Making Parts and is it legal?

Questions about New South Wales gun and ammunition laws. NSW Firearms Act 1996.

Making Parts and is it legal?

Post by AngrySox » 13 May 2018, 12:07 am

Hi All,

This has probably been asked and answered here before but I can't seem to find anything...

If someone had the technical knowhow to produce parts whether its machining or other means like lets say the controversial 3D printing method. Are they legal? I would imagine grips for handguns would be where as any kind of action probably wouldn't be. Where is the line drawn? Could I get magazines laser engraved so my brother stops "borrowing" them for the range because he is too cheap to buy a second one.

I have found conflicting results mostly on google nothing solid on registry or police. That basically as long as it is cosmetic its ok, it would be no different than lets say home spray can camo. Where as any true modifications, which would require an armourer are not allowed. But if that is the case how can I get an aftermarket trigger or action? Is it a case of becoming an armourer or a business?

Thanks
AS
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Re: Making Parts and is it legal?

Post by bladeracer » 13 May 2018, 12:30 am

AngrySox wrote:Hi All,

This has probably been asked and answered here before but I can't seem to find anything...

If someone had the technical knowhow to produce parts whether its machining or other means like lets say the controversial 3D printing method. Are they legal? I would imagine grips for handguns would be where as any kind of action probably wouldn't be. Where is the line drawn? Could I get magazines laser engraved so my brother stops "borrowing" them for the range because he is too cheap to buy a second one.

I have found conflicting results mostly on google nothing solid on registry or police. That basically as long as it is cosmetic its ok, it would be no different than lets say home spray can camo. Where as any true modifications, which would require an armourer are not allowed. But if that is the case how can I get an aftermarket trigger or action? Is it a case of becoming an armourer or a business?

Thanks
AS


I can't comment specifically regarding NSW as I'm in Victoria.
Down here, only the serialised action is a "firearm", we don't need any kind of permits to own barrels, mags, bolts, triggers and such. In which case, I can't see why anybody would have any interest in whether you machined your barrel, bolt or trigger yourself, from bar stock, or made your own magazines or stock or chassis. I make various bits and pieces for my own needs, including my own bullpup chassis. I don't know too many operations that would require an "armourer", most stuff is fairly plug-n-play for somebody mechanically-minded. If you can build an engine you can certainly build a rifle. If you can tune a bank of carburetors you can certainly learn to tune a rifle. Cutting and recrowning barrels, threading muzzles, reaming chambers, bending bolt handles, drilling and tapping recievers, and head-spacing actions is all fairly straight-forward. Boring and rifling a barrel, and machining bolt locking-lugs are probably the hardest part of building any firearm. And making a firearm feed reliably from a magazine is probably the bit requiring the most finesse.
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Re: Making Parts and is it legal?

Post by Daddybang » 13 May 2018, 9:12 am

If you need a license to buy a part don't make it without the proper certs/license! :drinks:
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Re: Making Parts and is it legal?

Post by Nigel » 13 May 2018, 6:16 pm

You need to be careful of two provisions of the Firearms Act 1996 (NSW):
- s43 Carry on activities as a firearms dealer
- s50A Unauthorised manufacture of firearms

Based on commentary on their web site, it would seem that the NSW Firearms Registry considers any work done on firearms, even minor repairs, by persons not holding an firearms dealer licence to be a breach of s43. In my opinion, a court would find that the restriction in s43 only applies to activities carried out "in the course of a business" but, to my knowledge, this is yet to be tested.

Section 50A makes it an offence to manufacture a firearm, including assembling a firearm from firearm parts, unless you have a licence or permit to do so. I think the NSW police would consider any manufacture of firearms parts to be a breach of this section. The act does make a distinction between between a firearm and a firearm part and the Civil and Administrative Tribunal has said in obiter dicta that s50A does not restrict the manufacture of firearm parts (see Materson v Commissioner of Police, New South Wales [2017] NSWCATAP 206). In any case if you manufactured a firearm part and assembled it into a firearm, you would likely have breached this section. Firearm part is a defined term and includes barrel, action, trigger mechanism, slide, frame and magazine.
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Re: Making Parts and is it legal?

Post by AngrySox » 15 May 2018, 10:33 pm

Nigel wrote:You need to be careful of two provisions of the Firearms Act 1996 (NSW):
- s43 Carry on activities as a firearms dealer
- s50A Unauthorised manufacture of firearms

Based on commentary on their web site, it would seem that the NSW Firearms Registry considers any work done on firearms, even minor repairs, by persons not holding an firearms dealer licence to be a breach of s43. In my opinion, a court would find that the restriction in s43 only applies to activities carried out "in the course of a business" but, to my knowledge, this is yet to be tested.

Section 50A makes it an offence to manufacture a firearm, including assembling a firearm from firearm parts, unless you have a licence or permit to do so. I think the NSW police would consider any manufacture of firearms parts to be a breach of this section. The act does make a distinction between between a firearm and a firearm part and the Civil and Administrative Tribunal has said in obiter dicta that s50A does not restrict the manufacture of firearm parts (see Materson v Commissioner of Police, New South Wales [2017] NSWCATAP 206). In any case if you manufactured a firearm part and assembled it into a firearm, you would likely have breached this section. Firearm part is a defined term and includes barrel, action, trigger mechanism, slide, frame and magazine.


Thank you guys for your replies. This is more what I was concerned about, as while being specific in it's wording the law also is open to a lot of interpretation. Then throwing 3D printing into the mix I thought it may be a case of leave well enough alone. I don't see the police to call me into breach if I were to manufacture for my own persons, I know the laws make mention of suppressors but they don't say anything on brakes. In the same way that that they make mention of needing import authority under the Customs Regs, but you can purchase most items of the shelf at your local.

I would like to state that I do not want to manufacture firearms. The reason I asked about this is that I saw some people at my local range with "custom" grips for their pistols which they proudly told me were American made and cost the amazingly large sum of $120 USD, I thought they were average and was hoping to make some myself. I was then interested in seeing how far I could go with the idea, what would be considered "safe" by the community and what would be allowed by the registry. But would I be correct in thinking that if I can purchase it at my local, and IF I were to work out all the necessary mathematics, I MAY be able to make non functional parts for myself?

Thanks
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Re: Making Parts and is it legal?

Post by bladeracer » 15 May 2018, 10:49 pm

AngrySox wrote:In the same way that that they make mention of needing import authority under the Customs Regs, but you can purchase most items of the shelf at your local.


That's because the importer did the importing for you, if you want to import it yourself then you need the import permission.
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Re: Making Parts and is it legal?

Post by Rod_outbak » 16 May 2018, 5:38 am

[quote="AngrySox"][quote="Nigel"]You need to be careful of two provisions of the [i]Firearms Act 1996[/i] (NSW):
- s43 Carry on activities as a firearms dealer
- s50A Unauthorised manufacture of firearms

Based on commentary on their web site, it would seem that the NSW Firearms Registry considers any work done on firearms, even minor repairs, by persons not holding an firearms dealer licence to be a breach of s43. In my opinion, a court would find that the restriction in s43 only applies to activities carried out "in the course of a business" but, to my knowledge, this is yet to be tested.

Section 50A makes it an offence to manufacture a firearm, including assembling a firearm from firearm parts, unless you have a licence or permit to do so. I think the NSW police would consider any manufacture of firearms parts to be a breach of this section. The act does make a distinction between between a firearm and a firearm part and the Civil and Administrative Tribunal has said in obiter dicta that s50A does not restrict the manufacture of firearm parts (see [i]Materson v Commissioner of Police, New South Wales[/i] [2017] NSWCATAP 206). In any case if you manufactured a firearm part and assembled it into a firearm, you would likely have breached this section. Firearm part is a defined term and includes barrel, action, trigger mechanism, slide, frame and magazine.[/quote]

Thank you guys for your replies. This is more what I was concerned about, as while being specific in it's wording the law also is open to a lot of interpretation. Then throwing 3D printing into the mix I thought it may be a case of leave well enough alone. I don't see the police to call me into breach if I were to manufacture for my own persons, I know the laws make mention of suppressors but they don't say anything on brakes. In the same way that that they make mention of needing import authority under the Customs Regs, but you can purchase most items of the shelf at your local.

I would like to state that I do not want to manufacture firearms. The reason I asked about this is that I saw some people at my local range with "custom" grips for their pistols which they proudly told me were American made and cost the amazingly large sum of $120 USD, I thought they were average and was hoping to make some myself. I was then interested in seeing how far I could go with the idea, what would be considered "safe" by the community and what would be allowed by the registry. But would I be correct in thinking that if I can purchase it at my local, and IF I were to work out all the necessary mathematics, I MAY be able to make non functional parts for myself?

Thanks[/quote]

It might come down to the definition of 'Accessory', versus 'Firearm part'. If you can define the part you are manufacturing as an accessory (you mentioned making your own grips), I'd think you have a solid defence of showing that you werent modifiying the operation of the firearm as such.
As far as I can establish, grips are usually considered an accessory, and one often customised by the individual, (as are the choice of sights).
You could likely argue that given accessories are readily available on the open market without registration requirements (unless you live in some weird Mexican nanny state), you werent manufacturing firearm parts.

This would me MY argument, if plod ever wanted to take me to task for this. I'm not saying it would keep me out of jail, but I think it would be a hard slog for plod to prove that I was intentionally making black-market firearms.

My opinion.

Cheers,

Rod.
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Re: Making Parts and is it legal?

Post by Gwion » 17 May 2018, 7:44 am

That was a detailed and informative response, Nigel. :thumbsup:
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