Spent brass in WA

Questions about Western Australian gun and ammunition laws. W.A. Firearms Act 1973.

Re: Spent brass in WA

Post by holden4th » 19 Mar 2018, 6:04 pm

Can someone post what schedule 4 says?
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Re: Spent brass in WA

Post by Oldbloke » 19 Mar 2018, 8:02 pm

See daddybangs earlier oost
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Re: Spent brass in WA

Post by Die Judicii » 19 Mar 2018, 9:02 pm

Daddybang wrote:
Grumpy wrote:Possessing casings for calibres not on your licence can have the potential to bring you unstuck big time if you’re not careful.


Yep and even if ya have a ammo collectors license the collection must be stored the same as live ammunition :drinks:


So what do the museums do,,,,, and the RSL exhibitions,,,,, ???

Don't tell me,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, They have had special GLASS safes/vaults made to keep them in, so the public can still see them.

Don't the WA pollies have anything proper to do ?

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Re: Spent brass in WA

Post by bladeracer » 19 Mar 2018, 10:56 pm

Die Judicii wrote:So what do the museums do,,,,, and the RSL exhibitions,,,,, ???

Don't tell me,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, They have had special GLASS safes/vaults made to keep them in, so the public can still see them.


We used to have an incredible collection of small arms in the ARMY museum just north of Perth, then they took all the hundreds of firearms, crated them up and hid them away in some dark place where they couldn't frighten politicians :-(
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Re: Spent brass in WA

Post by kb1 » 24 Mar 2018, 9:27 am

how does this type of sh*t even get voted into law over here. next theyll closed down ranges due to millions of spent (live) ammo shells laying on the ground
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Re: Spent brass in WA

Post by Daddybang » 24 Mar 2018, 11:30 am

kb1 wrote:how does this type of sh*t even get voted into law over here. next theyll closed down ranges due to millions of spent (live) ammo shells laying on the ground


They don't legislate they regulate which means it doesn't get voted on!! :drinks:
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Re: Spent brass in WA

Post by holden4th » 24 Mar 2018, 5:07 pm

Daddybang wrote:
kb1 wrote:how does this type of sh*t even get voted into law over here. next theyll closed down ranges due to millions of spent (live) ammo shells laying on the ground


They don't legislate they regulate which means it doesn't get voted on!! :drinks:


...well said. This is the crux of the matter. One thing to remember is that regulations (as opposed to laws) can be challenged.
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Re: Spent brass in WA

Post by John » 10 Apr 2020, 10:45 pm

Well I’ve never heard that one before but I live in nsw
I’ve got a few big buckets of spent brass I’ve been emptying my pockets in to for a long time I was going to take in to cash it in as scrap when I had a drum full seems to be taking for ever or I’m not shooting enough and we both no which one it is and it’s not taking to long lol

I’m going to have to look at nsw laws to see what they say about spent brass I will be taking one case in every day for the rest of my life they will get sick of typing receipts out quicker than I get board taking them in.
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Re: Spent brass in WA

Post by Ziege » 11 Apr 2020, 12:30 am

Take it from me, WA is a Fudd state for sure..... Lafo's, blokes working at the lgs, average plebs, all seem to have this attitude that having 0 control over your interests is normal and that they are lucky to have a pittance when it comes to liberties, they don't believe in fighting for the right to things, and they readily capitulate to the powers that be instead of enacting change. Trying to build any sort of lobby using lafo's in WA is like trying to cure lung cancer by smoking cigs. It's literally infuriating
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Re: Spent brass in WA

Post by bibendum » 30 Nov 2020, 5:29 pm

By law in WA, empty (even fired) centrefire brass, projectiles, Shotgun hulls, shotgun wads, primers all need to be kept in a safe that is the equivalent of your gun safe.
Spent rimfire brass is not designed to be reloadable, so would not class as ammunition according to the definition in the act (although stories abound of people getting charged with empty 22lr shell possession but it's normally to bolster other charges, not stand alone).

It's a crazy law but that's what it is.
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Re: Spent brass in WA

Post by bladeracer » 30 Nov 2020, 6:06 pm

bibendum wrote:By law in WA, empty (even fired) centrefire brass, projectiles, Shotgun hulls, shotgun wads, primers all need to be kept in a safe that is the equivalent of your gun safe.
Spent rimfire brass is not designed to be reloadable, so would not class as ammunition according to the definition in the act (although stories abound of people getting charged with empty 22lr shell possession but it's normally to bolster other charges, not stand alone).

It's a crazy law but that's what it is.


Does it specifiy in the act that brass only counts as ammunition if it is reloadable?
I thought it simply states "cartridge cases"
I didn't think wads were classed as ammunition though..
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Re: Spent brass in WA

Post by bibendum » 30 Nov 2020, 6:50 pm

bladeracer wrote:
bibendum wrote:Spent rimfire brass is not designed to be reloadable, so would not class as ammunition according to the definition in the act (although stories abound of people getting charged with empty 22lr shell possession but it's normally to bolster other charges, not stand alone).
It's a crazy law but that's what it is.


Does it specifiy in the act that brass only counts as ammunition if it is reloadable?
I thought it simply states "cartridge cases"
I didn't think wads were classed as ammunition though..


Given that you cannot readily and easily reload it. It is a single use item. A cop could possible try to bluff a charge, but all you would need to do is ask "OK, so how do I make this capable of being discharged from a firearm?"
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22H -223R - 243W - 6.5CM - 270W - 308W - 310Cadet - 303Brit - 38/357 - 30-30W - 45-70G
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45BP - 58BP
32SW - 9mm -38sp - 357M - 44M - 45Sch
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Re: Spent brass in WA

Post by Ziege » 30 Nov 2020, 7:02 pm

Local coppers here regularly wave farmers and others through with 22 bullets on the dash and a ute load of spent brass and shotgun shells on the back bouncing around the tray, I personally think its a city cop/young cop issue for one to spontaneously want to charge you over it, I mean the local mechanic and panel beater and auto sparky here could be charged daily if that was the case, especially shotgun shells and spent 22 brass.

other theory is those who get f***ed over have been a target for other reasons, yunno sorta like guilty by association, have a family member thats a bad egg, hotted up car thats always hooning around, bragging about gun related stuff infront of snowflakes, but I dont discount for a minute that there are just some cops that are complete ****** and should have never been given a uniform and gun.
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Re: Spent brass in WA

Post by bladeracer » 30 Nov 2020, 7:18 pm

bibendum wrote:Given that you cannot readily and easily reload it. It is a single use item. A cop could possible try to bluff a charge, but all you would need to do is ask "OK, so how do I make this capable of being discharged from a firearm?"


Does the Act require that it is possible to reload it?
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Re: Spent brass in WA

Post by rc42 » 30 Nov 2020, 8:26 pm

A literal interpretation of WA legislation includes brass as a component of ammunition and therefore subject to all of the restrictions that are applied to loaded ammunition.

However, there has been recognition at high level that the wording should be amended to exclude empty brass whether reloadable or not (chapter 5.1 in the pdf file linked). Not sure how far this is from being adopted but the chance of being prosecuted for possession of empty brass appears to very low.

https://www.parliament.wa.gov.au/public ... p-4930.pdf
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Re: Spent brass in WA

Post by animalpest » 30 Nov 2020, 8:34 pm

The WA Firearms Act describes ammunition as anything designed to be "discharged from a firearm". I dont think my rifles dischrge brass cases as they are still in the gun, but they do bullets, powder and primers.
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Re: Spent brass in WA

Post by Ziege » 30 Nov 2020, 8:48 pm

animalpest wrote:The WA Firearms Act describes ammunition as anything designed to be "discharged from a firearm". I dont think my rifles dischrge brass cases as they are still in the gun, but they do bullets, powder and primers.



really? I mean if my rifle was shooting out powder I would seriously think about changing what loads I use or switch to a different brand of ammo, More worrying perhaps that your primers are discharged from the gun? how on earth is that happening then?
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Re: Spent brass in WA

Post by animalpest » 30 Nov 2020, 9:35 pm

Your rifle certainly discharges the powder. It comes out the barrel as burn powder and gas. Perhaps reading the dictionsry will allow you to see what I mean and the Act means.
So going back to the brass, no it is not exiting the firearm such as powder, bullet and priming compound does. Brass cases, once fired and empty are not ammunition.
Last edited by animalpest on 02 Dec 2020, 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Spent brass in WA

Post by Ziege » 30 Nov 2020, 9:47 pm

animalpest wrote:Your rifle certainly dischrges the powder. It comes out the bsrrel as burn powder and gas. Perhaps reading the dictionsry will allow you to see what I mean and the Act means.
So going back to the brass, no it is not exiting the firearm such as powder, bullet and priming compound does. Brass cases, once fired and empty are not ammunition.



so technically it doesnt, It discharges chemicals that were once powder....

and the priming compound likewise. primer itself stays in the cartridge (we'd hope)
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Re: Spent brass in WA

Post by 1886 » 30 Nov 2020, 10:21 pm

rc42 wrote:A literal interpretation of WA legislation includes brass as a component of ammunition and therefore subject to all of the restrictions that are applied to loaded ammunition.

However, there has been recognition at high level that the wording should be amended to exclude empty brass whether reloadable or not (chapter 5.1 in the pdf file linked). Not sure how far this is from being adopted but the chance of being prosecuted for possession of empty brass appears to very low.

https://www.parliament.wa.gov.au/public ... p-4930.pdf
Exactly.

Guys you are getting your knickers in a knot over a badly worded definition that occurred back in 1973 when the Act came into being. At that time all those concerned missed this error that unintentionally included cases also being caught up in the ammunition definition.

Years before the action taken mentioned above by rc42 I sought clarification of this issue with WAPOL and have written notification indicating that no action would be taken re cases not being in a safe.

But it seems we will need a Liberal Government in order to get any of the Law Reform Commissions recommendations put in place.
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