First shotgun. are Turkish guns good?

Double barrel, side by side, over-under, semi-automatic, straight-pull and lever action shotguns.

First shotgun. are Turkish guns good?

Post by A.Swan » 05 Nov 2020, 9:54 pm

Gday fellas.
Hope everyone is doing well.
I am currently in the market for a O/U, this will be my first gun and the plan is to go bust some clays around twice per month.
I don't want to say that I am a tight ass, but don't want to spend a huge amount if I don't have to.
So this brings me to the (i am guessing age old) question: are the Turkish guns (Akkar and ATA) good?
Hoping to get some feedback from Akkar or ATA owners/users around the quality and performance of these.
There are a lot of shops that are happy to sell me Akkar churchills or ATA 686s, but almost all of them say to rather buy the Browning Citori if I can afford.
Currently my budget is around $1500, but not sure if I should hold off and rather get the $2000 Citori (or the Miroku Mk70 for around $1800)
Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated
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Re: First shotgun. are Turkish guns good?

Post by CrackThump » 06 Nov 2020, 6:21 pm

If youre seriously gonna commit twice a month to claybusting.. save up and get something decent.. screw the bargain bin..

Arent Beretta Silver Pidgeons around the 2k mark.?
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Re: First shotgun. are Turkish guns good?

Post by TassieTiger » 06 Nov 2020, 6:32 pm

I bought a miroku as first clay gun, 2 months later, it was...loose and...I got $300 for it after buying it for 1800.
I bought an ATA...5 year warranty, select barrel/trig, 5 chokes and tool, fired ejector (shoot one barrel, will only eject fired), very well put together (cross hashed on metal to hold oil), hard case etc...balanced, points fast...
Ive shot some very expensive 12g - they feel nice, look nice, but ultimately they do nothing better for $15-$20k.
Downsides.
Barrel blueing is a little thin and scratches.
The timber foreend is not always made from same timber as stock and as a result fit is not perfect.
Umm...
For the $$$, features and warranty, it’s a good thing.
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Re: First shotgun. are Turkish guns good?

Post by Ziege » 06 Nov 2020, 6:40 pm

ugh ya can bust clays with literally anything, got a cupboard full of medals and trophies that were all claimed using an old under/over baikal.
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Re: First shotgun. are Turkish guns good?

Post by LawrenceA » 06 Nov 2020, 7:19 pm

Go to the gun club.
They will have club guns.
Hold a few.
They all feel pretty different.
If you get to shoot a few even better.
Buy what fit/works for you.
Second hand Winchesters and Mirokus turn up pretty often and can be very well priced.

Might I suggest you buy a second hand Trap gun and see if they whole thing is fr you first.
Note that a trap gun shoots differently than a field or skeet gun. They shoot higher.
This does not mean you cannot use a field gun. It just means that many times you will shoot when the clay cannot be seen.
At the end of the day if you enjoy it that is great. May see you around. If not then at least you had a go.
I found Trap and especially skeet has helped heaps for shooting pigs on the run.

Good luck
One well placed shot is all it takes.
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Re: First shotgun. are Turkish guns good?

Post by av1 » 06 Nov 2020, 8:43 pm

TassieTiger wrote:I bought a miroku as first clay gun, 2 months later, it was...loose and...I got $300 for it after buying it for 1800.
I bought an ATA...5 year warranty, select barrel/trig, 5 chokes and tool, fired ejector (shoot one barrel, will only eject fired), very well put together (cross hashed on metal to hold oil), hard case etc...balanced, points fast...
Ive shot some very expensive 12g - they feel nice, look nice, but ultimately they do nothing better for $15-$20k.
Downsides.
Barrel blueing is a little thin and scratches.
The timber foreend is not always made from same timber as stock and as a result fit is not perfect.
Umm...
For the $$$, features and warranty, it’s a good thing.
Was the Miroku under the five year warranty and if so why did you not receive a refund or a new gun?
My Miroku MK70 is six years old and fired thousands of rounds and is still tight, so what caused your gun to be loose and only worth $300 after only two months of use.
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Re: First shotgun. are Turkish guns good?

Post by TassieTiger » 07 Nov 2020, 9:25 am

av1 wrote:
TassieTiger wrote:I bought a miroku as first clay gun, 2 months later, it was...loose and...I got $300 for it after buying it for 1800.
I bought an ATA...5 year warranty, select barrel/trig, 5 chokes and tool, fired ejector (shoot one barrel, will only eject fired), very well put together (cross hashed on metal to hold oil), hard case etc...balanced, points fast...
Ive shot some very expensive 12g - they feel nice, look nice, but ultimately they do nothing better for $15-$20k.
Downsides.
Barrel blueing is a little thin and scratches.
The timber foreend is not always made from same timber as stock and as a result fit is not perfect.
Umm...
For the $$$, features and warranty, it’s a good thing.
Was the Miroku under the five year warranty and if so why did you not receive a refund or a new gun?
My Miroku MK70 is six years old and fired thousands of rounds and is still tight, so what caused your gun to be loose and only worth $300 after only two months of use.


Mine was a second hand - mk70 also - wasn’t in great condition when I bought it, BUT action was tight when purchased. I wasn’t worried about timber marks back then.
Maybe 1000 shells in, it was not locking up without a really hard snap and the stock had movement side to side a couple mm. When I took it back to shop they accused me of neglect and advised no warranty on sh firearms. It was also much heavier than ata but - recoil felt similar...
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
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Re: First shotgun. are Turkish guns good?

Post by mchughcb » 07 Nov 2020, 10:37 am

Second hand silver pigeon 30" barrels for under $2000 and never look back.
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Re: First shotgun. are Turkish guns good?

Post by linkoln » 07 Nov 2020, 11:50 am

I don't have any personal experience with them but one of my next guns will be a Akkar Churchill 12g XM12 20" Ejector Synthetic. I've seen people in the US claim it is good and even a lot of Europeans like Germans who are known for quality manufacturing say it is a good U/O.
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Re: First shotgun. are Turkish guns good?

Post by Ziege » 07 Nov 2020, 1:14 pm

go benelli supersport semi auto
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Re: First shotgun. are Turkish guns good?

Post by Farmerpete » 07 Nov 2020, 4:14 pm

Old Turkish guns are good new ones can be hit and miss,
My advice get an older skb Japanese made they used to contract for Ithaca and rebadged them for the us and sold them as an skb in oz
Skb moved to Turkey after Japan banned all manufacture of guns and became cheap crud, avoid their new ones
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Re: First shotgun. are Turkish guns good?

Post by mchughcb » 07 Nov 2020, 7:13 pm

I have two turkish shotguns. Both 20g. Here is my side by side. It love it. Its a proper little game gun.

https://youtu.be/B_PHtd8azVg
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Re: First shotgun. are Turkish guns good?

Post by boingk » 08 Nov 2020, 8:17 pm

linkoln wrote:I don't have any personal experience with them but one of my next guns will be a Akkar Churchill 12g XM12 20" Ejector Synthetic.


I've used one of these and it wasn't too bad. It felt fine, swung well (hell its only 20" barrels) and they're definitely priced well. Its a cheap way to get into the sport, tats for sure.

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Re: First shotgun. are Turkish guns good?

Post by GojiraSteve » 09 Nov 2020, 7:04 am

A.Swan I was in the same position as you a couple of months ago (with the addition of being a left hander so second hand options were VERY limited). In the end it came down to the ATA 686s, Miroku Mk38, and Akkar Churchill all for under $2k (I had pegged the budget at $1500 too but in the end decided I could stretch if there was a compelling argument. Both the ATA and the Miroku were straight stocked while the Akkar was available cast on so thats the way I went. About 1000 rounds in and I couldn't be happier.

Pros: In addition to all the stuff youd already know from the marketing (5 chokes, chrome barrels etc) It came in well under the original budget, is well regulated, well finished for what it is, better set up for a lefty than any of the other options, and if anything falls off it in the next 5 years its covered by warranty.

Cons: the forend wood is a bugger to get off, but whatever matte coating they put on the barrels seems to be applied to the catch too so I think that will wear off/ smooth out with time. Choke threads are a little gritty, doesn't affect function but its a bit like nails on a chalkboard screwing them in and feeling something scraping in there. No amount of brushing/grease seems to have fixed it. Finally the comb is a little high. Didn't seem to be when I mounted it in the shop but after using it for a few weeks I'm starting to think shaving a few mm off would be a good thing.

That last point is probably why I'm most happy with the decision. As my first shotgun I didn't have any real experience in what to look for, just what the articles/forums/youtube videos tell you a well fitted gun should feel like. So in the shop I was unconsciously altering my mount to fit the shotgun, not much, but enough that it masked a couple of fit issues well enough that even the gunshop bloke didn't spot them. next time around, when I'll be looking to drop some real coin on a "nice" gun I'll be better prepared to get something perfect.

Also, just in regards to the ATA I have seen a few posts around the place where folks have had repeated double discharges. Enough that it seems to me more of a mechanical/design issue than a case of improper maintenance. The Akkars have inertia triggers rather than mechanical, so this should be less of an issue with them. Honestly I would have preferred mech triggers but maybe on a cheap gun the more foolproof design is the better one.
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Re: First shotgun. are Turkish guns good?

Post by TassieTiger » 09 Nov 2020, 7:16 am

Good advice above.
I started reading re double discharge and I admit to having a laugh out loud moment.
Imagine being on the line and aiming at one and you knew you missed but the clay blew up anyway ? You’d probably get away with it - what the hell was that ? What? That boom ? I dunno, overcharge maybe, quickly replace both cartridges lol.
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
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Re: First shotgun. are Turkish guns good?

Post by GojiraSteve » 09 Nov 2020, 8:57 am

TassieTiger wrote:Good advice above.
I started reading re double discharge and I admit to having a laugh out loud moment.
Imagine being on the line and aiming at one and you knew you missed but the clay blew up anyway ? You’d probably get away with it - what the hell was that ? What? That boom ? I dunno, overcharge maybe, quickly replace both cartridges lol.


Haha, I reckon the fact that you started spitting out fillings might be a bit of a giveaway. :lol:
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Re: First shotgun. are Turkish guns good?

Post by A.Swan » 09 Nov 2020, 11:39 am

I would like to thank everyone for taking the time to respond, some answers had real good information, especially TassieTiger and GojiraSteve.
GojiraSteve, it seems i am in exactly the situation you were in, even down to the $1500 budget.
Between the ATA and the Akkar i would say that honestly i prefer the Akkar, purely based on looks and my limited research, but it is good to hear from someone that is a genuinely satisfied customer.
I guess it is time to head down to the shop, thanks again.
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Re: First shotgun. are Turkish guns good?

Post by mchughcb » 09 Nov 2020, 4:41 pm

Huglu and Armed are not bad and you should have a look at them as well.
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Re: First shotgun. are Turkish guns good?

Post by Gadge » 10 Nov 2020, 3:40 pm

Farmerpete wrote:Old Turkish guns are good new ones can be hit and miss,
My advice get an older skb Japanese made they used to contract for Ithaca and rebadged them for the us and sold them as an skb in oz
Skb moved to Turkey after Japan banned all manufacture of guns and became cheap crud, avoid their new ones
Banned manufacture? Ummm, no. Miroku/Browning being the major ongoing Japanese maker, for the global market...

Just that JapPol decided to make it incredibly hard to obtain and keep any kind of firearm licence, which pretty much put an end to the local 'new firearm' market. And hence the closure of most of the Japanese firearm manufacturers.

There are now big problems with exploding deer populations in some regions of Japan, as older hunters leave the sport, and are not replaced.
BTW, most Japanese deer are hunted with shotguns, as getting a centrefire rifle licence there, has a long term shottie licence prerequisite, before you can even apply.

There's a thread over on the Accurate Reloading forums, that goes into a lot of detail of the experiences of a Japanese-speaking and writing US expat permanent resident, of getting a Japanese shotgun hunting licence.

Citizenship or permanent residency is a requirement [with a single exception; US armed forces personnel stationed in Japan, and they can apply in English], LOTS of hoops to jump through, and the civilian licensing paperwork is all in Japanese only...

A lot of these 'surrendered' guns ended up being sold out of Japan via the Japanese dealers; Gun City in NZ has had some very tasty examples of high grade ex-Japan shotguns in the past few years.
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Post by Farmerpete » 10 Nov 2020, 5:32 pm

Ok so they didn't "ban" manufacturing they just banned exporting them. They reversed the decision in 2014 but how many companies stayed in business after that decision was made.
It's the same as Bidens plan for gun control in the USA he's not planning on banning them he's planning on taxing them so much the average person couldn't afford to buy one.
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Post by Mattraff » 11 Nov 2020, 1:57 pm

mchughcb wrote:I have two turkish shotguns. Both 20g. Here is my side by side. It love it. Its a proper little game gun.


I have one of these in 12g with fixed chokes. I bought it because it was just too nice to leave in the shop. It was only $1180 and is finished to a standard that the big names would ask many thousand for. It is a beautiful straight stocked true English game gun.
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Re: First shotgun. are Turkish guns good?

Post by Mattraff » 11 Nov 2020, 2:01 pm

Farmerpete wrote:Ok so they didn't "ban" manufacturing they just banned exporting them. They reversed the decision in 2014 but how many companies stayed in business after that decision was made.
It's the same as Bidens plan for gun control in the USA he's not planning on banning them he's planning on taxing them so much the average person couldn't afford to buy one.


I don't believe they ever stoped exporting firearms we have always had Miroku available and Howa which was called CMC Australian Mountaineer in the early days. There have also been various other Japanese guns sold here over the years.
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Re: First shotgun. are Turkish guns good?

Post by Mattraff » 11 Nov 2020, 2:16 pm

Some Turkish guns are good and others rubbish. Most are made to a cost and it shows but some are much better than their price suggests. The Churchill and ATA are shallow receiver guns especially the ATA which is a close copy of the Beretta 686 series. Miroku / Browning guns have a very deep receiver due to their action design. You will prefer one of these designs over the other. Before the influx of all these cheap guns there wasn't much choice for the average shooter and you either shot a Beretta or a Browning / Miroku. There were other brands but they were either extremely expensive or didn't offer competition style guns. If you really plan on getting into the sportvsave a little more and buy a gun that will last and is easily serviced in the future. The Miroku is built like a tank and will take many thousands of rounds before any attention to the lock up is required. Beretta guns are built more like sports cars but are still robust. I personally shoot a Beretta and have 2 X Trap models. My 682 is 30 years old and was 10 years old when I bought it but was in nearer new condition. I have put in excess of 50,000 rounds through it and the action is still tight. It has always been treated with care and respect and cleaned after every outing.
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Re: First shotgun. are Turkish guns good?

Post by womble » 16 Nov 2020, 2:20 am

I think they're good as in value for money.
Price of a week's groceries nowadays.
I have one Turkish made shotgun, seems well enough made to me. Never had a problem. Fires and ejects every time without fail.
Well finished. The wood used is a bit average, but does the job.
I only use it for slugs and I've put a lot through it.
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Re: First shotgun. are Turkish guns good?

Post by marksman » 16 Nov 2020, 9:50 pm

nice tacticool self defence shotty womble ;)
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Re: First shotgun. are Turkish guns good?

Post by womble » 17 Nov 2020, 3:46 am

Well it’s a fun gun and I’m not hurting anyone. Cost me 400 bucks.
It’s kinda like having a miniature canon. I could probably kill a building with it.
It has defended me well against some goats last year with kelpie the cabin boy providing a diversion tactic.
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Re: First shotgun. are Turkish guns good?

Post by marksman » 17 Nov 2020, 8:30 am

its a bit overkill for some goats, in fact probably anything but buff in the neck with only using slugs

but it's a perfect setup for home defence :thumbsup:
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Re: First shotgun. are Turkish guns good?

Post by av1 » 17 Nov 2020, 8:24 pm

marksman wrote:its a bit overkill for some goats, in fact probably anything but buff in the neck with only using slugs

but it's a perfect setup for home defence :thumbsup:


“but it's a perfect setup for home defence”. Let us see how that works.

Your firearm is in the safe and your property is being broken into. You shout out to the criminals to hold off for a while as you need to get your safe keys and remove your firearm from the safe and obtain your cleaning equipment as the oil needs to be removed from the rifle or shotgun barrel and that you also need to gain excess to the ammo and perhaps the rifle bolt that is locked up separate to the firearm.

During this time being a super cool dude you are able to save the day and use or threaten to use the firearm on the criminals.

Be aware that people that hate firearm owners are always looking for any reason to attack firearm owners, please do not give them an excuse to enforce more restrictions on us. I do not like it, but firearms are frowned upon by the powers that be when used in a home defence situation.
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Re: First shotgun. are Turkish guns good?

Post by marksman » 17 Nov 2020, 9:36 pm

hmmm l see you have a lot of experience avy :thumbsup: and a keen eye ;) as well as a very good understanding of the gun laws :huh:

so tell me avy what sport or hunting category does a tacticooooool break open shotgun that is only used with slugs belong to then :wtf:

ummmmm and its black with a torch rail so it must be a weapon :sarcasm:

and can you explain the difference between a weapon and a firearm for me ;)

just taking the piss avy
but mate some of us can see what something is actually meant for and that shotgun is meant for home defence not sport shooting or hunting
slugs are a pretty dangerous thing in the field as well because they take a hell of a lot to slow down let alone stop
but hey your story made you feel better, right :drinks:
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Re: First shotgun. are Turkish guns good?

Post by mchughcb » 17 Nov 2020, 10:22 pm

av1 wrote:
marksman wrote:its a bit overkill for some goats, in fact probably anything but buff in the neck with only using slugs

but it's a perfect setup for home defence :thumbsup:


“but it's a perfect setup for home defence”. Let us see how that works.

Your firearm is in the safe and your property is being broken into. You shout out to the criminals to hold off for a while as you need to get your safe keys and remove your firearm from the safe and obtain your cleaning equipment as the oil needs to be removed from the rifle or shotgun barrel and that you also need to gain excess to the ammo and perhaps the rifle bolt that is locked up separate to the firearm.

During this time being a super cool dude you are able to save the day and use or threaten to use the firearm on the criminals.

Be aware that people that hate firearm owners are always looking for any reason to attack firearm owners, please do not give them an excuse to enforce more restrictions on us. I do not like it, but firearms are frowned upon by the powers that be when used in a home defence situation.


Ole tuppance Moran was blasted just up the road. Then didak was with hudson letting off a handgun on the adjoining street at 2am just before he shot two people in the CBD killing one of them trying to save his girlfriend stripper who was getting beaten to death then I had a car load of african's let off a couple of several rounds from a 22LR because they were pissed about some drug deal at the end of the road.

Yes I'm sure the powers that be would front upon something, like charging people $200 for not wearing a mask or $1600 for being outside their 5km radius for more than one hour after curfew. FFS mate get a grip.

Really is the wild wild west out there in inner city melbourne.
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