Children and guns

Questions about Victorian gun and ammunition laws. Victorian Firearms Act 1996.

Children and guns

Post by Metalmik84 » 12 May 2018, 7:48 pm

Hi everyone!

One of the main reasons i want to get back into doing some shooting is because it's a skill I would really like to teach my children.

From my understanding in Victoria you can apply for a junior licence at age 12 which is the youngest they can legally shoot. What I can't find much info on is whether I can teach them about gun safety, handling, maintenance etc before that age.

Can anyone clarify where things stand in that regard?
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Re: Children and guns

Post by bladeracer » 12 May 2018, 8:06 pm

Metalmik84 wrote:Hi everyone!

One of the main reasons i want to get back into doing some shooting is because it's a skill I would really like to teach my children.

From my understanding in Victoria you can apply for a junior licence at age 12 which is the youngest they can legally shoot. What I can't find much info on is whether I can teach them about gun safety, handling, maintenance etc before that age.

Can anyone clarify where things stand in that regard?


You can teach them all that, but not with access to real firearms or ammo. And under the current legal definition of "firearm", that includes anything that looks very similar to a real firearm, even if you carve one out of wood and paint it black - ludicrous.
Platatac do the blue guns for training, which are legal in Victoria. Most are around $400 for longs and $125 for shorts though.

EDIT: I should add that you can teach an adult this stuff with fake or real firearms and ammo, but only on an approved range.
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Re: Children and guns

Post by Metalmik84 » 12 May 2018, 8:31 pm

Cheers bladeracer!

I assumed that was the case but had my fingers crossed for a little more leniency. I think it's a shame children can't be educated with the real thing younger but it is what it is I guess.
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Re: Children and guns

Post by bladeracer » 12 May 2018, 8:50 pm

Metalmik84 wrote:Cheers bladeracer!

I assumed that was the case but had my fingers crossed for a little more leniency. I think it's a shame children can't be educated with the real thing younger but it is what it is I guess.


This is how they're going to kill us off, by preventing young blood from entering the sport. By the time they're old enough to handle firearms our school system will have educated them thoroughly about the evils of firearms.
At eleven-years-old you can teach them in Qld I think, even on private property, and WA has no minimum age restriction that I'm aware of.
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Re: Children and guns

Post by Bent Arrow » 12 May 2018, 8:55 pm

Minimum age is 10 to use class A under direct supervision in SA
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Re: Children and guns

Post by brett1868 » 12 May 2018, 9:05 pm

12 in NSW but nothing saying you can't pretend Nerf guns are real and use them for training purposes.
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Re: Children and guns

Post by sungazer » 12 May 2018, 9:11 pm

It starts in the home when you are using guns children cant have access to them but they see you with them. You obviously may have children around when you are cleaning and they come to watch thats when you educate them about never going in front of the barrel ect. Practice good safety yourself and they will learn by coping your actions just as they learn most other things.
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Re: Children and guns

Post by bladeracer » 12 May 2018, 9:18 pm

brett1868 wrote:12 in NSW but nothing saying you can't pretend Nerf guns are real and use them for training purposes.


How are these murder machines legal!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2yIMJ4iayg
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Re: Children and guns

Post by marksman » 12 May 2018, 10:31 pm

I promote that you should teach your children to handle firearms safely if you have them in your home :thumbsup:
let them explore them safely and get rid of the fascination they have so you know they will not be trying to have sneaky peeks when you don't know about it
there is no law in Vic that says they cannot be taught firearm safety or handle the firearms under the age of 12
the only law is that they must be 12 to be able to shoot a firearm at a legal shooting range under the supervision of a licenced adult and must have a junior permit to hunt or take part in competition shooting under the supervision of a licenced adult
don't make it a taboo, let firearms and firearm safety be a norm for them :drinks:
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Re: Children and guns

Post by bladeracer » 12 May 2018, 10:46 pm

marksman wrote:I promote that you should teach your children to handle firearms safely if you have them in your home :thumbsup:
let them explore them safely and get rid of the fascination they have so you know they will not be trying to have sneaky peeks when you don't know about it
there is no law in Vic that says they cannot be taught firearm safety or handle the firearms under the age of 12
the only law is that they must be 12 to be able to shoot a firearm at a legal shooting range under the supervision of a licenced adult and must have a junior permit to hunt or take part in competition shooting under the supervision of a licenced adult
don't make it a taboo, let firearms and firearm safety be a norm for them :drinks:


Wouldn't a child be considered "any unauthorised person", thus you cannot allow them access to your firearms and ammunition? Even unlicenced adults are prohibited from handling firearms or ammunition except under supervision at an approved range...
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Re: Children and guns

Post by Stix » 13 May 2018, 1:03 am

Im unaware of any law dictating kids under 10 or 12 cant shoot when on private property under supervision.

& Im with marksman all the way...!!!

The best thing we can do is teach them the respect young, & you can get them behind the firearms on private property...!

Absolutely nothing wrong with under 10y/o's busting beer cans with a .22lr & shooting their first bunny...!!

Not only was i head shooting bunnys at 100yds well & truely by age 12 through open sights on a sportco .22lr...i was helping dress out the days kill too, not to mention stripping & cleaning rifles.

Give young kids a confidence & respect for firearms from young...rather than the fear the uneducated have...
The man who knows everything, doesnt really know everything...he's just stopped learning...
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Re: Children and guns

Post by bladeracer » 13 May 2018, 1:58 am

Stix wrote:Im unaware of any law dictating kids under 10 or 12 cant shoot when on private property under supervision.

& Im with marksman all the way...!!!

The best thing we can do is teach them the respect young, & you can get them behind the firearms on private property...!

Absolutely nothing wrong with under 10y/o's busting beer cans with a .22lr & shooting their first bunny...!!

Not only was i head shooting bunnys at 100yds well & truely by age 12 through open sights on a sportco .22lr...i was helping dress out the days kill too, not to mention stripping & cleaning rifles.

Give young kids a confidence & respect for firearms from young...rather than the fear the uneducated have...


I went through the SA Act and Regulations and I can't find anything that makes kids exempt from requiring a licence to handle firearms. The nearest I can find is this:
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Re: Children and guns

Post by bladeracer » 13 May 2018, 2:14 am

And since I'm going through the regs anyway, for the OP the Victorian requirements.

Even a child with a Junior Licence can only handle firearms under supervision and only at an approved range.
An unlicenced adult can be supervised with firearms only at an approved range.
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Re: Children and guns

Post by gazza » 13 May 2018, 8:14 am

My kids are very used to firearms. The 14 year old is in a club and the 8 year old will be as soon as he turns 10. Both shot their first bunny long ago.
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Re: Children and guns

Post by Bent Arrow » 13 May 2018, 8:20 am

Apologies to the OP for the hijack from Vic to SA, but from the SA Act

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Re: Children and guns

Post by bladeracer » 13 May 2018, 8:55 am

Bent Arrow wrote:Apologies to the OP for the hijack from Vic to SA, but from the SA Act


Thanks for that BA.
So they can be supervised at approved ranges, but not elsewhere?
And only Cat A or air pistol?
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Re: Children and guns

Post by Bent Arrow » 13 May 2018, 10:11 am

bladeracer wrote:
Bent Arrow wrote:Apologies to the OP for the hijack from Vic to SA, but from the SA Act


Thanks for that BA.
So they can be supervised at approved ranges, but not elsewhere?
And only Cat A or air pistol?


My reading of the Act is that section of the Act describes people that don't need to comply with Act (e.g. they don't require a licence) if the other conditions of the Act are met, which in this example means that the supervising parent guardian has to meet the requirements (licence, storage etc). There is no specific mention of this part of the Act that exempts 10-14 year olds from requiring a licence only applying at club grounds.

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When the updated regulations came out last year I noticed that there is no mention of 10 year olds. I contacted firearms branch as it would mean my boy would no longer be able to shoot until he got older and they assured me that the regulations must be read in combination with the Act and that the relevant clause in the Act that allows 10 year olds to use class A firearms under direct supervision still applies.

I'd suggest making a phone call to firearms branch to confirm your own circumstance, noting that most of the time they will just quote verbatim the section of the Act / regulations.
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Re: Children and guns

Post by Growler » 13 May 2018, 10:32 am

bladeracer wrote:
Stix wrote:Im unaware of any law dictating kids under 10 or 12 cant shoot when on private property under supervision.

& Im with marksman all the way...!!!

The best thing we can do is teach them the respect young, & you can get them behind the firearms on private property...!

Absolutely nothing wrong with under 10y/o's busting beer cans with a .22lr & shooting their first bunny...!!

Not only was i head shooting bunnys at 100yds well & truely by age 12 through open sights on a sportco .22lr...i was helping dress out the days kill too, not to mention stripping & cleaning rifles.

Give young kids a confidence & respect for firearms from young...rather than the fear the uneducated have...


I went through the SA Act and Regulations and I can't find anything that makes kids exempt from requiring a licence to handle firearms. The nearest I can find is this:


Ring your states firearms branch. Ive had the exact query and couldnt find the answer in the regs. (SA) So i rang the SAPOL firearms branch on Friday. Minimum age on private property with a licenced person is 10yr old and 14 at a club.
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Re: Children and guns

Post by marksman » 13 May 2018, 11:03 am

bladeracer wrote:
marksman wrote:I promote that you should teach your children to handle firearms safely if you have them in your home :thumbsup:
let them explore them safely and get rid of the fascination they have so you know they will not be trying to have sneaky peeks when you don't know about it
there is no law in Vic that says they cannot be taught firearm safety or handle the firearms under the age of 12
the only law is that they must be 12 to be able to shoot a firearm at a legal shooting range under the supervision of a licenced adult and must have a junior permit to hunt or take part in competition shooting under the supervision of a licenced adult
don't make it a taboo, let firearms and firearm safety be a norm for them :drinks:


Wouldn't a child be considered "any unauthorised person", thus you cannot allow them access to your firearms and ammunition? Even unlicenced adults are prohibited from handling firearms or ammunition except under supervision at an approved range...


I see what you are saying but I recon its been over thought about

I have spoken to 2 local DFO's and told them how my young son when just out of nappies had a fascination with firearms
I stopped his addiction to having to hold all firearms put in front of him by giving them to him
eventually he lost interest, still loves guns but can walk past them now
the 2 DFO's said "great idea"

what you said about unlicensed adults only being able to handle firearms and ammunition under supervision at an approved range is not true, any adult or child (under supervision) can go into a gun shop and handle firearms they are interested in buying
some gunshop's ask for a licence but it is not law to produce it to handle a firearm, its there policy

anyway its all about making firearms the norm in our society again,
teach them properly young or leave it up to the x-box what do you recon :unknown:
I think its more important to teach my kids about firearm safety than gender farken fluidity :thumbsup:
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Re: Children and guns

Post by Stix » 13 May 2018, 11:43 am

You're bang on about the fascination marksman...

The only firearms i couldnt regularly touch & never got to shoot were the ol'mans old winchester levers...
All i wanted to do was handle them & cycle the action...& i to the ol'mans annoyance i did it as often as i could.

Now im middle aged & to this day every time i open his safe i have to pick them up, handle & cycle them.
He took one up the farm last year to shut me up & i finally got to crack some rounds out of the carbine...

Love gender fluidity line :lol: . :thumbsup:
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Re: Children and guns

Post by Download » 01 Jun 2018, 7:42 pm

I was under the impression only NSW has a rule requiring all people using a firearm to have a license. Here in SA I've always been under the impression that a person can use a firearm under the supervision of a person with a license for that firearm.

In fact, looking it up:

8 (2)

...

(g) (junior shooters on grounds of shooting club)
the possession or use of a category A, B or H firearm by a person 10 years of age or more but under the age of 18 years on the grounds of a shooting club for the purpose of shooting in a manner authorised by the club, provided that:
(i)
the person is a member of a shooting club; and
(ii)
the person is (with the consent of his or her parent or guardian) with, and is under the continuous supervision of, a recognised coach who holds a firearms licence authorising possession of the firearm for the purpose for which it is being used; or

...

(q)
(supervised use by 14 to 18 year-olds)
the possession or use of a category A, B or H firearm by a person 14 years of age or more but under the age of 18 years if:
(i)
the person is with, and is under the continuous supervision of, his or her parent or guardian or some other person approved by his or her parent or guardian; and
(ii)
the person providing the supervision holds a firearms licence authorising possession of the firearm for the purpose for which it is being used; or

(r)
(supervised use by 10 to 14 year-olds)
the possession or use of a category A firearm or an air handgun by a person 10 years of age or more but under the age of 14 years if:
(i)
the person is with, and is under the continuous supervision of, his or her parent or guardian or some other person approved by his or her parent or guardian; and
(ii)
the person providing the supervision holds a firearms licence authorising possession of the firearm for the purpose for which it is being used; or


The tl;dr:

*10 to 14 year olds can shoot air pistols and Cat A firearms under supervision.
*10 to 14 year olds who are members of a gun club can shoot Cat A, B and H firearms at a gun club under supervision.
*15 to 18 year olds can shoot Cat A, B and H firearms under supervision.

A section in the regulations also allows a teenager between 15 and 18 who is a family member of a primary producer to get a Cat A or B license for primary production but they can't apply for a PTA. So they can loan a firearm from a parent, buy and possess ammo, but can't "own' a firearm.
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Re: Children and guns

Post by brett1868 » 01 Jun 2018, 9:09 pm

I was under the impression only NSW has a rule requiring all people using a firearm to have a license.


Not quite mate, In NSW any fit and proper person over the age of 12 can shoot without a license so long as they sign a P650, are on an approved range, under instruction and / or undertaking a firearm's safety training course. This is the legal method used for the "Try Shooting" programs run by various organisations such as the SSAA. I volunteer 2 hrs every Saturday morning working with kids aged 12-17 in the SSAA's Junior Development Program at St Mary's Indoor Range and many of the kids are still under a P650 till their permits come through. My son got his Minor's firearms Training permit for Cat A & B a month after turning 12 and his Cat H permit 4 months later. He's booked in for graduation June 12th and will be a full member of the St Mary's Pistol Club and finally can shoot with me or Wylie27. I'll probably get Wylie27 to coach him a bit as they are both lefties and I want him learning from all different people.

Here's the boy with his 2nd place medal that he won in a 300m competition shooting the 6.5 Hipster :)
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Re: Children and guns

Post by Download » 01 Jun 2018, 11:54 pm

brett1868 wrote:
I was under the impression only NSW has a rule requiring all people using a firearm to have a license.


Not quite mate, In NSW any fit and proper person over the age of 12 can shoot without a license so long as they sign a P650, are on an approved range, under instruction and / or undertaking a firearm's safety training course. This is the legal method used for the "Try Shooting" programs run by various organisations such as the SSAA. I volunteer 2 hrs every Saturday morning working with kids aged 12-17 in the SSAA's Junior Development Program at St Mary's Indoor Range and many of the kids are still under a P650 till their permits come through. My son got his Minor's firearms Training permit for Cat A & B a month after turning 12 and his Cat H permit 4 months later. He's booked in for graduation June 12th and will be a full member of the St Mary's Pistol Club and finally can shoot with me or Wylie27. I'll probably get Wylie27 to coach him a bit as they are both lefties and I want him learning from all different people.

Here's the boy with his 2nd place medal that he won in a 300m competition shooting the 6.5 Hipster :)
IMG_4301.jpg

Good stuff. Still, you can't take your kids out hunting can you?
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Re: Children and guns

Post by brett1868 » 02 Jun 2018, 1:54 pm

Good stuff. Still, you can't take your kids out hunting can you?


He is legal for hunting with me on private property with the owners consent which is either me or my cousin most of the time anyway. He should have his 'R' license in a few weeks, so he's then able to book in for the state forest hunts as well. As per license conditions he must be under the direct supervision of a licensed shooter at all times which is no big deal. The other key thing is license categories, the boy cannot shoot a Cat A unless the supervisor holds that category, same for Cat B. I've got A,B,G,H + High Cal so the boy can effectively shoot anything from a 22LR up to 50BMG rifle or 45ACP pistol. Not that I'd hand the young fella a hot load in a 44Mag revolver though I will get him try some light loads just to build his experience and piss off the Anti's and Fudds at the range :thumbsup:
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