20g slugs. Accuracy, effectiveness, range.

Double barrel, side by side, over-under, semi-automatic, straight-pull and lever action shotguns.

20g slugs. Accuracy, effectiveness, range.

Post by GojiraSteve » 17 Feb 2019, 9:41 am

Hey folks,

I'm tossing up on a lightweight O/U combination gun in 20g over 22lr for a kind of scenario - specific purpose.
Basically I hunt state forests a lot, and while there's not many rabbits where I go i almost always have one or two pop their head up while I'm walking around. On the other side of the coin I've never spotted a deer at 100+ meters where I didn't have time to unshlouder the pack and set up for a shot or commence a stalk.
The original idea was to have the combo in hand while I'm traipsing around the forest and a deer-capable centrefire strapped to my pack. If I saw a bunny earlier in the day the option would be there to drop it quietly with a 22short, alternatively if I was coming back to camp late and empty handed (therefore not so worried about noise) the 20g would be there to scoop up anything the might bolt across the track. In the event I spotted a deer it would be (as above) drop pack, unhitch the , centrefire and go from there.
But now I'm thinking do I even NEED the centrefire? Could a feller expect reasonable accuracy out of a rifled 20g slug up to say 100m?
Would a slug retain enough energy a that distance to get it done on fallow/reds?
All opinions welcomed
Sorry for the long post
GojiraSteve
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 110
New South Wales

Re: 20g slugs. Accuracy, effectiveness, range.

Post by wrenchman » 17 Feb 2019, 11:22 am

yes it will accuracy will depend on you and your gun get some card board and check your groups and were it prints
wrenchman
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1345
United States of America

Re: 20g slugs. Accuracy, effectiveness, range.

Post by GojiraSteve » 17 Feb 2019, 11:39 am

wrenchman wrote:yes it will accuracy will depend on you and your gun get some card board and check your groups and were it prints


Cool, so is 100m about as good as you'd get out of a slug d'you reckon? Or could you squeeze a little more distance out of it maybe?
GojiraSteve
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 110
New South Wales

Re: 20g slugs. Accuracy, effectiveness, range.

Post by bigpete » 17 Feb 2019, 11:57 am

Plenty of power. Accuracy may be there at 100m,but you'll not know till you try. I'd suspect it won't be in a smoothbore.
bigpete
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3577
South Australia

Re: 20g slugs. Accuracy, effectiveness, range.

Post by TassieTiger » 18 Feb 2019, 7:14 am

I’ve shot a couple slugs from smooth bore at my local set up - struggled to get anything consistent at 100m. Like big spread...in my book, completely unethical sizes groups - ie, aiming at the chest, might hit back leg type groupings...not good. But every firearm is different. I was just Messing around with the ata...few slugs, few magnums. Etc.
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
TassieTiger
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3704
Tasmania

Re: 20g slugs. Accuracy, effectiveness, range.

Post by GojiraSteve » 18 Feb 2019, 8:42 am

TassieTiger wrote:I’ve shot a couple slugs from smooth bore at my local set up - struggled to get anything consistent at 100m. Like big spread...in my book, completely unethical sizes groups - ie, aiming at the chest, might hit back leg type groupings...not good. But every firearm is different. I was just Messing around with the ata...few slugs, few magnums. Etc.


Hmmmm, the actual firearm in question is a Chiappa Double Badger, with the only alternative being a used (based on years out of production really WELL used) Savage 24. Alternatively 19 or 22in barrels. Probably not synonymous with top tier accuracy.
Methinks I gotta keep thinkin...
GojiraSteve
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 110
New South Wales

Re: 20g slugs. Accuracy, effectiveness, range.

Post by Archie » 18 Feb 2019, 8:46 am

In many parts of the eastern US, the "normal" deer round is a rifled slug, because you have to use a shotgun - mainly in areas with more houses. Can't remember who but at least one of the Remchester firms makes a bolt action shotgun that for all intents and purposes is a rifle with a smooth bore.

Mind you, a lot of those shotguns have some form of optic on them, like a red dot. In practical terms that'd get you more accuracy. And even so, seems like most people would max out around 75 yards - although of course I'm sure some stretch out much further.

I've had a similar problem with state forests - always see the bunnies when carrying a 308, and it's bloody frustrating. One thing I have considered doing - but never actually done - is get a collapsible pack rifle and have that in the bag for the rabbits. Of course it wouldn't be as quick as having a combo or a shotgun, but once you know they're there it's easy enough to set up and wait for them.
Archie
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 366
New South Wales

Re: 20g slugs. Accuracy, effectiveness, range.

Post by wrenchman » 18 Feb 2019, 9:49 am

i have shot deer with both typs of slugs the rifled typ and sabots the rifled typ even if you get good groups i would keep shots under 100 yards i have shot deer at 120 yards with them and did not get a pass threw on the vitals they loose energy.
You are good all day up to 100 yards as archie said we have to hunt with them in many areas i found that the maker of the slug will matter my gun does not like the winchester typ
wrenchman
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1345
United States of America

Re: 20g slugs. Accuracy, effectiveness, range.

Post by TassieTiger » 18 Feb 2019, 9:54 am

Would it be better to choose an applicable centrefire - then carry two diff coloured mags- one with downloaded subsonic ammo and one with the maximum loads - then use what mag suits whennthe opportunity arises ? Obviously the carefully chosen scope would have to have a suitable reticle that would allow for the differences...?
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
TassieTiger
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3704
Tasmania

Re: 20g slugs. Accuracy, effectiveness, range.

Post by GojiraSteve » 18 Feb 2019, 10:04 am

wrenchman wrote:i have shot deer with both typs of slugs the rifled typ and sabots the rifled typ even if you get good groups i would keep shots under 100 yards i have shot deer at 120 yards with them and did not get a pass threw on the vitals they loose energy.
You are good all day up to 100 yards as archie said we have to hunt with them in many areas i found that the maker of the slug will matter my gun does not like the winchester typ


Cheers wrenchman, my shotgun knowledge is a touch shaky, but am I right in thinking the sabots need to be shot out out of a rifled barrel?
Definitely only looking at smoothbore options at least for this loadout but keen to learn as much as possible.
GojiraSteve
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 110
New South Wales

Re: 20g slugs. Accuracy, effectiveness, range.

Post by RoginaJack » 18 Feb 2019, 10:54 am

What, 20g slugs; where would you get them from?

I'd look at a combo of say 12g and 7x57mm Mauser - bloody magic!
Boom, Boom! Tikka, Tikka, Boom! Shoot first, video later.
User avatar
RoginaJack
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1410
Queensland

Re: 20g slugs. Accuracy, effectiveness, range.

Post by GojiraSteve » 18 Feb 2019, 11:45 am

RoginaJack wrote:What, 20g slugs; where would you get them from?

I'd look at a combo of say 12g and 7x57mm Mauser - bloody magic!


I hadn't exactly got as far as researching specific ammo brands. But I'm working under the assumption that only rifled slugs would have a hope of making the cut (unless sabots can be utilised in a smoothbore).

the 12g/7x57 could be useful. Mind you I think my options would be limited to one of baikal's MP models, and with the trade embargo in place they're like hens teeth.
In any case I kind of expect that I'll get more out of having a rimfire in the combo. Assuming I can make the other variables work.
GojiraSteve
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 110
New South Wales

Re: 20g slugs. Accuracy, effectiveness, range.

Post by marksman » 18 Feb 2019, 11:45 am

the best part of shooting deer with a slug is that you can eat up to just about the hole :thumbsup:
IMHO I would just go for a double or under and over shotgun that you put a sight on
walk around with #4 shot for rabbits and if you see deer sign put some slugs in
I shot a double barrel for a guy who had a crook shoulder testing with slugs, rifled slugs and sabots a few years ago at different ranges
at 25 and 50 the rifled slugs shot into 1-2 inches at 75 they shot into 4 inches at 100 around 6-7 inches off the shoulder
I honestly thought that was plenty for bush bashing and jumping deer where you need quick shooting
I actually went home and thought very hard about putting an open sight onto my cashmore double barrel
the 1oz slugs did not work very well and the same for the sabots
you really have to just make your mind up with what you want and give it a crack, you will never know if you dont try :drinks:

another one to look at is the lever shotguns with a red dot sight, I know guys who use adlers effectively where you dont get enough time to use a rifle
the idea to use a shotgun for deer at close range quick shooting is a good one :thumbsup: :drinks:
“If you do not read the newspapers you are uninformed. If you do read the newspapers you are misinformed”. Mark Twain
User avatar
marksman
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3660
Victoria

Re: 20g slugs. Accuracy, effectiveness, range.

Post by bigpete » 18 Feb 2019, 12:18 pm

GojiraSteve wrote:
TassieTiger wrote:I’ve shot a couple slugs from smooth bore at my local set up - struggled to get anything consistent at 100m. Like big spread...in my book, completely unethical sizes groups - ie, aiming at the chest, might hit back leg type groupings...not good. But every firearm is different. I was just Messing around with the ata...few slugs, few magnums. Etc.


Hmmmm, the actual firearm in question is a Chiappa Double Badger, with the only alternative being a used (based on years out of production really WELL used) Savage 24. Alternatively 19 or 22in barrels. Probably not synonymous with top tier accuracy.
Methinks I gotta keep thinkin...

I'd avoid the double badger.
I owned one....for a while...
bigpete
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3577
South Australia

Re: 20g slugs. Accuracy, effectiveness, range.

Post by GojiraSteve » 18 Feb 2019, 12:51 pm

bigpete wrote:I'd avoid the double badger.
I owned one....for a while...


There does seem to be a fair few negative reviews hey. The 20g version is a fairly new addition meaning it's a special order. I'm not sure the $765 I was quoted is low enough to buy "a Chiappa" sight unseen. Mind you I've been known to talk myself into dumber things before.

Still I can figure out why there's not more combo guns on/in the Aussie market. Not being held to a tag system, or seasons to any great degree, its seems like more blokes could use that kind of versatility over here.
GojiraSteve
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 110
New South Wales

Re: 20g slugs. Accuracy, effectiveness, range.

Post by bigpete » 18 Feb 2019, 1:24 pm

The one I owned had a couple of glaring issues. For starters, the chamber in the shotgun barrel was off centre to the bore quite considerably.
Secondly,occasionally the firing pin for the 22 barrel wouldn't retract fully and as you closed the barrel the underside of the extractor would hit it,to the effect that eventually,after say 2 or 300 shots,the firing pin would no longer reach the primer along the rim of a 22 shell.
Thirdly,about a week into owning it,the front fibre optic sight fell out.

Customer service by the Raytrade rep was woeful. To start,he said everything was my fault. I pointed out that the chamber was offset in the factory,and the firing pin problem was allegedly quite common. Then he said they would fix it or replace it,but if the problems happened again,then they wouldn't do anything about it. So I just asked for my money back.
Oh,and they stuffed me around heaps when I ordered it. They sent totally the wrong gun to start with,then told my lgs it was going to take a fortnight to send the replacement gun from Melbourne to adelaide. I ended up contacting them myself to find out why it would take so long to travel what takes a day to drive....boom new gun within 2 days....
bigpete
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3577
South Australia

Re: 20g slugs. Accuracy, effectiveness, range.

Post by bigpete » 18 Feb 2019, 1:28 pm

Oh,and the rifle barrel trigger was absolutely atrocious,while the shotgun trigger was pleasantly good. And slug accuracy was around 18" at 20m
bigpete
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3577
South Australia

Re: 20g slugs. Accuracy, effectiveness, range.

Post by bigpete » 18 Feb 2019, 1:31 pm

And apparently the off centre bore in 410 at least was common. The rep admitted every 410 he had seen was like that,and 2 of my mates looked at them at 2 different shops and found the same thing....
bigpete
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3577
South Australia

Re: 20g slugs. Accuracy, effectiveness, range.

Post by Archie » 18 Feb 2019, 2:26 pm

Blazer make some really nice looking combination rifles but for what they charge you could probably pay someone to caddy all your rifles around the forest behind you for a couple of years.

Also looked up caliber adapters but not sure they're legal in Australia and even if they are, the reviews I saw weren't great.
Archie
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 366
New South Wales

Re: 20g slugs. Accuracy, effectiveness, range.

Post by GojiraSteve » 18 Feb 2019, 2:56 pm

Archie wrote:Blazer make some really nice looking combination rifles but for what they charge you could probably pay someone to caddy all your rifles around the forest behind you for a couple of years.

Also looked up caliber adapters but not sure they're legal in Australia and even if they are, the reviews I saw weren't great.


You're not kidding about the Blaser pricetag definitely out of my league. A caddy may just be in the pricerange before long though. My nephew's about a year short of a juniors permit. Perhaps I need to consider taking on an apprentice (read gunbearer)

The calibre conversions are legal but they only have 4 for the 20g. the only one of interest really was the .357 and if I could be sure it was a step up in accuracy and energy from the slugs it might just do the trick (its only an 8in barrel mind you). Problem is we would then be edging towards $900 territory for a bit of a jack of all trades tool.
GojiraSteve
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 110
New South Wales

Re: 20g slugs. Accuracy, effectiveness, range.

Post by wrenchman » 19 Feb 2019, 12:38 am

sabots are for rifled shot guns my son has a calier conversion his is not rifled a groups are not that good is the one you are looking at.
you will find a 20g will put a large hole threw what ever you want a 7/8 ounce slug will be going about 1700fps a 357 with a 158 grain will be going about 1300fps a 20g will put much more energy out.
keep in mind from what i under stand you are looking for a gun the will do a mix of things from small game to big game with the 22 and 20g you can have slugs bird shot and 22s.that will do what ever you want the one thing i do no is us as out doors typs we tend to have our ideas of what is best if this is what you are looking for give it a try.
i no guys that hunt with single shot shot guns they can shoot what ever they see deer rabbits and birds.
i
wrenchman
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1345
United States of America

Re: 20g slugs. Accuracy, effectiveness, range.

Post by duncan61 » 19 Feb 2019, 8:54 pm

The Hornady SST slugs look like the business
.22 winchester .22hornet .222 .243 7mm rem mag cbc 12g
User avatar
duncan61
Officer Cadet
Officer Cadet
 
Posts: 1905
Western Australia

Re: 20g slugs. Accuracy, effectiveness, range.

Post by wrenchman » 20 Feb 2019, 2:32 am

the hornady sst slugs are real good they are made for rifled barrels they will give you 45/70 energy down range and cost about 4 times what rifled slugs cost if you shoot them from a smoth bore make sure they print good
wrenchman
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1345
United States of America


Back to top
 
Return to Shotguns - 12 gauge, 28 gauge, 410 bore etc.