Liege 12g Double Barrel info

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Liege 12g Double Barrel info

Post by Posty » 01 May 2023, 11:32 am

I own an old Liege 12 Gauge hammer shotgun which belonged to my father's father. (Roughly 100 years)
I'm considering selling as I have held it for the last 40 years or so and just need to know what these would sell for at a licenced dealer.
Its fully operational and in pretty fair condition. I did a bit of research and there were quite a few of these made in a couple of the Liege United Arms company. This one was apparently built in Belgium. I am hoping someone is a bit of a historian and my be able to help.
Photos attached.
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20230501_111046.jpg (240.08 KiB) Viewed 1913 times
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20230501_111040.jpg (185.78 KiB) Viewed 1913 times
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20230501_111124.jpg (339.05 KiB) Viewed 1913 times
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20230501_111026.jpg (222.59 KiB) Viewed 1913 times
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20230501_111347.jpg (253.66 KiB) Viewed 1913 times
Posty
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Re: Liege 12g Double Barrel info

Post by Diamond Jim » 04 May 2023, 9:02 pm

Hard to say about value but I'm guessing the sentimental value far outweighs what you'd get for it. I'd guess not very much at all. It seems to be proofed for black powder only - not for smokeless powder. That doesn't necessarily mean it's dangerous but it hasn't been tested (do a search for where BP shotgun barrels burst when firing smokeless shells and you will see why its an issue). Hard to read from the photos but there appear to be a marks reading (12-70) which might mean 12G, 70mm chambers (i.e.2 3/4").
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Re: Liege 12g Double Barrel info

Post by No1Mk3 » 05 May 2023, 12:12 am

G'day Posty,
Your gun was made in or after 1924, they were sold all around the world. I have the same make and model as yours, same era, and I paid $100 for it last month in good condition. A dealer is unlikely to offer you much more than $50 to $80, if they do then take it. A top price would be $200 retail. As for proof, these were proof tested with BP at a higher pressure than the Nitro Proof, and Nitro proofing in Belgium at the time was purely voluntary and used by makers as a selling point especially in the US, given that both Bulk and Dense Nitro loaded shotshell were in common use at the time your gun was always intended to fire Nitro loaded to the common pressures of the day which are about 2000psi under todays high pressure loads. As such, I shoot any modern shotshell in my old steel barrel guns that are loaded to 9000psi, and most light hunting loads, up to1 1/8, lead only, under 1200fps. Have the gun checked by a competent gunsmith first of course, loose ribs are a pain!
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Re: Liege 12g Double Barrel info

Post by Posty » 05 May 2023, 4:51 pm

Diamond Jim wrote:Hard to say about value but I'm guessing the sentimental value far outweighs what you'd get for it. I'd guess not very much at all. It seems to be proofed for black powder only - not for smokeless powder. That doesn't necessarily mean it's dangerous but it hasn't been tested (do a search for where BP shotgun barrels burst when firing smokeless shells and you will see why its an issue). Hard to read from the photos but there appear to be a marks reading (12-70) which might mean 12G, 70mm chambers (i.e.2 3/4").


Thanks Jim, I actually still have a bunch of the original red black powder Winchester High Velocity Duck Load marked as 4 - 1(3/16) - 5
They appear to be 2 3/4" long

I know these work because when I was a kid, the duck tasted great and my old man taught me how to use it properly :)

Also have a bunch of Blue Duck Load 3 only the casing shows as M with 12 and 12 top and bottom on the brass.Must have been generic rounds.
I guess these old guns only had the choice of Black Powder back then.
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Re: Liege 12g Double Barrel info

Post by Posty » 05 May 2023, 5:00 pm

No1Mk3 wrote:G'day Posty,
Your gun was made in or after 1924, they were sold all around the world. I have the same make and model as yours, same era, and I paid $100 for it last month in good condition. A dealer is unlikely to offer you much more than $50 to $80, if they do then take it. A top price would be $200 retail. As for proof, these were proof tested with BP at a higher pressure than the Nitro Proof, and Nitro proofing in Belgium at the time was purely voluntary and used by makers as a selling point especially in the US, given that both Bulk and Dense Nitro loaded shotshell were in common use at the time your gun was always intended to fire Nitro loaded to the common pressures of the day which are about 2000psi under todays high pressure loads. As such, I shoot any modern shotshell in my old steel barrel guns that are loaded to 9000psi, and most light hunting loads, up to1 1/8, lead only, under 1200fps. Have the gun checked by a competent gunsmith first of course, loose ribs are a pain!


Your timeline sounds spot on No1, my grandfather fed his family using the gun about that time. I didn't know about the nitro rounds but rabbits were definitely the meal of choice and cheapest shells were probably chosen with lots of hungry mouths at the table to feed during the great depression.
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Re: Liege 12g Double Barrel info

Post by Oldbloke » 05 May 2023, 5:51 pm

Would I sell my grandfathers shot gun? (if I had it) NO WAY.
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Re: Liege 12g Double Barrel info

Post by bigpete » 05 May 2023, 6:32 pm

Fwiw i run modern shells in my 100 year hollis Damascus hammer gun to no ill effect and I've been told anything made after 1900 is pretty much proofed for smokeless anyway
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Re: Liege 12g Double Barrel info

Post by Diamond Jim » 10 May 2023, 7:58 pm

bigpete wrote:Fwiw i run modern shells in my 100 year hollis Damascus hammer gun to no ill effect and I've been told anything made after 1900 is pretty much proofed for smokeless anyway


My father's shotgun by a well known London maker has Damascus barrels with 2 1/2" chambers and we used to run Eley Grand Prix when they were still available. His gunsmith assured him it was safe to do so. Not so easy to find 2 1/2" shells today loaded to lower pressures in Australia although these are available in the UK specifically for these old guns. I don't know anyone who imports these.

As I said, the old Liege gun might be perfectly safe but I'd want a qualified gunsmith to tell me so before I'd put modern shells through it.

YMMV
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Re: Liege 12g Double Barrel info

Post by Larry » 11 May 2023, 8:02 am

I have a similar 2 1/2 inch black powder gun. In the end I did my own proofing and now shoot 2 3/4 common everyday nitro loads in it with no ill effects. Dont think I would do it with a damascus steel barrel though.
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