Stoeger M3K, Adler B-220AW, Sulun TAC-12

[Traditionalist]

Would much appreciate any input or insight in regards to shotguns. So far I'm considering the Stoeger M3K, Adler B-220AW, Sulun TAC-12 (all of which are straight pull). The Adler B-220AW seems to have a good rep for reliability and general functionality, the Stoeger M3K a little less so though most issues appear to be with the semi-auto version, The Sulun reviews seem decent also. I'm wanting it as a general tactical/ hunting tool (zombie apocalypse and all that). I'm leaning away from the pistol grip models though the Sulun is in there as a contender.

Open to other suggestions too... if spending a little more (up to 2k or so) was going to get me into something closer to the reliability of a Benelli M3 then I'd consider that too. Unfortunately the semi-auto's aren't for a mere Cat A/B holder like myself.

Total shotgun neophyte here... any input greatly appreciated.

[InisBineest]

I can't help, but I love that your tag is "Traditionalist" and that your looking for a tactical shotgun:) Makes me smile:D

Actually, maybe I can help, have you looked at SHS shotguns? I've run my mates SHS and it's a solid bit of kit. A bit beefier and the bolt handle and receiver than some of the others I've looked at, but it runs well (the one I've shot)

[boingk]

If you're after something cheap that works the Adler definitely fits the bill. I've got a 220 synthetic pistol grip and it's never had an issue. Cycles positively, feeds well, no worries.

You could also go something like the Stoeger Outback / Defence for a tactical type double barrel.

[Traditionalist]

I don't know what you mean InisBineest, tactical shotguns have a long 'tradition' of use in the military I take your point though... I was going to call myself 'Mild Extremist' but thought better of it.

By 'tactical' I really just mean 20" barrel or less as I'll be stumbling around in the scrub in torn jeans chasing pigs rather than attending the skeet range wearing a tweed vest.

Thanks for the SHS recommendation. At first glance they seem similar to the Adler... I'll check them out further.

[Traditionalist]

Thanks Boingk, the Adler is top of my list so far. I'd also consider something a bit pricier if it really was a jump up in reliability, though most reviews are saying the Adler is reliable.

[ZaineB]

from what I have seen and used I would go the Stoeger, I have the adler and meh, its ok but far from perfect, the stoeger is a much nicer unit. the dickinsons are ok too, but not very customizable and the impala are kinda fodder in my mind, havent managed to try out a sulun arms cos no one I know has one, but lets just say I wished I had bought the Stoeger.

[ZaineB]

Thanks Boingk, the Adler is top of my list so far. I'd also consider something a bit pricier if it really was a jump up in reliability, though most reviews are saying the Adler is reliable.

adler is fine if you arent intending on using High Brass rounds, if you are be prepared to swear at it a lot.

[Traditionalist]

Thanks ZaneB, good to hear of your experience with the Adler. The Tactical Stoeger M3000 does fit my needs.

[womble]

For zombies I’d probably go the stoeger. Five year warranty. Infinitely customizable. A lot of m4 accessories will fit too. And good price.
Then theres alll the 3 gun comp briley bling. So you can too easilly splash out more than the original purchase price. Which kinda voids that original purchase price advantage….

The tac 12 , costs a little more, kills it for design. Again you can spend a crapload on crap you dont even need to accessorise it. However, in the advent of a zombie apocalypse probably going to be a life saver. Zombies hate strobe lights for example. Which are actually illegal. Who gives a s**t, not me.

Either of the above are unparalleled in reliably of function in our straight pull market. But if you actually want to hunt with it, both offer versions with longer barrels which have their advantages.

The Dickinson imo has the nicest fit and finish though, for a good price too. And not too dissimilar action, reliable in function.

But then, there are heaps of offerings with detachable mags that are well made units too. And that’s a very useful feature.

Buy whatever you like and smash pigs thumbsup:

[womble]

Disclaimer, i see you live in nsw. Don’t mention zombies on pta, seriously.

Further disclaimer, i see you live in Australia. Don’t even mention zombies ever with any interactions with LRD. Don’t keep your hands in your pockets and don’t smile or appear happy.
People enjoying life really pisses them off.

[womble]

And I’d also like to give thanks to traditional owners of this forum, the noongaboonga tribe on who’s sacred ground i wrote the above posts

[Traditionalist]

Thanks for the insights Womble... let's say I made the jump into hyperspace and cobbled together around 2000 units of fiat currency and wanted to buy a shotgun that wasn't made in a country where hundreds of my fellow Australian's died face down in the mud, what would you suggest?

Does it just go from average Turkish delights straight to the Benelli? M3 or are there bang sticks that occupy a salubrious middle ground that reminds you of sitting on the verandah of a Queenslander with a kelpie named Banjo while imbibing the sensory enchantment of a sugar cane field burn off? ...shotguns that are distinctly known for their reliability that is.

[Traditionalist]

...maybe even 2,500 units of fiat currency... what say you then? Any goodness to be had?

[perentie]

No one has mentioned the C-More .M26, Made in USA. Cleavers sell them in two barrel lengths if I remember.

[Bilko]

I second boingk with regards to the Adler, although I understand the pistol grip is an issue in NSW, and I have no experience with the traditional style. Maybe I am just lucky but I haven’t had the issues that ZaineB alludes to with mine. My son had an SHS which was pure garbage, broke the cocking lever, internals were loose and many jams and misfeeds. If you watch Hunting with Stu on YouTube, hits mate has an SHS an misdeeds in firefights with pigs.

[Traditionalist]

Perentie, that C-more .M26 looks like a handy unit! Though at 3.5K a little out of my budget... and sadly disallowed in NSW where I live.

I like where you're going with it though. Is there something in that ballpark perhaps closer to $2 - 2.5K?

[mchughcb]

...maybe even 2,500 units of fiat currency... what say you then? Any goodness to be had?

Try and grab a Veloce then. I rate them above any straight pull even though the price is going to be higher. Maybe you might be lucky and jag a second hand one.

And I'd rate my 3 barrel before I rate the veloce which is even cheaper. Second hand 12 gauges are going for a steal at the moment.

But if you want to practice and actually hit something, then I'd rate a Miroku Mk70 or a Beretta Silver Pigeon 2nd hand before the all the above and new they are under the price you are quoting.

[Communism_Is_Cancer]

The tac 12 is my favourite Queensland cat A fixed mag shotgun with the berika being my favourite detachable magazine.

[linkoln]

I don't feel like there is any difference when it comes to straight pull shotguns. Yeah they have different grips and slightly different aesthetics but non semi auto shot guns are all the same. I had a Dickinson and traded it for a tac 12 and as I mentioned the only difference is the grip and charging handle absolutely no operating difference.
It all comes down to which one you like better.

[womble]

Thanks for the insights Womble... let's say I made the jump into hyperspace and cobbled together around 2000 units of fiat currency and wanted to buy a shotgun that wasn't made in a country where hundreds of my fellow Australian's died face down in the mud, what would you suggest?

Does it just go from average Turkish delights straight to the Benelli? M3 or are there bang sticks that occupy a salubrious middle ground that reminds you of sitting on the verandah of a Queenslander with a kelpie named Banjo while imbibing the sensory enchantment of a sugar cane field burn off? ...shotguns that are distinctly known for their reliability that is.

That’s an excellent question.
I can see your dilemma. I don’t like Turkish people either. But that’s probably because i don’t know any. My fear of the unknown conjours up images in my mind of people wearing their laundry on their heads, yelling something about Alans snackbars and randomly exploding on aeroplanes.
Perhaps next time i buy a kebab at 3am i will get to know old mate better. We can chat about the Great War and let bygones be bygones. Or depending on how drunk i am , we can fight about it.
It is of note that they have been our allies in war time since then. They have the second largest standing army in nato. And have sacrificed heavily fighting for our team in everything from Korea to Afghanistan and everything in between.
In fact we’d probably have been at a huge disadvantage without their alliance in the Middle East. Pretty much every time we’ve needed to secure oil or gas.

I think the guys above me have given good answers.
Mchub is the go to guy for shotgun finery. He does have a nice collection of fine guns.

The straight pulls here are really only supplied for a certain market demographic. Utilitarian knockabout guns for chasing pigs. In that sense they are well suited, with synthetic stocks and tactical ergonomics. Easy to strip and clean the dust out.
AFAIK there is’nt a market for these gun outside of us. There’s no advantage to be had over a pump or semi.

Reliability. It’s not so much the gun as 12 gauge empty casings in general. Lever actions don’t always manage empty 12 gauge shell cases so great. and they can hang up in pump actions or semi-autos also.

Are all straight pulls the same. Yes and no. There’s two marketed here that are different in action. The first being the above mentioned c-more. I’ve never seen one but they look like they are built to last. The second being the double barrel mh-12.
These two are push, pull in operation and don’t have a return spring.

The rest are pull back, spring return.
They are use an action devolved from a semi auto. They can not be converted to semi auto in operation though with built in design features to ensure as such.
They do retain the design that makes a semi-auto shotgun reliable in function though. So i don’t think reliability is an issue really. Moreso just trying to run unusual older type shotshells through them.

The most reliable shotgun by legend is the benelli m4. Whilst there are two distinct types of semi-auto shotgun in current manufacturing. One being gas driven operation, the other being inertia driven. The benelli m4 uses both systems. Not only that, but it has dual gas pistons. So the chances of this gun ever failing are pretty slim.

The bolt in the benelli is considered the most reliable in design. The patent for that bolt expired in recent years. So it can be manufactured in Turkey.
So imo i would be favouring the straight pulls that use that particular bolt and action. Which would be the tac-12 or the stoeger. And the Dickinson is almost identical.

Also of note, i am yet to read a review of poor customer service should someone buy a lemon in any of the straight pull offerings here. Quite the opposite. All distributors go above and beyond to promptly rectify any any issues.

[womble]

I also had a chance to handle one of these this morning. Was very impressed. To me it felt more natural to shoulder and aim.
And with interchangeable chokes its suited for everything. And at a wonderful price. Definately worth adding to your short list and trying on for size.
https://theoutpostarms.com.au/stoeger-m3k-12g-straight-pull-shotgun/

[Gun-nut]

And I’d also like to give thanks to traditional owners of this forum, the noongaboonga tribe on who’s sacred ground i wrote the above posts

Dude, I'm pissing myself don't think I've laughed this hard at a forum post since, ever really.

[womble]

And just quietly, chainsaw bayonets for zombies can be purchased here https://www.panaceax.com/

Edit:: sold out. Well that is worrying indeed.

[mchughcb]

I also had a chance to handle one of these this morning. Was very impressed. To me it felt more natural to shoulder and aim.
And with interchangeable chokes its suited for everything. And at a wonderful price. Definately worth adding to your short list and trying on for size.
https://theoutpostarms.com.au/stoeger-m3k-12g-straight-pull-shotgun/

If I can put a bayonet attachment on it, I could be tempted to add it to my collection. It says that its derived off the inertia system so I'd be keen to see one setup like the veloce with a thumb tab just to release the bolt. Maybe that is in the wings. Its not often I have to use more than 3 shots on anything but there is the odd occasion

[Traditionalist]

chainsaw bayonet.jpg (246.33 KiB) Viewed 10276 times

Womble I thought you were kidding! And they are indeed sold out at U.S. $500 a piece. Ah well zombies are a real threat so it makes sense.

I know what you mean about the laundry hat crowd, Alan's Snack Bar gets a bad wrap with some demographic groups... but there's just no pleasing everyone.

Thanks again for your input, and everyone else too.

Mr mchughcb, your very sound advice has caused me to soberly assess the nature of my being. On the one hand I know what you're saying is fair, those shotguns are more refined and would be the sensible option, on the other, I just feel drawn towards a shorter barrelled synthetic type of set up. If was a more refined individual myself I'd probably be seeking out a quality, walnut stocked shotgun.

Perhaps the Stoeger will do me well enough.... though I wish I could have that U.S. made C-more .M26

[Traditionalist]

Tiny 12G.jpg (224.7 KiB) Viewed 10275 times

I found this tiny 12G made by C-more in the U.S.! It may well be as potentially hazardous to the shooter as it is the target... but maybe that's half the fun!

I wonder what the recoil is like

[mchughcb]

chainsaw bayonet.jpg

Womble I thought you were kidding! And they are indeed sold out at U.S. $500 a piece. Ah well zombies are a real threat so it makes sense.

Thanks again for your input, and everyone else too. I hear you Mr mchughcb, those shotguns you mentioned are no doubt more refined, though I suspect I'm more in line for a synthetic stock affair. Perhaps the Stoeger will do me well enough.... but secretly I wish I could have that U.S. made C-more .M26

A mate I hunt with has a bettinsoli camo synthetic. I like it and it shoots great and take a lot of abuse.

If you have your heart set on a straight pull synthetic go for it. If you are only want to shoot cans and have a bit of fun enjoy.

[MontyShooter]

It says that its derived off the inertia system so I'd be keen to see one setup like the veloce with a thumb tab just to release the bolt. Maybe that is in the wings. Its not often I have to use more than 3 shots on anything but there is the odd occasion

The veloce is a gas gun, not inertia like most of the semi autos our straight pulls are derived from.

[Patriot]

I have a tac-12, Impala and pardus lever action. To be honest the pardus is my favourite. It hasn’t missed a beat it’s a lot faster on the follow up shots and I like the 16.5 inch barrel. The TAC 12 is definitely the pick of the straight pulls.

[Gun-nut]

Found a video online where they represented a model of the stoeger that has a 10 round tube. Would be neat for shotgun comps like IPSC, and the zombie apocalypse as your requirements dictate.