Intruder Alarms - Australian standards

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Intruder Alarms - Australian standards

Post by herman » 06 May 2018, 12:05 pm

Hi,
I'm in Victorian and are looking to get my collectors license - part of the requirement is that if you have more than five firearms, you require am intruder alarm system that complies with Australian Standard 2201.1:2007 which I don't mind but, I can't find any alarm systems that state that they comply with this standard. Can anyone assist with what brand model I should be looking at?
Thanks,
Herman
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Re: Intruder Alarms - Australian standards

Post by Mr.Seacucumber » 07 May 2018, 2:28 pm

I’m in the same boat would love to know.
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Re: Intruder Alarms - Australian standards

Post by bladeracer » 07 May 2018, 3:02 pm

herman wrote:Hi,
I'm in Victorian and are looking to get my collectors license - part of the requirement is that if you have more than five firearms, you require am intruder alarm system that complies with Australian Standard 2201.1:2007 which I don't mind but, I can't find any alarm systems that state that they comply with this standard. Can anyone assist with what brand model I should be looking at?
Thanks,
Herman


I had trouble trying to get a copy of the AS as well. I think it's because the AS is pretty basic and the installers don't want people to know that. I can't find the info I eventually found, but it was very basic.
What I ended up doing was sending the requirement from the Act to an installer, stressing that the _primary_ requirement of the alarm system is that it comply with the Firearms Act. I dealt with CTC Communications, but being two hours out of Melbourne I simply bought the stuff they specified and installed it myself, with excellent assistance from CTC whenever I got stuck. My DFO had no problem with the setup I have here when he inspected. I additionally wanted a system that could message our phones whenever it gets triggered. Then we can remotely log into our CCTV system to see if anything is happening on site before calling Police.
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Re: Intruder Alarms - Australian standards

Post by herman » 07 May 2018, 5:44 pm

Thanks Bladeracer, what brands and models of alarms did they think were suitable to comply with the AS?
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Re: Intruder Alarms - Australian standards

Post by bladeracer » 07 May 2018, 6:49 pm

herman wrote:Thanks Bladeracer, what brands and models of alarms did they think were suitable to comply with the AS?


I think most systems would comply. From memory, all the AS requires is something that will trigger an externally-mounted alarm and flashing light if anybody tries to access your firearms storage. PIR sensors covering the room you store your firearms in, movement sensors, door sensors, IR beams, etc. As I said, it's the most basic level of intruder alarm you can get.

I don't know if a collector's licence requires a higher level than the basic "more than fifteen A/B firearms". If it does, just copy the specific requirement and stress to the installer that whatever they give you must be compliant.

I went with a Bosch 6000 system, which is way more than I actually need. Wireless and tamper-proof PIR sensors, sirens and strobe light, wireless movement sensors on the inside of the safe doors, battery backup, tamper-proof box, key fob activation, etc. I've also got a second siren inside close to the safes to make it untenable for somebody to continue trying to access them after triggering the alarm. I also recommend setting PIR sensors covering each other, that way attempting to obscure one will trigger the other one.

Ideally, I'd like to add a smoke generator in the room but that starts at $2000 on its own.

I would contact CTC and ask their advice, they weren't any more expensive than other places I tried and were very helpful with me.
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Re: Intruder Alarms - Australian standards

Post by Hooper22 » 07 May 2018, 7:02 pm

As far as I know any system sold in Au needs to comply. Obviously avoid anything Chinese made. I have installed a lot of Ness d8 panels. Very user/installer friendly. Also, I thought that to comply it would need to be installed by a licensed technician? (I am licensed, I forget whats actually in there as the industry is not particularly well regulated. Unlike electrical)
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Post by bladeracer » 07 May 2018, 8:13 pm

Hooper22 wrote:As far as I know any system sold in Au needs to comply. Obviously avoid anything Chinese made. I have installed a lot of Ness d8 panels. Very user/installer friendly. Also, I thought that to comply it would need to be installed by a licensed technician? (I am licensed, I forget whats actually in there as the industry is not particularly well regulated. Unlike electrical)



No idea, but the systems are pretty simple plug-n-play nowadays, I can't see that a technician would do anything differently. Being wireless, there isn't even any wiring to be run. Getting somebody to actually come out here to install it proved a waste of time. One mob even came out to look for a couple hours but never bothered to get back with a quote.

The DFO was hardly interested at all so I assume it's something that nobody really cares about until an "incident" occurs. Out here, the light and siren are unlikely to deter any thief, but I need that to comply with the law. Being able to view the cameras remotely is the important part for me.
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Re: Intruder Alarms - Australian standards

Post by herman » 07 May 2018, 8:55 pm

Thanks Bladeracer and Hooper22, your input helps a lot. It's a bit difficult to come by some of this information.
Cheers,
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Re: Intruder Alarms - Australian standards

Post by Wombat » 07 May 2018, 9:15 pm

Here you go - https://infostore.saiglobal.com/en-au/S ... 07-364548/ $130 odd dollars (which is cheap for a standard) for a one use PDF.

You would think that it would be in the public interest for the Government printers to make copies of standards available at minimum cost, not the way it works unfortunately. I've spent thousands on useless standards for various work projects, all part of our level playing field. :unknown:
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Re: Intruder Alarms - Australian standards

Post by Oldbloke » 08 May 2018, 1:55 am

That standard seems to have 5 parts.


https://www.smartersecurity.com.au/for- ... standards/
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Re: Intruder Alarms - Australian standards

Post by Mr.Seacucumber » 08 May 2018, 8:38 am

bladeracer wrote:
herman wrote:Thanks Bladeracer, what brands and models of alarms did they think were suitable to comply with the AS?


I think most systems would comply. From memory, all the AS requires is something that will trigger an externally-mounted alarm and flashing light if anybody tries to access your firearms storage. PIR sensors covering the room you store your firearms in, movement sensors, door sensors, IR beams, etc. As I said, it's the most basic level of intruder alarm you can get.

I don't know if a collector's licence requires a higher level than the basic "more than fifteen A/B firearms". If it does, just copy the specific requirement and stress to the installer that whatever they give you must be compliant.

I went with a Bosch 6000 system, which is way more than I actually need. Wireless and tamper-proof PIR sensors, sirens and strobe light, wireless movement sensors on the inside of the safe doors, battery backup, tamper-proof box, key fob activation, etc. I've also got a second siren inside close to the safes to make it untenable for somebody to continue trying to access them after triggering the alarm. I also recommend setting PIR sensors covering each other, that way attempting to obscure one will trigger the other one.

Ideally, I'd like to add a smoke generator in the room but that starts at $2000 on its own.

I would contact CTC and ask their advice, they weren't any more expensive than other places I tried and were very helpful with me.


A smoke generator? Oh dude that’s awesome. Thanks for the information as well. I thought it needed to be back to base.
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Re: Intruder Alarms - Australian standards

Post by bladeracer » 08 May 2018, 10:39 am

Mr.Seacucumber wrote:A smoke generator? Oh dude that’s awesome. Thanks for the information as well. I thought it needed to be back to base.


I think filling the room with smoke is the most effective way to protect my firearms against theft, you can't steal what you can't see.

For a collector's licence, a monitored alarm might be required - I'm only talking about the more-than-15-Cat A/B firearms. Cat H might be different also.

Even ambulances responding to heart attack take twenty minutes out here, I don't see a monitored system being of any benefit here.
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Re: Intruder Alarms - Australian standards

Post by Hooper22 » 08 May 2018, 6:50 pm

Just checked my copy of 2201.1 (part 1)
There doesn't appear to be anything in there about being a licensed installer.
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Post by Hooper22 » 08 May 2018, 6:53 pm

Wombat wrote:Here you go - https://infostore.saiglobal.com/en-au/S ... 07-364548/ $130 odd dollars (which is cheap for a standard) for a one use PDF.

You would think that it would be in the public interest for the Government printers to make copies of standards available at minimum cost, not the way it works unfortunately. I've spent thousands on useless standards for various work projects, all part of our level playing field. :unknown:

Yes this is something that has bothered me in past. Especially when they update them constantly and expect you to buy new copies every time
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Post by Oldbloke » 08 May 2018, 9:03 pm

Hooper22 wrote:
Wombat wrote:Here you go - https://infostore.saiglobal.com/en-au/S ... 07-364548/ $130 odd dollars (which is cheap for a standard) for a one use PDF.

You would think that it would be in the public interest for the Government printers to make copies of standards available at minimum cost, not the way it works unfortunately. I've spent thousands on useless standards for various work projects, all part of our level playing field. :unknown:

Yes this is something that has bothered me in past. Especially when they update them constantly and expect you to buy new copies every time


Correct. I can assure you that is the case for many professionals. Including myself.
It was originally government owned and it was sold off for a fast & short sighted buck.
Just makes me mad as hell.
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Re: Intruder Alarms - Australian standards

Post by darwindingo » 08 May 2018, 9:53 pm

As long as the world keeps turning this kind of crap will continue, always be some kent with another way to buck ya over.. :thumbsdown:
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Re: Intruder Alarms - Australian standards

Post by brett1868 » 08 May 2018, 11:03 pm

Who needs an alarm when I have 400 acres, a shovel and a ute with a tray liner? No such requirement in NSW (Yet) though I've got a fairly comprehensive security setup anyway.
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Re: Intruder Alarms - Australian standards

Post by darwindingo » 08 May 2018, 11:25 pm

brett1868 wrote:Who needs an alarm when I have 400 acres, a shovel and a ute with a tray liner? .


I get that 400 acres would make it harder for intruders to find where ya guns are, but how does the ute and tray liner help... :lol:

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An "Unintended Discharge" is nothing more than the lack of appropriate safety procedures or the failure to follow them..!

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Re: Intruder Alarms - Australian standards

Post by brett1868 » 08 May 2018, 11:32 pm

"But how does the ute and tray liner help"

Not good to get blood on paint, it can cause fading :)
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Re: Intruder Alarms - Australian standards

Post by darwindingo » 09 May 2018, 12:36 am

brett1868 wrote:"But how does the ute and tray liner help"

Not good to get blood on paint, it can cause fading :)


Thanks for the tip :)

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Re: Intruder Alarms - Australian standards

Post by bladeracer » 09 May 2018, 1:39 am

brett1868 wrote:"But how does the ute and tray liner help"

Not good to get blood on paint, it can cause fading :)


Also causes corrosion on ferrous metal, very annoying.
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Re: Intruder Alarms - Australian standards

Post by bigfellascott » 09 May 2018, 5:16 am

bladeracer wrote:
herman wrote:Hi,
I'm in Victorian and are looking to get my collectors license - part of the requirement is that if you have more than five firearms, you require am intruder alarm system that complies with Australian Standard 2201.1:2007 which I don't mind but, I can't find any alarm systems that state that they comply with this standard. Can anyone assist with what brand model I should be looking at?
Thanks,
Herman


I had trouble trying to get a copy of the AS as well. I think it's because the AS is pretty basic and the installers don't want people to know that. I can't find the info I eventually found, but it was very basic.
What I ended up doing was sending the requirement from the Act to an installer, stressing that the _primary_ requirement of the alarm system is that it comply with the Firearms Act. I dealt with CTC Communications, but being two hours out of Melbourne I simply bought the stuff they specified and installed it myself, with excellent assistance from CTC whenever I got stuck. My DFO had no problem with the setup I have here when he inspected. I additionally wanted a system that could message our phones whenever it gets triggered. Then we can remotely log into our CCTV system to see if anything is happening on site before calling Police.


Will that messaging setup work if you are in a dead spot with no phone reception?
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Re: Intruder Alarms - Australian standards

Post by Gwion » 09 May 2018, 6:32 am

brett1868 wrote:Who needs an alarm when I have 400 acres, a shovel and a ute with a tray liner? No such requirement in NSW (Yet) though I've got a fairly comprehensive security setup anyway.


Brett, Brett, Brett...

Don't use your own property where it will lead straight back to you... that's what state parks are for!!! :thumbsup:
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Re: Intruder Alarms - Australian standards

Post by bladeracer » 09 May 2018, 7:48 am

bigfellascott wrote:Will that messaging setup work if you are in a dead spot with no phone reception?


Probably not, but I haven't found anywhere with no reception yet other than out on the Nullabor.
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Re: Intruder Alarms - Australian standards

Post by bigfellascott » 09 May 2018, 7:55 am

bladeracer wrote:
bigfellascott wrote:Will that messaging setup work if you are in a dead spot with no phone reception?


Probably not, but I haven't found anywhere with no reception yet other than out on the Nullabor.


Thanks for that mate, sadly I go about 5mins out of town and I have no reception at all :thumbsdown: Sounds like a great setup you have there, was thinking of putting in some sort of system for the shed and house. :drinks:
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Re: Intruder Alarms - Australian standards

Post by bladeracer » 09 May 2018, 8:37 am

bladeracer wrote:Also causes corrosion on ferrous metal, very annoying.


Having posted that, I've just cleaned the blood off my rifle. I was dragged out very early this morning to knock off a big buck 'roo hit by a quarry truck up the road. Three-inches of his left femur are just splinters on the road :-(
Had a mob of four bouncing along the fence line looking for him so I dragged him all the way back to the house. Hopefully the rest have gone back to the bush now, but if not they can follow the drag back to his body for closure. Then Rose discovered two of our rabbits were out, so we had to chase them down. During which I managed to collect a rear foot across the left side of my face, bloody hell - gonna need a box of bandaids and a nice lie down after this morning!
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Re: Intruder Alarms - Australian standards

Post by bigfellascott » 09 May 2018, 9:53 am

bladeracer wrote:
bladeracer wrote:Also causes corrosion on ferrous metal, very annoying.


Having posted that, I've just cleaned the blood off my rifle. I was dragged out very early this morning to knock off a big buck 'roo hit by a quarry truck up the road. Three-inches of his left femur are just splinters on the road :-(
Had a mob of four bouncing along the fence line looking for him so I dragged him all the way back to the house. Hopefully the rest have gone back to the bush now, but if not they can follow the drag back to his body for closure. Then Rose discovered two of our rabbits were out, so we had to chase them down. During which I managed to collect a rear foot across the left side of my face, bloody hell - gonna need a box of bandaids and a nice lie down after this morning!


:lol: A good start to the day mate, my mate barreled a roo the other day on the way back from cutting wood, I managed to miss about 3 or 4 of em about 10min before him, bloody nightmare driving around here in the late evening, even had to stop and help one young lady out who flattened a big buck that decided it didn't want to live any longer, stoved the front of her car in pretty well. That late in the evening I just poke along at around 70-80km/h in the hope it may help to prevent whacking one.
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