A-110 Lever action shotgun.

[brett1868]

'Rapid fire'...dont tell them about what an experienced operator can get on target with an SMLE, a full mag of 10 and a bag full of clips, hopefully they dont go Eagle Park or find out about the Youtube site....

Had the same thought as you, I can get double the rounds off with a high degree of accuracy from my little PWS T3 22LR then with the lever action Adler. Also the 22LR can be lethal out past 100m, cant say the same about lead shot from a 12Ga...

[1290]

Although I'm not a huge fan of this guy and his show, it was the first video I hit with the search of yuhutube.....
It give you an idea of what you can do with a century old rifle, consider the 10round mags and clip.... and theyre jumping up and down getting their panties in a bind about a shotty... different technique, such as the tilt technique which require half or so the bolt lift, then tell me what 'rapid fire' is....and no wonder zi Germans thought the allies all had machine guns.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFYZHLuxXZ8

this message will expire.... else they'll be coming for our 303s too!!!

[bear foot bowhunter]

read an artical the other day that said that the where trying to ban lever and pump actions rifles and shotgun so they may try getting this throw first

[Yelp]

^I cant see this staying a Cat A in Vic at least

Slowly becoming WA?

[Newdave]

For gods sake they are also talking about moving bolt actions with detachable magazines to Cat C I wont have a firearm left. This is getting ridiculous.

[KWhorenet]

For gods sake they are also talking about moving bolt actions with detachable magazines to Cat C I wont have a firearm left. This is getting ridiculous.

Where are you reading this.

New Zealand is rather a nice place isn't it?

[simmo]

Gday everyone

Below is a petition being run on change.org to petition the relevant ministers not to change the goal posts on the categorisation of firearms, A110 in particular. It doesnt take long and and is a way of demonstrating opposition to this propsed obscene adjustment of regulation.

https://www.change.org/p/victoria-polic ... gun-owners

[oohsam]

If they re classify lever actions . I'm guessing they wont offer you a cent . You are free to sell it to someone by a certain date or hand it in . Its a disgrace what the Victorian police are doing whipping up this media feeding frenzy to justify their agenda.. .

Easy there with the assumptions. If they ban them they MUST compensate the owners.
Australian constitutional law requires that they buy it back:

The Constitution gives the Commonwealth power "with respect to ... the acquisition of property on just terms" in Section 51(xxxi). By contrast, the Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution contains a prohibition: "nor shall private property be taken ... without just compensation". The differences between acquisition and taking, and between terms and compensation, combined with the fact that the Australian provision is expressed as a positive grant of power coupled with a limitation, have been read so as to weaken the Australian guarantee relative to the American one.

The use of the term "acquisition" has been interpreted so as to require that the Commonwealth (or some other party for a Commonwealth purpose) actually acquire possessory or proprietary rights over the property in question, or at least some benefit: the mere extinguishment of a person's proprietary rights by the Commonwealth (or a prohibition on effectively exercising them) is insufficient to amount to an acquisition. And "just terms" has been taken to mean something less than "just compensation"; in particular, it does not necessarily require payment to the owner of the value of the property when it was compulsorily acquired.

[trekin]

If they re classify lever actions . I'm guessing they wont offer you a cent . You are free to sell it to someone by a certain date or hand it in . Its a disgrace what the Victorian police are doing whipping up this media feeding frenzy to justify their agenda.. .

Easy there with the assumptions. If they ban them they MUST compensate the owners.
Australian constitutional law requires that they buy it back:

The Constitution gives the Commonwealth power "with respect to ... the acquisition of property on just terms" in Section 51(xxxi). By contrast, the Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution contains a prohibition: "nor shall private property be taken ... without just compensation". The differences between acquisition and taking, and between terms and compensation, combined with the fact that the Australian provision is expressed as a positive grant of power coupled with a limitation, have been read so as to weaken the Australian guarantee relative to the American one.

The use of the term "acquisition" has been interpreted so as to require that the Commonwealth (or some other party for a Commonwealth purpose) actually acquire possessory or proprietary rights over the property in question, or at least some benefit: the mere extinguishment of a person's proprietary rights by the Commonwealth (or a prohibition on effectively exercising them) is insufficient to amount to an acquisition. And "just terms" has been taken to mean something less than "just compensation"; in particular, it does not necessarily require payment to the owner of the value of the property when it was compulsorily acquired.

But this only works when it's the Commonwealth that requires the acquisition. if it is only at State by State level then the chances are there will no compensation paid.

[1290]

When was there any suggestion that either the commonwealth or the states were going into the firearm business and start buying up our guns???

Just as the SA politz canceled a number of PTAs a couple of yrs back, the firearm owners had x number of days or weeks to dispose of the rifles....same if a firearm is reclass'd, it would be up to the owner to resolve 'their' situation and dispose of it.

Given that a re-class is obviously on the table at VICPOL (dont worry about the working group, that will take too long for the grabbers) and the Adler wont hit the shores until August - it would be expedient for the stasi to reclassify the Adler within weeks if not sooner; that way no Victorians will have the opportunity to send in their PTAs, at least not for a Cat A licence....

From the sounds of that email response on the other thread.... lever shotties are only the start, if 7 rounds is high cap what about the centrefire levers with 10+ rounds....

[1290]

What are the pollies saying in Parliament?......SFP made statement, and asked question, government responded with blah blah..... it obviously a done deal, the 'weapon' is 'high capacity' 'rapid fire' 'new technology' and a 'threat to the community'. Why? because Vicpol said so.

When discussed later in the year by the 'working group' of all state pol ministers and hangers on - there is not a hope in hell of a single one of those tools standing up and objecting to further restrictions, and particularly to the reclassification of the Adler..... and they are advised directly by the experts, the police - if thats not a bias....then I dont know, asking a cop whether more guns should be taken away from the people .




VIC Parliament Hansard
COUNCIL Thursday, 25 June 2015

Mr BOURMAN (Eastern Victoria) — It should be no surprise to people that members of the Shooters and Fishers Party are highly attuned to the happenings regarding firearms and legislation in the state. Back in 1996 we saw changes which introduced what I call an unfair system, but it is a system we must abide by. Of late there has been some furore regarding an Adler lever-action shotgun that has somehow managed to make the front page of the news and is taking up a lot of air time.
I saw online last night that a senior minister has said that they share a concern about the classification of this firearm, but I need to remind the government that these classifications have been in place for 19 years and nothing has gone wrong. This firearm, the Adler shotgun, is by every definition a category A firearm,
and it should remain a category A firearm.


AND


Mr YOUNG (Northern Victoria) — My question is for the Minister for Training and Skills in his capacity representing the Minister for Police. I refer to an article in today’s Herald Sun about the new Adler shotgun. It says:

Victorian police minister Wade Noonan said they would argue the weapon should have the same restriction as a semiautomatic firearm.

The article then quotes the minister as saying:

I have spoken to the acting chief commissioner Tim Cartwright about this matter. He has raised his concerns that this weapon — and others like it — are no longer appropriate for a category A classification. I share his concerns …

On what grounds does the minister believe that this particular firearm is no longer appropriate for category A classification?

Mr HERBERT (Minister for Training and Skills) — In response, I am advised by Victoria Police that the Adler A110 lever-action shotgun legally falls
within the definition of a category A firearm under the Firearms Act 1996. I thank Mr Young for his question.
He is well known for having strong views on these matters. As Mr Young points out, there is a concern that this firearm is essentially a higher capacity,
rapid-fire weapon than current category A firearms. It is important to make sure that we regulate and enforce the use of these higher capacity firearms.

I am further advised that the national firearms and weapons policy working group, consisting of federal, state and territory police and justice agencies, is
currently in the process of actively considering a number of issues, including the classification of firearms and other technical elements under the 1996
national firearms agreement. The classification of firearms such as the Adler weapon will form part of these discussions. This group will make
recommendations to federal, state and territory police ministers — and it is a matter for the police — on the classification of firearms as part of the review of the national firearms agreement which occurred post the Martin Place siege joint commonwealth and New South Wales review. It is expected that the recommendations will be considered by ministers at the Law, Crime and Community Safety Council later this year.

While the government recognises that firearm technology and design is an evolving matter and that there have been significant changes to weaponry since
the national firearms agreement was first signed almost 20 years ago, it is of the view that it may now be appropriate for Australia’s firearm classification system to move in step with technological advances in the firearm industry in order to maintain community safety.

Supplementary question

Mr YOUNG (Northern Victoria) — I thank the minister for his answer. Given that there was an inference to move this particular firearm to another category, what specific problem, if any, is being solved by this, and how?

Mr HERBERT (Minister for Training and Skills) — I thank the member for his supplementary question. As I said, there is not an inference, but certainly this weapon is part of the technological change in weaponry, and there is a process which is agreed through national and state bodies of police ministers in terms of looking at the national firearm classification system and taking into account technology.

Clearly this is a matter of community concern and community safety. There are different types of firearms, and I do not think anyone would dispute that there should be different classifications for them. There is a process in place which will advise the ministerial law council later about how those technological advances and the changes in weaponry impact on the national firearms classification. The intent of the classification system in terms of the danger that weapons present as opposed to sporting use or whatever, how that technology has changed and whether the classification system should change also will be addressed by ministers later in the year.

[bear foot bowhunter]

so this will be a national ban if it comes about ? not just state ? I'm getting a reel uneasy feeling about this .

[Davies]

If it doesn't go through this is going to be the best thing for Adler.

They couldn't have bought this much publicity.

[1290]

so this will be a national ban if it comes about ? not just state ? I'm getting a reel uneasy feeling about this .

No, not exactly national.... All the police ministers and perhaps police reps, chief commishs, all get together and pretend to debate these matters then the states take the resolutions and implement what they choose to. The National Firearms agreement, the NFA post PAM (that was prepared BEFORE pam) was implemented in all states separately but pretty much in its entirety with minor differences between states...

If the categories change (levers go from A&B to C (&D?), it will most likely be implemented nation wide by the states, if the cats don't change then individual states will fall back on the re-classification... unfortunately the momentum created by the Sydney 'incident' with the added silliness generated by the Adler... will probably, IMO see a change to the CATs...

[Sakoh]

Then "rapid fire bolt actions" will be next on the list

They'll want us behind single shots next.

[VICHunter]

Then it'll be "high powered" single shot rifles.

"sniper" single shot rifles.

[on_one_wheel]

Iv put a deposit on a 110.

If there is a reclassification on levers I'm going to be PISSED !

I can't be level the hype over this gun, ffs it's not new technology, it's not rapid fire and these people wanting to change the rules have zero working knowledge of firearms.

Where is the evidence to prove we need a change ? What are these people smoking ?

[on_one_wheel]

Gday everyone

Below is a petition being run on change.org to petition the relevant ministers not to change the goal posts on the categorisation of firearms, A110 in particular. It doesnt take long and and is a way of demonstrating opposition to this propsed obscene adjustment of regulation.

https://www.change.org/p/victoria-polic ... gun-owners

with over 8000 on order, how is it that this petition has not had the 10 000 signatures required yet ? It's like 90 % of licenced firearms owners suffer from CBF

[North East]

I don't want one....not into shotguns....lever actions have been around for over a hundred years....they cycle quickly....but they always have....why change now?

[1290]

One thing is for certain, this represents the most significant 'war' on firearms, since the longarm then the handgun stealbacks - and it is obviously the rifle as well as shotguns they are considering, why wouldnt they have rimfires as well? Do they have pumps, centrefire and rimfire in their sight??

If there is not a concerted effort on the behalf of gun owners, to oppose even discussion on the matter, then there could potentially be a lot of storage cabinets being raided; how many 30-30 levers out there? let alone the 357 and 44Mag levers that are very popular BECAUSE we cant have semis.....all the IAC and Chiappas shotties will go

There was an incident this morning where a police officer was shot in the back of the head with a shotgun (vague details, but he's sounds ok from the reports, possibly ricochet of a few pellets) ---- that was all that was needed for the "Ban the shotgun" rhetoric to resurface after a week or so of quiet. "Shotguns are dangerous, 1 shot is bad enough, more than 2 is outlandish and too much of a danger to public (read police) safety..."

[Hatter]

I can't be level the hype over this gun, ffs it's not new technology

Yeah but it's black, and to make things worse it has a little bit of red on it.

AND OMFG ISN'T THAT SCARY!!!!

[oohsam]

When was there any suggestion that either the commonwealth or the states were going into the firearm business and start buying up our guns???

Just as the SA politz canceled a number of PTAs a couple of yrs back, the firearm owners had x number of days or weeks to dispose of the rifles....same if a firearm is reclass'd, it would be up to the owner to resolve 'their' situation and dispose of it.

Given that a re-class is obviously on the table at VICPOL (dont worry about the working group, that will take too long for the grabbers) and the Adler wont hit the shores until August - it would be expedient for the stasi to reclassify the Adler within weeks if not sooner; that way no Victorians will have the opportunity to send in their PTAs, at least not for a Cat A licence....

From the sounds of that email response on the other thread.... lever shotties are only the start, if 7 rounds is high cap what about the centrefire levers with 10+ rounds....

There has been many suggestions coming from a federal level that there will be a buy back if this goes ahead.
Lets be very clear on something guys.

If the governments re-classify existing lever action firearms (and we're not just talking about shotguns here, all lever actions are part of the discussion), the owners of existing lever actions will suffer financial loss due to the policy of the government.
They have to compensate them, but this is not the issue, and I don't think this is the discussion we should be having.

It's very easy to sit here and talk about how lever actions are not rapid fire, discuss the ins and outs of firearms, the history of lever actions, and as firearm owners, we have a very tunnel vision style approach to this (because we love our sport and love our firearms), but for the average Joe, its frightening. And the average Joe doesn't know the intricate details of lever's and pumps and T - bolts etc. So they will gobble up the "Ban all guns" song and dance that the media is running.

We need to take more action.
Of the entire 8 pages in this thread, how many of you have typed up an email and sent it to the General Attorney, or your local member or whoever is the recommended body ?
Just like that petition has stuff all signatories on it. We come on the forum, rant and rave and post stats but do nothing to secure the things we have been granted.
Owning a firearm is not a right in Australia unlike America. But you bet your donkey that if this happened in the States, it wouldn't fly for a second, because if there's one thing they know how to do, is rally together and speak out. Something us Aussies are just too damn lazy to do.

If we just sit around complaining and whinging all day, in a few decades, we'll have no firearms to enjoy the sports we love, and we'll all be on here talking about the good old days.

[Jessie]

Just as the SA politz canceled a number of PTAs a couple of yrs back, the firearm owners had x number of days or weeks to dispose of the rifles....same if a firearm is reclass'd, it would be up to the owner to resolve 'their' situation and dispose of it.

You'd love getting that letter wouldn't you.

Dear sir,

Due to recent legislation changes you are now a criminal. You have X days to dispose of the firearm (at a financial loss) or you'll be treated like one.

P.S. Yes we know you paid good money for it and we told you you could have it but them's the breaks. Soz.

[1290]

Or something along the lines of " we have reconsidered your PTA and have determined that it is no longer valid..... please dispose of your single shot 22 rimfire......."

But on a very serious note, something that I have a lot of trouble accepting - is how these mofos declare that a firearm, not as yet possessed by law abiding firearm owners, being a class of the most heavily regulated Australians; would represent a threat to the safety of the community in OUR POSSESSION..... not in the possession of the criminal element, but OURS.

NO??

Consider this firearm is yet to land on these shores, when(/if) it does it will be solely for the bona fide licensed firearm owner..... NOT the criminal 'market' so therefore the implication is that these firearm will be directly diverted by 'us' to the gray or black market (they couldnt agree on a definition at the senate hearing on gray / black)...or used by us for nefarious purposes... so thanks our representatives for the faith in us you've demonstrated in your comment in Parliament (no less) ^up there.

[KWhorenet]

NZ is quite green.

[1290]

plenty of deer....

[KWhorenet]

pasture is looking good too

[1290]

AND THEYVE GOT THESE!!!!

[Oldbloke]

1290, Cant see the image

[SendIt]

Broken