Akkar XM12 - opinions?

[sandgroperbill]

So... I find myself starting to look for a short over under, something that can be used as a bit of a knockabout and fairly light to sling on by back while i'm carrying my rifle or just sitting in the back of the ute. I know its a bit tacticool, but a wood stock will probably get a bit too beaten up.

Anyway, this looks like it might do the job. Does anyone have any experience with these or akkar in general?

[Billi]

I think the XM12 hasn't been around too long, so there might not be many people with actual hands on experience with it. I've been seriously considering the same after shortlisting it. After doing my own reading of reviews, Akkar Churchill shotties in general are good value for money. They seem well made, reliable & they've got quite a nice finish.

Obviously this type of shotgun is marketed as a tactical / home defence weapon (mostly for Americans I think…dare I say) however I don't see it that way. I want shorter than average barrels so it's somewhat lighter to carry. Despite 20" barrels, it has adjustable chokes...a rare thing for short barrels (and a huge positive since it's the chokes that affect spread much more than barrel length). Think it comes with a five year warranty. You can set it to fire either barrel first & it has ejectors rather than extractors (not always a positive). With ejectors you can always cover the back ends of the shells with your hand so they only pop out part way if you want. I’d prefer one front picatinny underneath rather than the two on the sides that it is fitted with.

I hope to make the purchase on one of these in the next 4-6 weeks (other one I shortlisted was a Mossberg Maverick HS12 with interchangeable chokes). I might pipe back here in a couple of months with more information (there is absolutely nothing on the internet about the XM12 at the moment). For my situation I kinda want only one shotgun that is reasonably versatile but obviously compromises have to be made. I hope it to be a good general all-round hunting shotgun, without having excess weight. I plan to mainly hunt for deer with it (will pop a red dot reflex sight on it, run a slug in one barrel with an aftermarket rifled choke & perhaps #5 or #6 in the other barrel choked in case I come across any bunnies. I concede if I use it for duck hunting or clays I might get some strange looks as 20” barrels do not provide the best sight picture for aiming but I’ll be fine if I'm doing those activities once in a blue moon (with tight chokes).

[on_one_wheel]

The firt thing I would pick against it would be that top lever, the big gap between it and the action makes it look vulnerable to dammage and catching on things.

The stock looks cheep, but I have never liked plastic stocks.

With all those rails on it you would have a spare spot to hang your water bag .... that's a bonus.

As you said though its got some great features for a 20" How much are they going for ?

[sandgroperbill]

Price wise, over here in wa, its around $1300. That new adler a-110 also looks like it may be worth a look. I've spoken to gunsmith over here that has had a couple of mossbergs come through and he refuses to sell them. He had nothing good to say about them.

Decisions decisions..

[Title_II]

Obviously this type of shotgun is marketed as a tactical / home defence weapon (mostly for Americans I think…dare I say) however I don't see it that way.

Americans don't buy over/unders for home defense. They buy pumps mostly, or semis.

I've never seen anything like that before and I don't think it would sell here. O/U are serious sporting firearms here.

[sandgroperbill]

O/u = reliability. Simple with nothing to go wrong. See, i'm not huge on shotguns for hunting. They definitely have their place, and i can definitely understand how people love them, but i prefer rifles.
That said, i want a light, reliable shotgun to sling over my back while i'm walking around with a 22 or 223 in case i come across something bigger.
So far, the xm12 and a110 look to be at the top of my list.

[Title_II]

O/u = reliability. Simple with nothing to go wrong. See, i'm not huge on shotguns for hunting. They definitely have their place, and i can definitely understand how people love them, but i prefer rifles.
That said, i want a light, reliable shotgun to sling over my back while i'm walking around with a 22 or 223 in case i come across something bigger.
So far, the xm12 and a110 look to be at the top of my list.

My buddy has an O/U with a 20 gauge and a .223 so he can shoot turkeys close/in the air or far.

[Lyam]

Americans don't buy over/unders for home defense. They buy pumps mostly, or semis.

I've never seen anything like that before and I don't think it would sell here. O/U are serious sporting firearms here.

I'm a little surprised to hear a blanket statement like that that all/most Americans won't use a O/U or SxS for home defence.

Not saying your wrong, you'd know better than me as you're there obviously.

There's what I'd have called a stereo type but may it's true of Americans overdoing the home defence gun.

How often is a short double barrel not going to cut it is my question I guess. You would think in 90% of cases just pointing it at an intruder is enough to send them running, if you are forced to pull the trigger you're unlikely to miss with a shotgun at the ranges we're talking and they're not going to shrug off a hit.

Know what I mean?

[Title_II]

Americans don't buy over/unders for home defense. They buy pumps mostly, or semis.

I've never seen anything like that before and I don't think it would sell here. O/U are serious sporting firearms here.

I'm a little surprised to hear a blanket statement like that that all/most Americans won't use a O/U or SxS for home defence.

I didn't say they won't use them for self defense. I said they won't buy them for self defense. Does you army use O/U shotguns?

How often is a short double barrel not going to cut it is my question I guess. You would think in 90% of cases just pointing it at an intruder is enough to send them running, if you are forced to pull the trigger you're unlikely to miss with a shotgun at the ranges we're talking and they're not going to shrug off a hit.

Know what I mean?

Almost never? Is that a good answer?

People that come into your home while they know you are there are not going to run simply because you have a gun. At least not reliably. Perhaps you should wield a toy gun and throw some firecrackers at them.

As for missing with a shotgun at "the ranges we're talking," they have no more forgiveness for lack of aiming than rifles. Have you patterned a shotgun at a yard, two, or hallway range? Shotguns don't make you more accurate.

If you think nobody needs a pump shotgun for home defense, that is fine. In my country, if a drunk guy with a .38 revolver, or even a knife, tells his woman she can't leave the house and she calls the cops, 10 cops will show up and of course they need AR-15s and 30 round mags. It's for their safety. In my house, if 4 Latin Kings kick in my front door then nobody needs an "AR-15 baby killer" or more than 10 rounds in a magazine. That would be ridiculous. I would show them my double barreled shotgun and they would all run for the hills.

Maybe the police should send one guy with a double barreled shotgun to get the drunk guy with the .38 revolver or the knife.

By the way, a double barreled shotgun is not an O/U shotgun. At least here. Double barreled shotguns are side by side here. They are often turned into Coach Guns as historical replicas by enthusiasts or for self defense. O/U are serious sporting guns.

All I did was say people in the US wouldn't buy O/U for home defense. I have no idea why that would make you angry and start mocking my country, I think what is available makes a difference in what people choose to buy. And it also influences the culture.

[Lyam]

Mate you have taken my post completely the wrong way. Completely.

Does you army use O/U shotguns?

1) What our army uses has nothing to do with the conversation, your bringing that up is pointless.

Perhaps you should wield a toy gun and throw some firecrackers at them.

Maybe the police should send one guy with a double barreled shotgun to get the drunk guy with the .38 revolver or the knife.

2) Being sarcastic isn't helpful for anyone.

As for missing with a shotgun at "the ranges we're talking," they have no more forgiveness for lack of aiming than rifles. Have you patterned a shotgun at a yard, two, or hallway range? Shotguns don't make you more accurate.

3) I never said they are more forgiving than rifles and I never said shotguns make you more accurate. I said you're unlikely to miss with a shotgun at the ranges we're talking about. "Unlikely".

By the way, a double barreled shotgun is not an O/U shotgun.

4) I don't know if you're just being condescending here or what? Obviously they are different things, demonstrated when I said "I'm a little surprised to hear a blanket statement like that that all/most Americans won't use a O/U or SxS for home defence."

"Or". My point was a 2 barrel/shot firearms vs a higher capacity magazine system.

In my house, if 4 Latin Kings kick in my front door then nobody needs an "AR-15 baby killer" or more than 10 rounds in a magazine. That would be ridiculous. I would show them my double barreled shotgun and they would all run for the hills.

5) Um.... That's exactly what I was saying/asking in my reply. Why are you repeating my assertion back to me like I'm an idiot and it was your idea?

And for the record I never said anything negative about the AR-15 or anything similar, you dragged the conversation down with damaging names like 'baby killer'.

I have no idea why that would make you angry and start mocking my country, I think what is available makes a difference in what people choose to buy. And it also influences the culture.

6) And I have no idea how you got anger or mockery from my post. I said the following:

"I'm a little surprised to hear..."

"Not saying your wrong, you'd know better than me as you're there obviously."

"There's what I'd have called a stereo type..."

"How often is a short double barrel not going to cut it is my question I guess."

"Know what I mean?"

No swearing, no mockery, no caps, no bold, I asked questions, I even said you'd know better than me. There is zero written there to even hint at feelings of anger or mockery. My reply couldn't have been any more friendly frankly.

You got angry and started mocking me for no reason mate, not the other way round.

[Walt68]

I have the short Akkar Triple barrel, best hunting shotgun I ever owned. Build quality is excellent, well balanced, got it for pigs and geese, serves me well.

[Combat_Wombat]

As soon as the forum going international I was counting down until a drongo seppo starts a flaming barney.

[Lyam]

Honest misunderstanding I'm sure.

[bill harr]

Yep got me one of these . looked at all the o@u in australia can say all great guns all doing there job . my pic was the. churchhill just a cut above the rest in the 1500$ or less range for hunting so op for sporter well balenced not saying trap ant as good . got the 2x wonted the 3x barrel but opted out reason 4 there a bit of a fuss about it being overkill . as for how it shoots . that up to the shooter . can say i do very well 1000 kg down to bite sized . not much 4 target shooting . allso big pluss that it cleans up like new even after many random solid rounds . great gun 4 the $