Looking for advice on first time buy for trap/skeet (

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Looking for advice on first time buy for trap/skeet (

Post by Cameron » 15 Aug 2019, 1:18 am

So, did some research on what to consider when buying first gun for clay and alot of what I seemed to understand was that alot of it is about fit and feel etc.

So went down to local gun store and just got the guy to run through a few guns with me and feel wise at least the silver pigeon felt the best in my hands and I've since learned beretta does a free fitting for you even on privately bought used guns so decided to go with looking for a second hand silver pigeon.

Now that I've made it this far with a budget of around 1900$ I'm looking at what more I might need to consider, I've run into this gun which has an adjustable comb which not many seem to have? but its a 2006 model so my next question would be how much should I be considering the age of the weapon? Some of what I read is that some people prefer the older silver pigeons as they believe they were made better, this one in particular looks beautiful to me and seems to have being taken care of well, any thoughts and/or advice between the 2 below?

http://www.ozgunsales.com/listing/71530 ... _used.html (the 2006 model)

https://www.usedguns.com.au/Product.aspx?p=147969 (Another one I was considering)
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Re: Looking for advice on first time buy for trap/skeet (

Post by Mattraff » 16 Aug 2019, 10:54 pm

Top one is a trap gun and the bottom link not working for me but a search on that site shows a silver pigeon s for 2k the s denotes sporter so both very different guns. A trap gun traditionally will be 30-32" barrels and a skeet gun about 28". You really need to decide on what discipline you want to shoot and then buy a gun to suit. If you just want to have a bit of fun a sporter is a great compromise.
The best thing to do is get down to your local club and try a few different guns as just picking one up in shop wont show you how it handles. Looking at the top gun it has had a lot of use as is shown by the top lever nearly being central I'm not saying it's no good just it's had a lot of rounds through it, I have an old 682X trap that as had well over 30,000 through it but is still in great condition. Beretta comp guns are best from the 682 series and up as they are more serviceable with replaceable shoulders.
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Re: Looking for advice on first time buy for trap/skeet (

Post by duncan61 » 16 Aug 2019, 11:36 pm

To the best of my knowledge in trap the birds are going from left or right and away from you sometimes both one after the other.Skeet there is a bird coming over your left shoulder and from mid height in front and crossing past you much closer.I would get a 28 inch barrel and use full and 3/4 for trap and improved cylinder and cylinder for skeet.I know people who have a 30 inch trap gun and a 26 inch skeet gun.I used to do trap with my full choke 27 inch greener and could let the bird get out a bit and smoke it as it reaches its highest point.There is also tower shooting which is coming from directly over your head and you use 8-9 shot its all to replicate real life hunting situations and lots of fun.Being aggressive helps within reason
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Re: Looking for advice on first time buy for trap/skeet (

Post by Cameron » 17 Aug 2019, 2:45 am

Mattraff wrote:Top one is a trap gun and the bottom link not working for me but a search on that site shows a silver pigeon s for 2k the s denotes sporter so both very different guns. A trap gun traditionally will be 30-32" barrels and a skeet gun about 28". You really need to decide on what discipline you want to shoot and then buy a gun to suit. If you just want to have a bit of fun a sporter is a great compromise.
The best thing to do is get down to your local club and try a few different guns as just picking one up in shop wont show you how it handles. Looking at the top gun it has had a lot of use as is shown by the top lever nearly being central I'm not saying it's no good just it's had a lot of rounds through it, I have an old 682X trap that as had well over 30,000 through it but is still in great condition. Beretta comp guns are best from the 682 series and up as they are more serviceable with replaceable shoulders.


First of all, thank you gentlemen for both of your replies! This is some fantastic information to consider!

With what you said in mind I went and did some research and honestly both disciplines sound good to me so I'm unsure which route to go yet, in saying that I went and looked at some guns as well as doing some more research on trap/skeet and have come accross a couple more I was wondering if you could look over for me?

Firstly I went in look of any 682's which I found to be a fair bit more expensive but came across this one which I could stretch to,

http://www.ozgunsales.com/listing/71850 ... rting.html

While looking for the 682 though I also ran into a 686 special which I'm unsure where it falls, the more interesting thing about this gun though is that it comes with 2 sets of barrels one set at 26" and one at 30" giving me maybe the flexibility for both disciplines? But the barrels chokes are fixed so I was unsure how much that hinders that idea of flexibility?

https://imgur.com/oglL6a3

Then lastly I ran into a new listening for a silver pigeon that basically seems to be a modern version of the 2006 model I posted in what appears to be excellent condition? But they haven't listed the barrel length but the adjustable comb if I'm percieving this right seems to be a trait of trap guns more then skeet so it probably means 30"?

http://www.ozgunsales.com/listing/72246 ... 12_ga.html

Any thoughts? Thank you again for your time!
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Re: Looking for advice on first time buy for trap/skeet (

Post by TassieTiger » 17 Aug 2019, 8:07 am

I have a 686 copy by ATA with 30 inch barrels and one thing to consider - check the height of your safe / shelves as it is the one firearm I have to store dismantled...they are looong.

When I quizzes some AA shooters - they advised the adjustable stock was an absolute requirement if taking it seriously as a consistent and fast “hold” is necessary without sights...that being said - I do reasonable without one on the Adler.
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Re: Looking for advice on first time buy for trap/skeet (

Post by rookie » 17 Aug 2019, 8:45 am

Hi Cameron,

I’ve got an SP1 Classic and love it and then ran into a bargain 692 Trap AS, which I love even more. Now I use the 692 for trap and the SP1 for skeet.

Both were second hand and the SP1 was from A W Grassi (see https://www.austguns.com.au/ which is his website) the first link u posted. The transaction was smooth and Angelo was very helpful and honest as I did everything online. I got to use my credit card, which for me gave me some extra level of protection compared to buying from an individual. I did, however, find his starting prices were a little higher than others but the SP1 Classic isn’t easy to come by.

The 692 I bought from an individual but the guy who managed it for him worked at a gun shop and was helpful also .. knew my apprehension buying online and second hand and did a deal where he shipped it to my LGS on half payment then let me see before I paid the balance for the LGS to release it. He couldn’t have been fairer than that. If I get the opportunity to buy from the LGS he works at I definitely will.

My tips for buying a secondhand beretta is:

1. Check the serial number with Beretta Australia (I emailed them and they get back to u same or next day). The “forever servicing” (and fitting) you mention is only applicable to guns imported by “Beretta Australia”. There are others that make a living grey importing guns and there are a surprising number of Beretta shotties that fall into this category. I’ve found some of those are even sold second hand by LGS, which I would have thought they would have steered away from for their customers sake.

2. Age - the chokes do give u a sense of the age of the gun (but Beretta australia can also tell u when they were imported). The diff generation of silver pigeons came with Mobil chokes (oldest) > Optima chokes > Optima HP > extended optima ho chokes (latest). I don’t think the actual chokes make a difference but could affect resale value if going with the generation with the oldest choke.

3. Condition - older Berettas which might have a better hand finish might look nicer but really u gotta handle it (or trust the guy selling it to u) to check it has a tight action. You don’t really want one that falls limp when u break open the action. Perhaps someone else can comment on Forever Servicing and whether they were able to restore a looser action? Most people measure this by the number of shells they tell u it’s shot. Think about how often and how many rounds you shoot. If u do 3 rounds a week (75 targets, this might equate to 120 shots?). Something that has shot 1000 has only seen a couple of months worth of use. 5000 shots may have only been used regularly for a year before the owner has upgraded / given up.

4. Adjustable stock is a very good thing - when I was buying mine initially, I thought it would be good to move onto an adjustable stock later but in hindsight it’s a very good thing to have from the start.

The thing is finding people who are knowledgeable and can help u work through the process of fitting it to u (which if u can get to Beretta in Dandenong is a major plus). The other thing is the person might be knowledgeable but they might shoot differently to u. Example for trap, I’m currently setup at 90%/10% (over/under). A very good shooter friend suggests I use a flatter setup 70%/30%. We can both shoot well but we would both advise a new person setup differently. Neither is “wrong” that’s just an example of the complexities of “gun fit”. A fun (but expensive) journey.

I can always convert my SP1 stock to be an adjustable by Beretta ~$550 or by guys like Joe Camilleri (really nice guy https://m.facebook.com/pages/category/G ... 150449963/) at a cheaper price. But if u can get it from the start, I wouldn’t say no.

5. My only other advice is if the price is right buy from an LGS.
- Horsley Park gun shop
- Safari Firearms gun shop
Both had SP1 new for around $2050

No adjustable stock but u might choose to get one later or go the route I did and come across a deal you couldn’t refuse :lol: and get a second shotty.

The thing with buying from a LGS is you make contacts - they can offer u discounts on ammo and lots of other bits and pieces or advice ..

Talk to ur LGS and ask them to keep u in mind if they trade in any good shotties. There are many that get traded in and sold at the LGS that don’t get a chance to make it online.

Good luck with the purchase - once you’re decided jump on any bargain u see .. don’t hesitate. There are many others that recognise the same bargain that you do.

Miroku and Browning are also good - I’ve shot a Fabarm which felt really good to shoot as well. I wouldn’t get the 686 on your budget .. better to get something newer. 682 however, I consider (based on condition) over a second hand SP1 because it’s the next level up.

Cheers,
Mick
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Re: Looking for advice on first time buy for trap/skeet (

Post by Cameron » 17 Aug 2019, 10:16 am

rookie wrote:Hi Cameron,

I wouldn’t get the 686 on your budget .. better to get something newer. 682 however, I consider (based on condition) over a second hand SP1 because it’s the next level up.

Cheers,
Mick


Wow thank you Mick for the incredibly detailed response and leaving me with even more to consider! After reading everything you gave me I went and did some research on POI as well and it does seem to be important! This leaves me wondering between the 2 guns even more and was wondering if you would mind helping me clarify some thoughts and help me understand more.

So to start with between the 3 guns I linked earlier (ignoring the 686) the silver pigeon is a DTL special Aus edition and was specialised to be used for trap when it was made (did some research on this as well), where as the 682 has 28" barrels and no adjustable comb but it is a level up over the silver pigeon? Could you help me understand by any chance what would be the trade offs and why it's considered a level up compared to the pigeon?

Also a quick query you talk about your SP1 classic, the classic is a different make compared to the standard SP1 correct? I did some looking and couldn't find any listings for a SP1 classic or much/any info about the differences of a classic compared to a standard SP1
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Re: Looking for advice on first time buy for trap/skeet (

Post by rookie » 18 Aug 2019, 1:15 am

Hi Cameron,

I must admit that I haven’t had a 682 but many of the guys I shoot with swear by the ones they’ve owned over the Silver Pigeon (they shoot Perazzi now). I think it’s because in the earlier models they were hand finished compared to SP which were more production line.

I believe the 682 action is slightly wider due to making them a little more solid and the trap versions are slightly heavier. Similarly my 692 (the next version of the 682) similarly has a wider action .. you wouldn’t think it made a difference but it adds weight and the foreend is wider. This (to me) makes it less likely to cant the gun.

Of course, there will be those that say the difference in sizes are so small “it’s all in your mind”. They’re probably right - but it’s those small things that contribute to gun fit and gives u confidence (which is all in the mind) and leads me to believe that it’s a level up - without comparing them in person, u might not miss what u don’t know, so don’t give it too much weight for now.

I’ve got fixed chokes and similarly some 682 come with them too and I believe they’re heavier than the barrels that feature removable chokes. I like the extra weight because to me you’re less likely to swing loosely.. for me it’s easier to control.

But the issue with 682 are they’ve been around for a long time .. and I’d assume they’ve been shot a lot .. so I’d only consider one if it was in ***really good*** condition (some rich guys safe queen ;) ) - one thing that also gives me confidence is if the action is still tight to close. Just feels like a solid gun then. So that would be a must for me.

The SP1 Classic is just like a standard SP1 except it has game scene engravings and higher graded wood. I think there are SP Deluxe which have the same wood upgrade but regular engraving. See: http://www.mialls.com.au/product/berett ... n-classic/ .. for me it was something that differentiated it from others and I liked the idea of getting something that might be more collectable in future.

The first SP1 you posted appears to be a 20G .. careful that that is what u want? I assume you’re after a 12G ..

the 682 has been reblued .. for that price $2200 i’d probably go with a new SP1 (and put the $150 difference towards getting an adjustable stock (and the $50 transfer and $50 postage you’re likely to pay)). Something that needed rebluing wouldn’t fall under my definition of really good condition.

The last SP1 again at $1900 could cost u more than $2000 if u consider transfer cost and postage .. when a new one is $2050? True it has an adjustable comb .. is this the DTL version you mentioned? Not sure what their going price in the LGS are these days ..

.. they say it was made for Aus but I did see a YouTube video of one from the UK :unknown:... anyway, I heard that Beretta make SP stocks with 4 different drops at the heel / comb. Importers can’t import each variation as they’d end up with some they can’t sell because people will inevitably lean towards one over the others .. I believe the DTL version is one of these variations with less drop at the heel .. giving a more parallel angle with the barrel / rib. A common trait for trap stocks (because u don’t have to point high up or down low as much in trap compared with other disciplines, like u would in sporting clays).

Anyway, I’ve been where you’re at .. researching and pricing everything I can .. when you’re ready you’ll jump on the one you want .. keep looking and pricing .. have a look at usedguns.com.au “include sold items” and look at the ones that have been “sold in less than 1 day” .. think why those have sold quickly versus those that have been on sale for weeks / months .. I wouldn’t be trying to save a few hundred dollars (over the same new gun) mainly because you’ll go thru that in ammo and not think twice about it over the coming months .. so investing that money in the gun is probably better than spending it on consumables :unknown: .. it’s also a risk buying second hand, so u wanna make sure the savings are compelling .. or it’s something unique or hard to come by.

Shoot as many different guns as you can .. you’d be surprised how many guys will let u shoot their guns at the range .. find the one that feels best and go for it :thumbsup:

Good luck!
Mick
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Re: Looking for advice on first time buy for trap/skeet (

Post by Cameron » 18 Aug 2019, 3:11 am

rookie wrote:Hi Cameron,

Anyway, I’ve been where you’re at .. researching and pricing everything I can .. when you’re ready you’ll jump on the one you want .. keep looking and pricing .. have a look at usedguns.com.au “include sold items” and look at the ones that have been “sold in less than 1 day” .. think why those have sold quickly versus those that have been on sale for weeks / months .. I wouldn’t be trying to save a few hundred dollars (over the same new gun) mainly because you’ll go thru that in ammo and not think twice about it over the coming months .. so investing that money in the gun is probably better than spending it on consumables :unknown: .. it’s also a risk buying second hand, so u wanna make sure the savings are compelling .. or it’s something unique or hard to come by.

Shoot as many different guns as you can .. you’d be surprised how many guys will let u shoot their guns at the range .. find the one that feels best and go for it :thumbsup:

Good luck!
Mick


Can't thank you enough Mick, have spoken with the local club that I'm going to be rejoining and have swung my work schedule so I can start going every Saturday and will try to get my hands on as many types as I can, once again you've given me some amazing advice here.

Thank you so much!
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Re: Looking for advice on first time buy for trap/skeet (

Post by Mattraff » 18 Aug 2019, 3:22 am

The 682 pictured is relatively old and would have had many thousands of rounds through it to warant that amount of work. My 682 X trap is a black action and they weren't blued but finished in some sort of hard coating as were the barrels. Sporters generally have a harder life as they get used for field shooting and back when the older models came out 32gram loads were the norm whereas today most use 28gram. The SP and 686 are a cheaper action than the 682 and their barrels don't have replaceable shoulders. The 682 came out in the early 80's I think and were followed by the 682 Gold and then the Gold E and t hve current action is the 692. Adjustable stocks are great for beginners as you can have them fitted easier and both my 682X and GoldE X traps have them fitted. My older 682 was fitted with a Beretta memory system by their gunsmith and was adjusted to fit me as was my newer gun when I bought it. If you are serious about your shooting and want to be competitive though you need to decide on Trap or Skeet as the gun dimensions are just to different to be able to swap between the two disciplines and be competitive. I personally would go with Trap as there are more comps organized than there are for Skeet. I would also save a bit more and buy a newer gun. If you buy a Trap gun with chokes you can still shoot a bit of Skeet for fun. I have chokes in both my guns and use 3/4 in the bottom and extra full in the top and never change them unless I have a round of Skeet, I use cylinder chokes for Skeet.
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Re: Looking for advice on first time buy for trap/skeet (

Post by rookie » 19 Aug 2019, 7:09 am

Sounds like great guns mattraff :thumbsup: .. you can tell the diff between 686:SP1 and the 682/692 .. price point reflects it but my 692 is a pleasure to shoot. The SP1 is great too but I’ve been neglecting her lately, might have to rectify that :D
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Re: Looking for advice on first time buy for trap/skeet (

Post by Mattraff » 30 Aug 2019, 10:07 am

Beretta have the SP1 field and sporting on sale for $2249 at the moment.
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Re: Looking for advice on first time buy for trap/skeet (

Post by ClaytonT88 » 30 Aug 2019, 11:54 am

Hi Cameron, I'm in the same boat and I'm looking at Mirokus mainly because of budget but there does seem to be lots of options out there. I had my heart set on MK70 Sporter but the more I read the more I wonder if it'll tick the boxes...
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