Which choke and top or bottom first

Double barrel, side by side, over-under, semi-automatic, straight-pull and lever action shotguns.

Which choke and top or bottom first

Post by flashman » 17 Jun 2020, 11:29 am

Hi just got my self a new o/u shot gun to break a few clay and the occasional bunny ,its a Miroku MK10 grade 1 12g ,a great bit of kit... :D
My first question is what choke would I use for clay target ,down the line..? N0 2 ,which barrel would you select first , top or bottom...…..ok ,thanks.. :thumbsup:
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Re: Which choke and top or bottom first

Post by BadShot » 17 Jun 2020, 11:33 am

I have the same one MK10 Trap, my understanding for DTL at least is you use the Bottom barrel first as it has a slight upward angle on it, This translates to a rise in the pellets for the rising target, top barrel is flatter for a second shot on a clay that has 'levelled out'. This could be complete nonsense of course.
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Re: Which choke and top or bottom first

Post by flashman » 17 Jun 2020, 11:42 am

HI and thanks Bad shot ,im in the same boat ,its all new to me ,cant get my head around the cokes , full ,imp mod, imp cyl ??????????????/
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Re: Which choke and top or bottom first

Post by BadShot » 17 Jun 2020, 12:57 pm

I left in whatever was in, I suspect until you are hitting 23+/25 regularly, chokes won't make a great deal of difference. I've been shooting Shotgun for around 18 months and haven't felt the need to fiddle with the chokes. Again for DTL a FULL choke will give you a better spread at the distance you are likely to hit a clay, having CYLinder in will spread the pellets wider earlier so much so that you might actually 'miss' the clay with pellet spread further out.
The folks at the club are pretty helpful though with all that stuff, as we are all keen to talk about our toys.
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Re: Which choke and top or bottom first

Post by Stix » 17 Jun 2020, 2:53 pm

The theory is usually bottom barrel first because it is closer to--or has a more direct line for the recoil to go directly to your shoulder, then recoil causes less muzzle rise/deviation, thus you require less correction for the follow-up shot through the second barrel.

So put the wider spreading choke in the bottom barrel for the first shot, & the tighter spread choke in the top barrel for the follow-up...

Understand that as the shot travels further away from the muzzle, it spreads further...so by the time the second shot has reached the target (that will be furthr away than it was for the first missed shot), the shot pattern would have spread out further to give you the same chance as the wider shot pattern did for the first shot...

have i confused you further...?... :lol:
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Re: Which choke and top or bottom first

Post by Oldbloke » 17 Jun 2020, 5:26 pm

Stix wrote:The theory is usually bottom barrel first because it is closer to--or has a more direct line for the recoil to go directly to your shoulder, then recoil causes less muzzle rise/deviation, thus you require less correction for the follow-up shot through the second barrel.

So put the wider spreading choke in the bottom barrel for the first shot, & the tighter spread choke in the top barrel for the follow-up...

Understand that as the shot travels further away from the muzzle, it spreads further...so by the time the second shot has reached the target (that will be furthr away than it was for the first missed shot), the shot pattern would have spread out further to give you the same chance as the wider shot pattern did for the first shot...

have i confused you further...?... :lol:


Yeh, that's the norm. Also the bottom barrel (1st shot) shoots the most shots off and being closer to the lugs helps extend the life of the gun.

Personally i prefer more open chokes. They help make up for my s**t abilities. Lol shoot fast, shoot open
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Re: Which choke and top or bottom first

Post by flashman » 17 Jun 2020, 6:07 pm

Ok thanks you blokes for the input , confused yes but Im learning just the same ,will check the cokes in my gat ,haven't had them out yet , up the club Saturday afternoon to kill some birds I hope , will report on how we go …...just a thought dose any one still reload 12g ,the man at he LGS ,said its cheaper to buy a 1/2 slab then reload,...………. :thumbsup:
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Re: Which choke and top or bottom first

Post by Oldbloke » 17 Jun 2020, 10:43 pm

flashman wrote:Ok thanks you blokes for the input , confused yes but Im learning just the same ,will check the cokes in my gat ,haven't had them out yet , up the club Saturday afternoon to kill some birds I hope , will report on how we go …...just a thought dose any one still reload 12g ,the man at he LGS ,said its cheaper to buy a 1/2 slab then reload,...………. :thumbsup:


Yeh, I do. But only because I have plenty of components in stock. And only shoot a few off ocassionaly.

Hes probably right if your not already set up and have plenty of shot in stock.
Try the club, they usually sell it cheap.
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Re: Which choke and top or bottom first

Post by Jarhead » 18 Jun 2020, 10:36 am

Hey Flashman,

For DTL, most shooters have the Bottom Barrel setup with an Improved Cylinder choke, and top barrel a Modified choke. The reasoning is that the 2nd shot is further away, so you need a tighter choke. Shoot Bottom barrel first, for all the reasons above.

People do still reload, but it seems to be phasing out. It is hard to save money doing it, its cheaper to buy cheddite style cheap ammo. The people that still reload do it for fun, or to try to achieve consistency better than factory ammo- and tailor competition loads for skeet.

Regards
Regards,

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Re: Which choke and top or bottom first

Post by TassieTiger » 18 Jun 2020, 5:22 pm

If your semi serious you might want to think about patterning you’re gun / shot shells - checking pattern and spread, on paper at 15, 25, 40 m or similar
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Re: Which choke and top or bottom first

Post by Blr243 » 18 Jun 2020, 5:28 pm

I think patterning is important but not done often enough because of the time, finding a place to do it. Setting up all that butchers paper. And unlike rifle once u have set up that big target , one shot and it’s cactus
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Re: Which choke and top or bottom first

Post by TassieTiger » 18 Jun 2020, 6:54 pm

My ATA under and over shoots left of centre by a couple of inches at 40m in bottom barrel - I only learned this by patterning.
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
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Re: Which choke and top or bottom first

Post by Mattraff » 19 Jun 2020, 5:09 pm

First thing first give that new gun a good clean and remove the chokes to clean the threads.
As others have said bottom barrel first.
As for choke selection you will find most trap shooters use moddified (1/2) or improved modified (3/4)in the bottom barrel and full in the top this can vary and all guns shoot a different pattern. There is a standard measurement that defines each choke but even this is not the same between manufacturers.
Different cartridges also pattern different to each other and differently in different guns but you generally use 7.5 shot in both barrels with some using 7 in the top barrel.
I personally use 3/4 and extra full in my gun and use 7.5 in both barrels.
As for reloading it is much cheaper to buy factory rounds. I was reloading years ago but that was when all the components were relatively cheap and easy to get. The cases that are available on factory rounds are not great for reloading anyway.
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Re: Which choke and top or bottom first

Post by TassieTiger » 19 Jun 2020, 5:20 pm

Can we please refrain from using the word “choke” - as the connotation with choking could be related back to incorrect arresting styles, domestic violence and similar.
Maybe replace the “choke” word with...I dunno...k**t?
As others have said - take both K**t out and clean the k**t threads. Then install 1/2 k**t in bottom and full K**t in top...
Sorry. Just over the PC insanity.

Edited on behalf of snags kids.
Last edited by TassieTiger on 19 Jun 2020, 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
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Re: Which choke and top or bottom first

Post by snag » 19 Jun 2020, 7:22 pm

Oh Tassie, Tassie Tassie.....
Understand what you're saying, but maybe just a little unrestrained? This is kinda a forum for everyone - maybe juniors as well? The term "choke" in shotguns actually comes from an abbreviation of "constriction" way back in the day. Completely understand your point about how ridiculous the political correctness has gone, but strewth mate, my kids read this forum.
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Re: Which choke and top or bottom first

Post by flashman » 20 Jun 2020, 5:03 pm

Well Ok ...……..Got the MEC 600 jr ready ,250 wads 20kg of 7.5 shot. can not get any AS30N any where ,what other powder could someone recommend ,load will be 11/8 oz ,shot size 7.5 ,Wads win AA 12 SL ..
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Re: Which choke and top or bottom first

Post by Mattraff » 21 Jun 2020, 12:20 am

You can use either AS50N or AP70N for 32g loads. There is load data avaliable on the ADI web site. If you are shooting trap the maximum load is 1oz or 28g. The WAA12SL pink coloured wad you have mentioned is suited for 28g loads as it has a shorter pellet cup than the white coloured WAA12 wad that is suited for 32g loads.
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Re: Which choke and top or bottom first

Post by flashman » 21 Jun 2020, 7:25 am

Thanks Mattraff ,and to every one for there input on my problems....got a insight ,now comes the learning curve.. :)
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Re: Which choke and top or bottom first

Post by Jarhead » 21 Jun 2020, 2:51 pm

Flashman,

ADI is now making APS450 and APS350, these are similar to AS50N and AS30N respectively. I think that AS50N & AS30N are being phased out, which may be why you are finding it hard to find. Look for APS350 instead.

Regards.
Regards,

Jarhead
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Beretta 680 Special Skeet 12G (1350 fps)
Savage MkII .22 (1040 fps)
1969 Mustang Fastback (227 fps)
Tikka T3 6.5 CM (2660 fps)

The Mustang looks the fastest but it's not.
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Re: Which choke and top or bottom first

Post by flashman » 21 Jun 2020, 4:08 pm

Jarhead, thanks I did not know ,will jump on ADI web site for a look ,that explains a lot ,wonder if they have new information on there bushing table for my MEC reloader ,600jr only have 5 or 6 bushing they so hard to find down my way...………. :thumbsup:
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Re: Which choke and top or bottom first

Post by Jarhead » 21 Jun 2020, 9:31 pm

I am happy with ADI's move......Now we can have 1 powder for both shotgun and pistol- yayyyy!. I recently bought 2kg of APS450- and it meters very well in my autodrum. Have yet to try it in my 1970s vintage Stirling shotshell press. It looks closer to ball powder than the old AS50N, which was a flat disc shape. I think it will do better in the old press too as it is not as flat. The flatter AS50N would slip through the side of the charge bar and make a small mess after 25 shells.

I am told that APS350 is a replacement for AS30N and AP30N, APS450 replaces AS50N and AP50N, APS650 replaces AP70N and there is also a APS950 replacing AP100N. I don't yet know if the metered loads are equivalent, but ADI has data for some and are working towards development more load data.
Regards,

Jarhead
___________________________________
Beretta 680 Special Skeet 12G (1350 fps)
Savage MkII .22 (1040 fps)
1969 Mustang Fastback (227 fps)
Tikka T3 6.5 CM (2660 fps)

The Mustang looks the fastest but it's not.
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Re: Which choke and top or bottom first

Post by flashman » 23 Jun 2020, 9:47 am

HI Jarhead thanks still got the problem of MEC powder bushings will have weight each charge through the bushes if and see how they drop …. :thumbsup:
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Re: Which choke and top or bottom first

Post by Jarhead » 23 Jun 2020, 2:09 pm

Regards,

Jarhead
___________________________________
Beretta 680 Special Skeet 12G (1350 fps)
Savage MkII .22 (1040 fps)
1969 Mustang Fastback (227 fps)
Tikka T3 6.5 CM (2660 fps)

The Mustang looks the fastest but it's not.
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Re: Which choke and top or bottom first

Post by flashman » 23 Jun 2020, 3:13 pm

Thank you very much ,Jarhead ,...…………. :clap:
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Re: Which choke and top or bottom first

Post by flashman » 23 Jun 2020, 5:40 pm

Hi got a slap of Bronze wing trap load $90 for 250 rnds that's cheap , bugger me why reload …………... :o
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