#9 for Foxes?

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Re: #9 for Foxes?

Post by JohnV » 24 Jan 2021, 6:17 am

mchughcb wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:Personally I haven't had any run with 2s. But then only shot perhaps a 20 with a 12g. Shot a few with 22lr, and had a couple keep going with a confident shot. So bought a 223 as I was getting to enjoy whistling. None have run since. But I pass up risky shots.


For an old bloke 20 foxes with a shotgun seems quite a lot. Is that like you averaged one fox every 2 years for 40 years?

Sitting and whistling it's a good haul but not average nowadays but still possible in a good spot . Spotlighting it's quite doable at times I once took 36 in two nights and always got around a dozen or so each trip even at the worst times .
Certain places have more foxes than others . Find a place in the middle of sheep country adjacent to a large area of bush and go at lambing time , foxes come to you from all over . Another good time is the end of winter when foxes are real hungry , they come fast to the whistle to try and beat the others .
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Re: #9 for Foxes?

Post by Oldbloke » 24 Jan 2021, 7:21 am

The 20 (give or take) is over a fair few outings some years ago.
The point is,,,2s are suitable
IMO the use of 9s on foxes is an exceptionally poor choice. Particularly at that range. Ethical hunters should at all times be trying to achieve a quick and humane kill. (no matter what species) Using appropriate
ammunition within range is an important part of that.
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Re: #9 for Foxes?

Post by JohnV » 24 Jan 2021, 7:42 am

# 9 shot is just not suitable for foxes over the general range of a shotgun as Oldbloke says .
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Re: #9 for Foxes?

Post by LawrenceA » 24 Jan 2021, 8:32 am

Youtube shows a large boar being dropped with a 22 subsonic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4J7kgpIaGeI
This does not make the 22 a pig gun.

There is also a deer dropping dead after being missed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6P3uwl5HzzQ
This does not make missing an effective strategy when hunting.

The proliferation of 7mm Mausers in Africa has lead to the reality that this calibre has taken more Elephant and dangerous game than any other. But is not anywhere even close to the minimum legal calibre for taking Dangerous game which is generally 375H&H.

Youtube even has a man heads up an elephants butt! Doesn't mean you should do it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnHi3N_ ... ickyMudher

I believe Oldblokes argument is that unless #9's will consistently kill foxes at 60m then there use will lead to a more game injured than killed outright. As such the use of 9's at 60m is inhumane and unethical and should not be encouraged or practiced.
There may be a small number a case on Youtube that states, not proves, that number 9's killed a fox at 60 yards but that does not make it the norm or acceptable by ethical hunters.

I shoot shotguns regularly and hunt more than most. I am troubled by the use of a shotgun with an optic that obviously has magnification and a crosshair with night vision thrown in with range finding.
When one considers that a shotgun is designed to be used on moving game and generally the hunter is not looking at the sights then this set up is completely wrong. I am unsure why someone would put such a device on a shotty. It would throw the whole gun off with all that weight on top.

A rifle, on the other hand, is generally used for shooting stationary targets with bullet placement being important. An optic with magnification and crosshair suits these needs.
In my humble opinion the footage could just as easily show a 223 being used or if it is a smoothbore then not one intended for use with shot but solids.
One well placed shot is all it takes.
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Re: #9 for Foxes?

Post by JohnV » 24 Jan 2021, 8:55 am

If anyone relies on youtube alone for it's firearm information , your going to be led astray most of the time .
Some computer dork that bought his gun last year but knows how to upload a video knows nothing compared to some people who have a lifetime of experience and knowledge . When it comes to knowledge of how to do something right , I will bet on the old guy or Gal every time . Remember the first survivor series that had to solve challenges well the old people wiped the floor with the young studs when it came to thinking solutions . That's what experience does for you . They dumped the older people after that because it made the trendy young stars look stupid .
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Re: #9 for Foxes?

Post by Oldbloke » 24 Jan 2021, 10:31 am

LawrenceA wrote:

Youtube even has a man heads up an elephants butt! Doesn't mean you should do it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnHi3N_ ... ickyMudher


Lol
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Re: #9 for Foxes?

Post by Ziege » 24 Jan 2021, 2:21 pm

love all the uni professors that come out on these threads doing lectures on ethics, always the same garb repeated endlessly. not saying youre wrong, its just funny how many people feel the need to repeat the exact same point 200 times over every time. lol
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Re: #9 for Foxes?

Post by animalpest » 24 Jan 2021, 5:26 pm

Suggesting the use #9 on foxes makes me consider more people need the schooling on animal ethics.
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Re: #9 for Foxes?

Post by mchughcb » 24 Jan 2021, 5:32 pm

animalpest wrote:Suggesting the use #9 on foxes makes me consider more people need the schooling on animal ethics.


Have you used TSS before? Just asking as a non pro to a pro.
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Re: #9 for Foxes?

Post by Ziege » 24 Jan 2021, 5:55 pm

animalpest wrote:Suggesting the use #9 on foxes makes me consider more people need the schooling on animal ethics.



yes but 96 people in one thread? lol its like they cant see that someone else posted it cos theyre so triggered.
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Re: #9 for Foxes?

Post by mchughcb » 24 Jan 2021, 6:31 pm

Ziege wrote:love all the uni professors that come out on these threads doing lectures on ethics, always the same garb repeated endlessly. not saying youre wrong, its just funny how many people feel the need to repeat the exact same point 200 times over every time. lol


My experience is the same as this guys. Lead #6 Longbear XR bounces off steel flashing at 40 yards with not a very good pattern.

TSS #9 great pattern and every pellet went straight through. Difference is I test penetration and patterns at 36m, 50m and 70m.

https://youtu.be/D9v2OXEtg2w
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Re: #9 for Foxes?

Post by mchughcb » 24 Jan 2021, 6:42 pm

86 yards with #8.5?

What are these guys thinking?

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Re: #9 for Foxes?

Post by Blr243 » 24 Jan 2021, 8:59 pm

I’m fifty one and I have never shot a fox with a shotgun. Is this sad ? I just watched the video posted by McHugh ... I have never seen those splatter reactive targets by tru glo before. I had no idea that existed. How long they been around?
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Re: #9 for Foxes?

Post by mchughcb » 24 Jan 2021, 10:30 pm

Quite some time now. The Turkey target reactive ones are good as lethal shots come up a different color to non lethal shots.
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Re: #9 for Foxes?

Post by animalpest » 25 Jan 2021, 10:13 am

Yes I have used TSS and for some circumstances they are worth using.

Either way, I wont use small shot on foxes and not going to try.

I have at least 1000 birds to shoot this week and wont be using TSS
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Re: #9 for Foxes?

Post by mchughcb » 25 Jan 2021, 11:08 am

What circumstances are they worth using in a professional capacity?
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Re: #9 for Foxes?

Post by niteowl » 25 Jan 2021, 11:24 am

animalpest wrote:Yes I have used TSS and for some circumstances they are worth using.

Either way, I wont use small shot on foxes and not going to try.

I have at least 1000 birds to shoot this week and wont be using TSS

You sound like a busy boy. I know a professional pest management operator / trainer down this way that has a disregard for the law when handling and laying 1080.
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Re: #9 for Foxes?

Post by animalpest » 25 Jan 2021, 3:18 pm

When you want to burn money using small shot for a bit more punch.

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Re: #9 for Foxes?

Post by Oldbloke » 25 Jan 2021, 11:12 pm

Why would you put a NV scope on a shot gun? Normally a rifle right?
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Re: #9 for Foxes?

Post by mchughcb » 26 Jan 2021, 12:53 pm

LawrenceA wrote:I shoot shotguns regularly and hunt more than most. I am troubled by the use of a shotgun with an optic that obviously has magnification and a crosshair with night vision thrown in with range finding.
When one considers that a shotgun is designed to be used on moving game and generally the hunter is not looking at the sights then this set up is completely wrong. I am unsure why someone would put such a device on a shotty. It would throw the whole gun off with all that weight on top.


Because they were designed for it. I hunt with my drillings more than most and I'm troubled that you don't understand what one is, or what they are capable of.

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Re: #9 for Foxes?

Post by mchughcb » 26 Jan 2021, 12:57 pm

LawrenceA wrote:I shoot shotguns regularly and hunt more than most. I am troubled by the use of a shotgun with an optic that obviously has magnification and a crosshair with night vision thrown in with range finding.
When one considers that a shotgun is designed to be used on moving game and generally the hunter is not looking at the sights then this set up is completely wrong. I am unsure why someone would put such a device on a shotty. It would throw the whole gun off with all that weight on top.

A rifle, on the other hand, is generally used for shooting stationary targets with bullet placement being important. An optic with magnification and crosshair suits these needs.
In my humble opinion the footage could just as easily show a 223 being used or if it is a smoothbore then not one intended for use with shot but solids.


I hunt with combination guns more than most and I'm troubled that you don't understand not only can you hit flying targets wiht the shotgun barrel with a scope you can also shoot sub moa with the rifle barrel at 200m.

https://youtu.be/bfyfLvp6QqA
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Re: #9 for Foxes?

Post by Oldbloke » 26 Jan 2021, 3:57 pm

"combination gun" that explains it.

Puzzled why your troubled though. Personally I would never fit a scope to a shotty. Detracts from the handling and potential speed of use IMO.
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Re: #9 for Foxes?

Post by LawrenceA » 26 Jan 2021, 8:24 pm

I hunt with combination guns more than most and I'm troubled that you don't understand not only can you hit flying targets wiht the shotgun barrel with a scope you can also shoot sub moa with the rifle barrel at 200m.

https://youtu.be/bfyfLvp6QqA[/quote]
A combination gun makes sense. There was no mention of a combination gun in the original Youtube clip.

I struggle using much magnification on rifles when after running game.
What power scope do you use on your combination gun for the shotty?
One well placed shot is all it takes.
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Re: #9 for Foxes?

Post by mchughcb » 26 Jan 2021, 9:19 pm

I do make mention in the title of the clip. Blaser BD14 is a bockdrilling. Look it up. I have a few other multi barrel guns and a selection of low variable scopes.1.5-6x42, 1.25-4x24, 1-5x24. 1.5-6x36.
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Re: #9 for Foxes?

Post by Oldbloke » 26 Jan 2021, 9:26 pm

I searched and the Blaser BD14 is a o/u combination. Just the same, IMO a scope on any shotty would defeat the purpose of having a shotty. Would be less lively and slow to use on fast moving game.

Open sights, peep or reflex, all giving a much wider field of view and not affecting the weight or balance of the gun would make more sense. And still providing a usefull sight for the rifle.

Of course it is about compromise, that's what a combo is. Although a versatile one.

But I guess your the xspert.

Edit: just saw your post. Might get away with a 1.5-5. But not my choice.
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Re: #9 for Foxes?

Post by LawrenceA » 26 Jan 2021, 9:47 pm

Oldbloke wrote:I searched and the Blaser BD14 is a o/u combination. Just the same, IMO a scope on any shotty would defeat the purpose of having a shotty. Would be less lively and slow to use on fast moving game.

Open sights, peep or reflex, all giving a much wider field of view and not affecting the weight or balance of the gun would make more sense. And still providing a usefull sight for the rifle.

Of course it is about compromise, that's what a combo is. Although a versatile one.

But I guess your the xspert.


A combination gun is a compromise as you say. If you use it more at sitting targets a scope makes sense I suppose.
Personally I have never tried a scope on a shotty. I dont look at the sight when shooting one so am struggling with how it would work with a scope. But it must.
Yes the feel would be weird but with practice???????????
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Re: #9 for Foxes?

Post by mchughcb » 26 Jan 2021, 9:55 pm

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Re: #9 for Foxes?

Post by mchughcb » 26 Jan 2021, 10:01 pm

LawrenceA wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:I searched and the Blaser BD14 is a o/u combination. Just the same, IMO a scope on any shotty would defeat the purpose of having a shotty. Would be less lively and slow to use on fast moving game.

Open sights, peep or reflex, all giving a much wider field of view and not affecting the weight or balance of the gun would make more sense. And still providing a usefull sight for the rifle.

Of course it is about compromise, that's what a combo is. Although a versatile one.

But I guess your the xspert.


A combination gun is a compromise as you say. If you use it more at sitting targets a scope makes sense I suppose.
Personally I have never tried a scope on a shotty. I dont look at the sight when shooting one so am struggling with how it would work with a scope. But it must.
Yes the feel would be weird but with practice???????????


I can also shoot shotgun only with a bead but I'm no pro or expert. But i am certainly learning about stuff about shotguns on this thread.

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Re: #9 for Foxes?

Post by Oldbloke » 27 Jan 2021, 8:00 pm

mchughcb wrote:Neither is your analogy but you brought it up.


Yep, thought so. It was an analogy.
Well, bugger me, suddenly you tried to make if fact on another thread. So its not just when shooting foxes where you lack ethics.
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Re: #9 for Foxes?

Post by mchughcb » 27 Jan 2021, 8:10 pm

Oldbloke wrote:
mchughcb wrote:Neither is your analogy but you brought it up.


Yep, thought so. It was an analogy.
Well, bugger me, suddenly you tried to make if fact on another thread. So its not just when shooting foxes where you lack ethics.


An analogy can be factual. But I guess what you are confirming you just made that story up. Okay, I thought you were basing that story on your experience about what it is like to shoot a sambar with a 22LR at 20m with a night vision where in reality you have no experience at all on that or using tungsten special shot but decided to make it an analogy for what purpose I have no idea.
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