Hunting: What are shotguns for?

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Hunting: What are shotguns for?

Post by Troyus » 08 Aug 2020, 9:12 pm

Besides duck shooting.
We have an adler but just use it for a bit of fun. Would love to be able to hunt with it but I really have no idea how or what to hunt. I also have it in my mind that its only effective for 25M or so. Educate me please!
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Re: Hunting: What are shotguns for?

Post by CrackThump » 08 Aug 2020, 9:22 pm

Birds, bunnies, bucks, boars.... buffalo (if youre nuts)
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Re: Hunting: What are shotguns for?

Post by Blr243 » 08 Aug 2020, 9:48 pm

Only useful for game real close. 0-25 m Otherwise completely useless Sling a scoped 308 across your shoulder and it’s useful 0-250 m
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Re: Hunting: What are shotguns for?

Post by on_one_wheel » 08 Aug 2020, 9:51 pm

Pretty much anything you can get within 50 meters of provided your using an appropriate shot or slug.

In my opinion, the 12 gauge shotgun is the most versatile firearm you can get your hands on.
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Re: Hunting: What are shotguns for?

Post by bladeracer » 08 Aug 2020, 10:13 pm

Troyus wrote:Besides duck shooting.
We have an adler but just use it for a bit of fun. Would love to be able to hunt with it but I really have no idea how or what to hunt. I also have it in my mind that its only effective for 25M or so. Educate me please!


For crippling moving targets so you don't have to learn to shoot a rifle well ;-)

Yes, effective ranges are fairly short, but practicing will improve your aim so you can tighten the choke and extend the range. A full turkey-style choke really shrinks the pattern, getting closer to a rifle and pushing effective range out to maybe 60m or more on smaller game. Practicing with a gun will also help you shoot moving targets better with a rifle.

Always keep in mind though, individual shot is small and light, it dumps velocity and energy very quickly compared to bullets, regardless of choke. An ounce of BB shot is like shooting your target 55 times with a .177" air-rifle, if all the pellets hit it - if only five pellets hit the target it's like shooting it five times with the air-rifle. And BB's are twice the size, and six-times heavier than #7.5 birdshot. A 40gn .22LR bullet is five-times heavier than BB shot.

A 9mm pistol fires a .355" 124gn bullet, 000-buck fires nine .360" round balls of 70gn each, both at around 1200fps. At the muzzle each ball has about half the energy of the 9mm bullet, which doesn't matter much at close range when all nine pellets hit the target. By 50m it's down to about one-third, and fewer pellets hit the target due to the pattern. At 50m is it better to place one accurate 9mm bullet where you want it or place three pellets "somewhere" on the target?
https://youtu.be/XwdEAM8zttk?list=PLXuR1e3-QsIG-I1hl9srPAosfO2x55f3y
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https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXuR1e3-QsIETKLepvMeUyZ9dSeCQz9ew

With slugs though you can kill most things out to maybe 200m if you have an accurate slug, and decent sights.
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Re: Hunting: What are shotguns for?

Post by Oldbloke » 08 Aug 2020, 11:06 pm

on_one_wheel wrote:Pretty much anything you can get within 50 meters of provided your using an appropriate shot or slug.

In my opinion, the 12 gauge shotgun is the most versatile firearm you can get your hands on.



Spot on. Fast moving, generally smaller targets.
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Re: Hunting: What are shotguns for?

Post by mickb » 09 Aug 2020, 4:44 am

A lot of pigs get taken here with shotguns loaded with buckshot. Its kills further than 25m , Id say 35+ with the right load. The usual buckshot is 9 pellets of 00/SG or what the Americans call 00 buck, its a 33 calibre pellet from memory that weighs about 54 grains. The other option fellas like is SSG which is 18 pellets, I cant remember the exact calibre but its about half the weight of 00/SG, putting it between the US no.2 and no.3 buck in size. I did penetration tests on wooden planks with buckshot and 22LR about 25 years ago. Both beat 22LR. The SSG surprised me in this regard as its wider and lighter than 22LR, but the higher velocity made the difference I guess. You can buy heavier buckshot loads than usual as well or load your own. A 2 3/4" case can actually load 12x 00/SG and a 3" 15x 00/SG at full power.
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Re: Hunting: What are shotguns for?

Post by wrenchman » 09 Aug 2020, 7:20 am

after hunting with a shot gun for years in a area that did not allow a center fire rifles with the right load and checking if your gun can shoot it well there is not much a shot gun wont kill.
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Re: Hunting: What are shotguns for?

Post by mchughcb » 09 Aug 2020, 8:25 am

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Re: Hunting: What are shotguns for?

Post by RoginaJack » 09 Aug 2020, 10:38 am

Yep, I'm with wrenchman.
Find it ideal for feral dogs in thick cover, range up to 50 yds. and foxes too and feral cats and pigs...
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Re: Hunting: What are shotguns for?

Post by duncan61 » 09 Aug 2020, 11:46 am

A few posters have claimed shotguns are not that good however my experiance is simple.I left the Military in May 86 and did not even think about shooting again.In 1993 I worked at Sandstone in the bush building a mining camp and the main Contractor had 30/06 .222 trap gun skeetgun semi Browning and semi beretta 12g.We would go after goats and OO/SG in 12 bore will drop them out to 100 yards then if they were still kicking the other plumber would head them with the .222 or the boss would use the 30/06.I have dropped lots of goats by patterning the head area out of a moving vehicle while the goat is on the move.Not easy to do with a scoped rifle.I could not do it.The goats where we were are vermin and the water troughs are for the cattle.Its not hunting but vermin control.I sourced a property letter from the station owner and picked up a 1886 Greener shotgun and went Greening Australia for many years.You cant shoot a rifle in the air even a 22 LR could go a few k but shotties come in to their own at any thing that flies.I bought a 36 inch goose gun when I lived at the dairy farm and with 12G 36GR AAA 1298FPS thats 45 .20 calibre pellets in a tight pattern I spun the farmer out once when an overhead was a speck coming at us and I dropped it and it landed at our feet.Shotguns are fun
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Re: Hunting: What are shotguns for?

Post by bladeracer » 09 Aug 2020, 12:23 pm

I don't think anybody denies that shotguns are fun :-)
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Re: Hunting: What are shotguns for?

Post by mchughcb » 09 Aug 2020, 1:11 pm

Troyus wrote:Besides duck shooting.
We have an adler but just use it for a bit of fun. Would love to be able to hunt with it but I really have no idea how or what to hunt. I also have it in my mind that its only effective for 25M or so. Educate me please!


You want to know have fast that rabbit was running at 50m?

https://youtu.be/_P8x1qMkm6Q
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Re: Hunting: What are shotguns for?

Post by Bugman » 09 Aug 2020, 4:37 pm

Yep. I like my shotty. Lot of fun at shooting bunnies running in and out of blackberry bushes etc.
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Re: Hunting: What are shotguns for?

Post by bladeracer » 09 Aug 2020, 5:51 pm

duncan61 wrote:A few posters have claimed shotguns are not that good...


I enjoy them, but I generally don't like them for trying to kill live targets with birdshot and smaller buck. Some people are very skilled, and very aware of their limitations, they can effectively kill birds and rabbits very cleanly out to the ranges that they know they can do so. Unfortunately, not having to be very skillful is the very reason so many people opt for a gun over a rifle, if they could shoot well they wouldn't need the gun. Shooting goats at 100yds with buckshot for example, when you have a .222 and a .30-06 just sounds stupid to me, and unfair to the animal. At 100yds the pattern is probably larger than the entire animal, so you are hoping for at least one hit, against the odds, and highly unlikely to do more than cripple.
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Re: Hunting: What are shotguns for?

Post by bigpete » 09 Aug 2020, 7:13 pm

bladeracer wrote:
duncan61 wrote:A few posters have claimed shotguns are not that good...


I enjoy them, but I generally don't like them for trying to kill live targets with birdshot and smaller buck. Some people are very skilled, and very aware of their limitations, they can effectively kill birds and rabbits very cleanly out to the ranges that they know they can do so. Unfortunately, not having to be very skillful is the very reason so many people opt for a gun over a rifle, if they could shoot well they wouldn't need the gun. Shooting goats at 100yds with buckshot for example, when you have a .222 and a .30-06 just sounds stupid to me, and unfair to the animal. At 100yds the pattern is probably larger than the entire animal, so you are hoping for at least one hit, against the odds, and highly unlikely to do more than cripple.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxymVClJVhU


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Re: Hunting: What are shotguns for?

Post by bladeracer » 09 Aug 2020, 8:19 pm

To keep a bit of balance I should include some very good shooting, partridge with a .410.
https://youtu.be/BrqqIMtptQs
They don't seem at all bothered about people being down range though, might explain why he seems to only have one eye.
06:44, 07:05 are some of the many examples.
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Re: Hunting: What are shotguns for?

Post by duncan61 » 09 Aug 2020, 8:48 pm

Watched this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxymVClJVhU.That is not a shotgun it has a bullpup chassis and 18 inch barrel with god knows what choke.A 28 inch barrel with full choke would put every ball on target and I had a 5 shot Browning semiauto to use.I knew I would cop some flack for daring to share but not from you blade.We tested on beer bottles at 100 metres and OO/SG we had a 100m tape.The pattern out the browning was only about 2 foot wide every shot.its important to remember we are winding through scrub country and can see the windmill in the distance so we know we will come on them soon.A good driver knows to chase and then broadside to give the shotgun team a chance to get amonst them as they scatter.It was some thing we would go do after work at 5.00pm and be back at camp with fresh goat at 6.00pm not an all day hunt scene.One Sunday we went out for a field trip and I was curious about patterns and chokes I was brand new but knew the M60 had a beaten zone for suppresive fire where my Bren gun was pinpoint accurate.the pattern of OO/SG was similar to a M60 at 100 metres and I could crank 6 shells down range as fast as my finger moved.Had a lot of fun other tradesmen were begging to come along on our lets get weird times.Went gold mining for the first time at that camp.The boss got me at 2AM and we went digging in the ball mill itself.Found plenty of gold that night.3 ball mills were transported from somewhere else so they still had 2 foot of grinding in them
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Re: Hunting: What are shotguns for?

Post by boingk » 09 Aug 2020, 8:58 pm

Run a tight choke and number 4's or buckshot, you'll be fine for smaller critters. Throw SG's at anything larger, and if you're feeling like a big game hunting trip throw an improved cylinder choke on and get some slugs.

Fun fact - in the States a rifled 12 gauge 'Slug Gun' is often prohibited by state laws as many classify a firearm over 50 cal with a rifled barrel a 'destructive device'. A 12 gauge is .729 cal and most slugs are 7/8ths of an ounce or one whole ounce of lead.

The Adler will do you well. Happy hunting!
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Re: Hunting: What are shotguns for?

Post by No1Mk3 » 09 Aug 2020, 9:02 pm

You can't take too much away from a youtuber using a 16" barrel with God knows what choke. A 3" 00/SG Buck (15 pellets) in a 30+ barrel at full choke will land enough penetrating shot in a 15" circle at 100 yards to be lethal on most thin skinned game. The practical hunter chasing vertebrate prey will limit his 12g shot to 75 yards for certainty of kill and would, I hope, have already spent time at the range patterning his gun. Moreover, if after heavier game you use a slug, and then at 75 yards you can hunt anything, remembering that any slug drops 50% of it's energy by 100 yards. The shotgun is a capable and versatile tool within it's limitations and the tool of 1st choice for fast running and all flying game, and a rifle is unethical on Upland game and passing duck. A shotgun is also superior to a rifle for 5 yard pigs in Lignum, I say this having used a 44 Magnum Ruger semi-auto rifle, a 45 ACP Marlin semi-auto rifle and a SPAS 12, Cheers.
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Re: Hunting: What are shotguns for?

Post by bladeracer » 09 Aug 2020, 9:27 pm

duncan61 wrote:Watched this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxymVClJVhU.That is not a shotgun it has a bullpup chassis and 18 inch barrel with god knows what choke.A 28 inch barrel with full choke would put every ball on target and I had a 5 shot Browning semiauto to use.I knew I would cop some flack for daring to share but not from you blade.We tested on beer bottles at 100 metres and OO/SG we had a 100m tape.The pattern out the browning was only about 2 foot wide every shot.its important to remember we are winding through scrub country and can see the windmill in the distance so we know we will come on them soon.A good driver knows to chase and then broadside to give the shotgun team a chance to get amonst them as they scatter.It was some thing we would go do after work at 5.00pm and be back at camp with fresh goat at 6.00pm not an all day hunt scene.One Sunday we went out for a field trip and I was curious about patterns and chokes I was brand new but knew the M60 had a beaten zone for suppresive fire where my Bren gun was pinpoint accurate.the pattern of OO/SG was similar to a M60 at 100 metres and I could crank 6 shells down range as fast as my finger moved.Had a lot of fun other tradesmen were begging to come along on our lets get weird times.Went gold mining for the first time at that camp.The boss got me at 2AM and we went digging in the ball mill itself.Found plenty of gold that night.3 ball mills were transported from somewhere else so they still had 2 foot of grinding in them


That is not a bullpup, it's just a Saiga12 :-)
Barrel is either 17" or 23".
What does "A 28 inch barrel with full choke would put every ball on target" mean? Shotguns are specifically designed not to put all the balls in the same place.
Regardless of whether the pattern was 2ft at 100m or not (I doubt it though), I still consider it stupid to use buckshot at 100m when you had two rifles readily to hand. About 40yds is considered a fair range for deer with loads designed for deer (12 or 15 pellet) with full chokes, the US White-Tail are probably goat-size for us. Even if you could keep the whole pattern on your target at 100yds, you are really losing penetration out there.
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Re: Hunting: What are shotguns for?

Post by bladeracer » 09 Aug 2020, 9:30 pm

No1Mk3 wrote:...a rifle is unethical on Upland game and passing duck...


I would say non-traditional rather than unethical, a headshot from a rifle will kill a duck cleaner than a load of birdshot throughout its body.
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Re: Hunting: What are shotguns for?

Post by mchughcb » 09 Aug 2020, 9:46 pm

bladeracer wrote:
No1Mk3 wrote:...a rifle is unethical on Upland game and passing duck...


I would say non-traditional rather than unethical, a headshot from a rifle will kill a duck cleaner than a load of birdshot throughout its body.


You won't shoot 5 ducks with one shot though.
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Re: Hunting: What are shotguns for?

Post by bladeracer » 09 Aug 2020, 9:50 pm

mchughcb wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
No1Mk3 wrote:...a rifle is unethical on Upland game and passing duck...


I would say non-traditional rather than unethical, a headshot from a rifle will kill a duck cleaner than a load of birdshot throughout its body.


You won't shoot 5 ducks with one shot though.


I thought targeting multiple birds was definitely unethical.
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Re: Hunting: What are shotguns for?

Post by duncan61 » 09 Aug 2020, 9:56 pm

We are losing it a bit blade.by on target I meant the torso in the film clip.I would love to have a go with a marlin goose gun at 100 off a rest or sitting position and it would be cut in half by 5 shots of OO/SG.I get where you are coming from its all good
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Re: Hunting: What are shotguns for?

Post by mchughcb » 09 Aug 2020, 10:38 pm

bladeracer wrote:
mchughcb wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
No1Mk3 wrote:...a rifle is unethical on Upland game and passing duck...


I would say non-traditional rather than unethical, a headshot from a rifle will kill a duck cleaner than a load of birdshot throughout its body.


You won't shoot 5 ducks with one shot though.


I thought targeting multiple birds was definitely unethical.


Well that depends where you are hunting. Just like is it ethical to shoot a duck in the head on the water. Is that legal let alone ethical, let alone safe.
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Re: Hunting: What are shotguns for?

Post by bladeracer » 09 Aug 2020, 10:56 pm

mchughcb wrote:Well that depends where you are hunting. Just like is it ethical to shoot a duck in the head on the water. Is that legal let alone ethical, let alone safe.


You were talking about ducks.
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Ethical? Yes, ethical hunting respects the animal so you take steps to ensure an immediate death.
Legal? Definitely not.
Safe? Depends on the situation, as it does anytime you fire a round in anything. Swatter loads are regularly used for killing wounded ducks on the water.
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Re: Hunting: What are shotguns for?

Post by mchughcb » 09 Aug 2020, 11:28 pm

You were talking about a rifle.
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Re: Hunting: What are shotguns for?

Post by bladeracer » 09 Aug 2020, 11:33 pm

mchughcb wrote:You were talking about a rifle.


I'm still talking about a rifle, that's why it's illegal to headshoot a duck, whether on water or not. Are you suggesting that rifles can never be fired into water because it's unsafe?
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Re: Hunting: What are shotguns for?

Post by TassieTiger » 10 Aug 2020, 9:06 am

And Buddha says - "if you have the option of being right or kind, choose kind" lol.

I've shot more wallaby with a 12g than I have a rifle - for close / tight scrub, numerous trees, etc etc - they are great.
As someone else has posted above - 12G 36GR AAA 1298FPS that's 45 x .20 calibre pellets in a tight pattern, ever increasing...and bottom line is - farmers love them. Very little chance of ricochet or stray bullets hitting anything.
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