
So, it's not as easy as some of you like to make out to procure illegal weapons. You have to spend time gaining the trust of the crim who sells them and risk the repercussions if you screw up and bring attention to them.

Like it or not; it is the law and if you or your friends decide to ignore it you are in breach of the law and guilty of an offence. If you were truly "law abiding" you would hand the guns in or sell them in an amnesty.
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Re: Am I missing something?

Post by trekin » 02 Mar 2018, 12:52 pm

Gwion wrote:
trekin wrote:So what you are saying, is that because I've worked as an assistant shotfirer in the distant past, and the knowledge gained from attending school back in the day when real chemistry was taught, that you would consider me to be terrorist just waiting to blow people up. This I expect from the antis, the Govt, and the police, but I must say to hear it from someone within our own ranks rates pretty low on my list.
The laws, as they stand, only effect, and are only abided by, those who choose to not break them.


That is a crazy and pointless analogy. Having an industrial skill or knowledge is in no way analogous to wilfully breaking the law (having un-registered firearms).
OK, so you don't break the law but if it is easy for you to get a semi-auto with out a catC or carD, then you know people who do.

Do tell us: hypothetically: these people who are so numerous with semi-autos to sell to any and all takers; would they sell me one if I just walked up and asked them in the pub? Would they sell one to someone they thought was potentially another Martin Bryant?

I think you know the answers to both those questions is no.
So, it's not as easy as some of you like to make out to procure illegal weapons. You have to spend time gaining the trust of the crim who sells them and risk the repercussions if you screw up and bring attention to them.

Like it or not; it is the law and if you or your friends decide to ignore it you are in breach of the law and guilty of an offence. If you were truly "law abiding" you would hand the guns in or sell them in an amnesty.

Four simple words that seperate every single law abiding person from criminals, "I choose not to". Yes, the above analogy is crazy and pointless, but no more crazy and pointless than your assertion that if someone may, or may not, know certain things but chooses not to break the law by acting on that knowledge, then they are criminals themselves. Do you ring the police everytime you see someone run a red light or fail to indicate etc? Do I now have to wait for the police to raid me because you now believe that I may be criminal just because I choose not break the law by acting on knowledge I may/may not have?
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Re: Am I missing something?

Post by Gwion » 02 Mar 2018, 8:59 pm

I never said you were a criminal. I said that if it was easy for you to acquire illegal firarms then you are skating on the edge of the law.

I personally believe that anyone who claims it is easy for the average joe (let a lone an average nuttervready to snap and let loose in public) to acquire illicit semi auto firearms is completely full of unsubstantiated hyperbole.
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Re: Am I missing something?

Post by Bigjobss » 02 Mar 2018, 9:52 pm

The most effective part of our gun laws is that to the average person they seem difficult and prohibitive, even though IMO they are really not that bad.
I have spoken to many people that have no idea about our guns laws, we all have, the perception that it is extremely hard to legally get a gun in Australia keeps the average shotkicker away, this is a good thing.
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Re: Am I missing something?

Post by southeast varmiter » 03 Mar 2018, 6:15 am

Prevent child deaths? What a croc, guns have virtually no statistical presence in child deaths, ever. Try abortion. Adverse drug reactions and maternal homocide rate up there.

Second for the cucks here, with more than 300,000 untraceable semis and pistols out there why is there no massacres every week. :unknown:
Here’s the cliff notes for you - guns are not a problem.
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Re: Am I missing something?

Post by Bigjobss » 03 Mar 2018, 7:03 am

southeast varmiter wrote:Prevent child deaths? What a croc, guns have virtually no statistical presence in child deaths, ever. Try abortion. Adverse drug reactions and maternal homocide rate up there.

Second for the cucks here, with more than 300,000 untraceable semis and pistols out there why is there no massacres every week. :unknown:
Here’s the cliff notes for you - guns are not a problem.


Exactly.
Australia only has about 250 homicides a year in total, 32% by knives, 24% by beatings and 13% by guns, so about 35 people are murdered by a gun per year, I wonder how many of those are actually legal firearms? You are almost as likely to be intentonally poisoned and killed than shot to death.

Then you can look at suicide stats, car accidents, preventable diseases such as diet and lifetstyle related heart diseases and cancers and you see tens of THOUSANDS preventable deaths a year, but NOOOOOOOO we must ban the bad guns. :allegedly:
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Re: Am I missing something?

Post by marksman » 03 Mar 2018, 12:34 pm

southeast varmiter wrote:Prevent child deaths? What a croc, guns have virtually no statistical presence in child deaths, ever. Try abortion. Adverse drug reactions and maternal homocide rate up there.

Second for the cucks here, with more than 300,000 untraceable semis and pistols out there why is there no massacres every week. :unknown:
Here’s the cliff notes for you - guns are not a problem.


well said :thumbsup:
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Re: Am I missing something?

Post by Norton » 03 Mar 2018, 2:45 pm

allthegearandnoidea wrote:If I need to bust a mob of pigs Ill buy a lever action.


Not the same thing by a long shot for a professional volume culler.
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Re: Am I missing something?

Post by allthegearandnoidea » 03 Mar 2018, 2:51 pm

By a long shot haha I see what you did there
BUT seriously, when you start talking professional shooter they have legal access to semis anyway dont they?
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Re: Am I missing something?

Post by bladeracer » 03 Mar 2018, 3:30 pm

Gwion wrote:I never said you were a criminal. I said that if it was easy for you to acquire illegal firarms then you are skating on the edge of the law.

I personally believe that anyone who claims it is easy for the average joe (let a lone an average nuttervready to snap and let loose in public) to acquire illicit semi auto firearms is completely full of unsubstantiated hyperbole.



Personally, I couldn't care less if the average joe wants an illegal firearm if he's got no criminal intent for it. Virtually all of our illegal guns are only illegal now, because a law was made that made them illegal if you didn't register them. I don't care if there are ten-million "illegal" guns out there if they're not causing anybody any harm. It's a waste of Police resources pursuing these guns. They need to focus on taking guns off violent criminals, or even better, just focus on taking all violent criminals off our streets.

People that are likely to commit murder are already involved in those tiers of society where illegal guns are readily available. The average joe that merely wants a gun "just because" he wants a gun might have more trouble finding an illegal gun, but as he's not intending to do anything criminal with it anyway how exactly does that make our society any safer?
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Re: Am I missing something?

Post by bladeracer » 03 Mar 2018, 3:37 pm

sungazer wrote:Intruder kicks you door in at 2 am, first you have to wake up and become thinking and process what may be going on. Intruder is probably now at the foot of your bed. You still have to get out of bed, find the key to the safe, get to the safe and open it.
Then with the rules that many would like to see gone the ammo stored in a different room in another locked container, magazines stored empty somewhere else. Absolutely no time to do all this and confront an intruder on equal terms.


In my instance I wasn't aware of any trouble until the guy jumped on my chest with a knife (bad people are fully aware they don't need guns to kill people) to my throat. A gun even loaded under my pillow probably wouldn't have helped me, but I still think it should be my choice to have one if I feel that is an option that might save my life or those around me.
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Re: Am I missing something?

Post by Bruiser64 » 03 Mar 2018, 4:25 pm

This is an interesting question: Are our gun laws really that bad? As we can see by the responses it all depends on your perspective and value set. Personally, as a law abiding individual I at times find them a bit of a pain. The application process and the time it takes to get your new firearm is irritating when I know I have only a law abiding intention.

However, For my work I have a lot of contact with criminals. Knowing what I know about them, I am extraordinarily pleased that our firearms laws prevent quick access to them for the crims. Most criminals in WA don’t use firearms in their crimes as they are hard to obtain and very expensive on the black market. In my experience most crims are impulsive and opportunistic in their criminal behaviour. Most of them dont have the financial means to obtain a black market firearm. Unlike the USA firearrms are not ubiquitous in the community. Their relative scarcity overall reduces their availability to crims. Those that are in existence are expensive and difficult to obtain. Unless the crim themselves has stolen a firearm from a legal owner, they, in my observation of them, are not likely to have one.

The Gun buyback removed a bit over 600,000 firearms from the Australian community. This fact alone reduced firearms availability to crims. I personally am still annoyed about the buyback as I lost my semi auto shottie. So having said that our firearms laws are irritating if you know you are law abiding. They have however significantly reduced the pool of firearms available to your common or garden numpty violent crim. Who, by the way, is what most of them are based on my observation of them in their natural habitat ( prison).

So on balance, whilst I personally find the laws inconvenient, they have not prevented me from legally pursuing my shooting and hunting hobby. I am willing to accept that inconvenience as I am confident that it reduces the lethality of the violent behaviour of the crims I deal with.
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Re: Am I missing something?

Post by Gaznazdiak » 03 Mar 2018, 4:44 pm

Laws that have a logical reason, for safety and security I have no trouble with, licencing, storage, registration and transporting.
The ones that are just illogical knee-jerkery sh!t me to tears.
In NSW, you have to have a permit, as for a firearm, to own a totally inert replica. You have to supply a genuine reason, as for a firearm. You have to store it the same way as the category of firearm it replicates, all for a harmless, realistic looking TOY.
We all know the unbridled f*ckery surrounding the acquisition and storage of the inert metal tubes known as suppressors.
The fact, mentioned previously in this thread, that there is a category difference for repeating and self-loading firearms.
The replica nonsense also applies to knives, something of which I am also fond.
I am allowed, for example to import through the post a Cold Steel Magnum Tanto, with a 12 inch blade of surgically sharp San Mai steel, an item that to quote Squint Eastwood, "will take your head clean off". I pay the manufacturer in the USA and 10 days later the posty delivers it.
Several years ago I purchased two replica knives from Cold Steel, made from Grivory glass reinforced plastic. These are used for training purposes and can cut cheese but little else.
Instead of my knives turning up, I received a letter from customs telling me they had been confiscated as a prohibited item, as non-metallic knives were illegal to import.
To get them released to me I had to apply to the Police Minister, giving a detailed description, including picture and measurements, detail why I wanted them and how they would be stored.
When I eventually received a permission letter from this minister, I had to include that with another application form, detailing everything as before to the Customs Minister and wait several more weeks before being granted his permission. I then had to include both permissions with a third application to Customs themselves to finally get my two plastic knives.
6 months and many dollars worth of postage later they finally arrived, accompanied by a letter threatening me with jail and 6 figure fines if I was to attempt to do this again without prior permission.
We have self-serving chair polishers making up these bullsh!t regulations for no better reason than to try to justify their place at the trough.
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Re: Am I missing something?

Post by bladeracer » 03 Mar 2018, 5:51 pm

Bruiser64 wrote:Most criminals in WA don’t use firearms in their crimes as they are hard to obtain and very expensive on the black market. In my experience most crims are impulsive and opportunistic in their criminal behaviour. Most of them dont have the financial means to obtain a black market firearm.


Are you sure they simply aren't interested in using firearms for criminal activities rather than it being a price issue?
I believe our entire mentality simply doesn't make Aussies even think about using guns in that way, although recent importing of non-Aussies is certainly changing that.
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Re: Am I missing something?

Post by Bruiser64 » 03 Mar 2018, 6:21 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Bruiser64 wrote:Most criminals in WA don’t use firearms in their crimes as they are hard to obtain and very expensive on the black market. In my experience most crims are impulsive and opportunistic in their criminal behaviour. Most of them dont have the financial means to obtain a black market firearm.


Are you sure they simply aren't interested in using firearms for criminal activities rather than it being a price issue?
I believe our entire mentality simply doesn't make Aussies even think about using guns in that way, although recent importing of non-Aussies is certainly changing that.


Based on my observations of them, they use whatever weapon that comes easily to hand. In the US firearms are readily available. Here in Australia they are not. The crims here use knives, screw drivers, star pickets lumps of wood etc. with all these implements the crim has to close with their intended victim. Which is why, when you look at the details of their offending, the victim is nearly always smaller and less powerful. Surprisingly, a lot of the crims I see are not big men. My observation is that although they can be exceedingly violent, they arent courageous. They like the odds firmly stacked in their favour. It is incredible how sooky they are in a custodial environment. They dont mind perpetrating an assault, but lordy me they hate being the victim of one.

The issue with firearms is that they allow a smaller, violently inclined cowardly crim to inflict lethal injury on their victim with minimal physical risk to themselves. Hence my enthusiasm for keeping firearms as hard to get for them as possible.
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Re: Am I missing something?

Post by marksman » 03 Mar 2018, 8:47 pm

I agree with you in that I have an enthusiasm for keeping firearms as hard to get for the crims
but how does that happen to stop them with the gun laws we have ? really
and I do agree to locking up your firearms and ammo
2 weeks or so ago thieve's stole a cache of firearms in a country Victorian farm by using the farmers tractor to pull the safe and the wall out
its common knowledge that the crims are using 4x4's and snatch straps to get the safes out as well
or the thieve's knock on your door bash you and your wife and you give them what they want
the law makes it harder for the crims but does not stop them
lets hope some of the suggestions from clubs doing the traps a while ago never see light eg: having to store your firearms at an armoury for a price, of coarse
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Re: Am I missing something?

Post by Bruiser64 » 03 Mar 2018, 9:07 pm

marksman wrote:I agree with you in that I have an enthusiasm for keeping firearms as hard to get for the crims
but how does that happen to stop them with the gun laws we have ? really
and I do agree to locking up your firearms and ammo
2 weeks or so ago thieve's stole a cache of firearms in a country Victorian farm by using the farmers tractor to pull the safe and the wall out
its common knowledge that the crims are using 4x4's and snatch straps to get the safes out as well
or the thieve's knock on your door bash you and your wife and you give them what they want
the law makes it harder for the crims but does not stop them
lets hope some of the suggestions from clubs doing the traps a while ago never see light eg: having to store your firearms at an armoury for a price, of coarse


The crims engaging in the behaviour described are clearly motivated and organised. In a perverse way it shows that the steps taken to limit firearms availability have succeeded. By this I mean that these motivated crims have to put in a significant effort to get their firearms. This effort and the associated risks would make the stolen item of more value. Therefore less likely to come into the hands of the “common or garden” crim. The common or garden crim is the one who robs the petrol station and gers away with a few hundred bucks. When he gets caught he gets to do a substantial whack. Or at least he does here in WA.
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Re: Am I missing something?

Post by Wombat » 04 Mar 2018, 2:37 pm

burek wrote:Appearance laws. Appearance to whom? We're not supposed to be brandishing guns in front of the public so who cares what they may appear like to the clueless? What is "military appearance" anyway? Why isn't this contested in courts. Just seems to me like it couldn't stand up to a well reasoned argument in front of a non biased judge.


I think the Idea with the Appearance laws was to reduce the appeal for those who want to play soldiers.
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