Grandpas Shotgun

Double barrel, side by side, over-under, semi-automatic, straight-pull and lever action shotguns.

Grandpas Shotgun

Post by bigpete » 04 Jul 2016, 1:09 pm

My Grandpa has given me this old muzzleloading 12 gauge shotgun that he bought for 4 shillings when he was 17. It has the words Grundmann in Stendal written on the top rib. Apparently it was owned previously by his German next door neighbour named Karl who died. Grandpa and his brother both used to shoot ducks,rabbits and swamp hens with it in their youth,in fact his brother lost the original ramrod by shooting it out of the barrel by accident ! :-) So grandpa carved a new one out of mallee root. I fully intend to hunt with it if its up to the task,if not,its a lovely gun to pass down to my son. Interestingly the trigger guard seems to be carved bone and the butt pad seems to be made of horn.
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Re: Grandpas Shotgun

Post by bigpete » 04 Jul 2016, 1:11 pm

Some more pictures
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Re: Grandpas Shotgun

Post by Noisydad » 04 Jul 2016, 1:31 pm

Now that's a cool piece of gear! You'll have fun with that! :thumbsup:
There's still a few of Wile. E Coyote's ideas that I haven't tried yet.
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Re: Grandpas Shotgun

Post by bigpete » 04 Jul 2016, 1:40 pm

Have you ever heard of that make?
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Re: Grandpas Shotgun

Post by <<Genesis93>> » 04 Jul 2016, 1:59 pm

Thats a great piece of history, and cleaned up will be an even more remarkable shotgun... I love the trigger guard, very unique..

Grundmann is probably the maker located in the town/City of Stendal in Germany. If they were at all prolific in gun making you'll find info out there....
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Re: Grandpas Shotgun

Post by bigpete » 04 Jul 2016, 3:22 pm

I hope I can clean it up a bit without destroying the carvings on the stock. I think I'll try rubbing it back gently with steel wool then giving it a few coats of truoil ,but I have no idea how I'm going to clean up the metal work.
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Re: Grandpas Shotgun

Post by Noisydad » 04 Jul 2016, 3:38 pm

Use oven cleaner. It'll leach out the soaked in oil and dirt, then wash it off with running warm water and 0000 steel wool then follow the Tru oil instructions. That stuff is great!
There's still a few of Wile. E Coyote's ideas that I haven't tried yet.
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Re: Grandpas Shotgun

Post by bigpete » 04 Jul 2016, 4:12 pm

Cheers for the tip !
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Re: Grandpas Shotgun

Post by brett1868 » 04 Jul 2016, 4:42 pm

Before taking to it with any steel wool I'd be doing some research as to its value. It's quite possible the parts that appear to be bone might actually be ivory which might make this a valuable antique. Any value would be erased as soon as you try and polish up the metal work, do the research before touching it.
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Re: Grandpas Shotgun

Post by bigpete » 04 Jul 2016, 5:18 pm

I've actually spent about a year trying to find out some info on it to no avail. Seems that no one on the internet has any info about it at all
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Re: Grandpas Shotgun

Post by brett1868 » 04 Jul 2016, 7:18 pm

bigpete wrote:I've actually spent about a year trying to find out some info on it to no avail. Seems that no one on the internet has any info about it at all


I'd take that as an indication of rarity which suggests value. Get in touch with your local SSAA branch and see if there's one of the members that collect shotguns and see if they know anything.
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Re: Grandpas Shotgun

Post by bigpete » 04 Jul 2016, 7:40 pm

Hmmm I hear what you say,but even if it is rare and valuable,it will never be sold,so its not as much an issue for me if I clean it up a bit to use. But I will be taking it to Green River Rifle Works soon so they can give it a look over and maybe give me an estimation of value.
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Re: Grandpas Shotgun

Post by COLLECTOR 1 » 04 Jul 2016, 11:16 pm

How you going.......

What ever you do.....DO NOT "clean" this old girl up..... That trigger guard is Ivory for sure....and that gun is very very collectable.... Trust me....And you should be sitting down when it's valued....and I strongly suggest antique dealers and collectors of that type of firearm....2 or 3 valuations and work on an average ......if I'm not mistaken the stock is "Germanic" but yet the hammers and locks appear to be maybe Belgium. .... Which in itself is different ........ But yet the "trade name" points to Scottish if I'm not mistaken.... It's going to take a bit of work and late nights to find out exactly what it is.... And what it's worth....but preserve and live the memory's....and just enjoy it in its original condition....

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Re: Grandpas Shotgun

Post by bigpete » 04 Jul 2016, 11:50 pm

Well that leaves me in a bit of a pickle. I can't sell it as its a family heirloom in my eyes, but it's almost next to useless to me if I can't shoot it.
On another note,anyone ever heard of a "Zella" shotgun ? It's kinda like a cross between a martini action and a ruger no1 falling block action.
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Re: Grandpas Shotgun

Post by on_one_wheel » 04 Jul 2016, 11:58 pm

Yeah clean it up, hit it with an 80 grit flapper disc and work your way down to a 240 grit ... should come up nice and shiny.

A few wood screws, picatinny rail, red dot sight and synthetic tactical stock modification will give it that " don't mess with me, I'm a tactician" look.

If you put some serious elbow grease into it you might just be able to make that $100 000 shotgun worth about $100.

Even better, stuff it's almost 200 yo ass full of black powder and blow it to bits for the ultimate devaluation.

What an amazing piece of work that shotgun is !
Thanks for sharing the pictures of it ... please for the love of old guns, don't ruin it.
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Re: Grandpas Shotgun

Post by bigpete » 05 Jul 2016, 12:40 am

I seriously hope your just being a smart arse mate. My idea of cleaning it up is to gently clean off the old finish on the stock and refinish it to show up the wood grain and carving. The barrels and metal work would just get a bit of an oil up. And considering it was indeed used to put food on the table,I can see no problem "loading it up with black powder" and using it for its intended purpose just as my grandpa did,providing it is in safe working condition. You make it sound like I'm a bloody 18 year old kid who has no respect for anything. Far from the truth. I merely want to restore it,if possible,to decent working order. I'm not a collector,and it's a fully registered firearm so I can't display it,and I can't sell it, and it was left to me because my grandpa knows I have an interest in muzzleloaders and wants me to use it. Fair enough?
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Re: Grandpas Shotgun

Post by wrenchman » 05 Jul 2016, 12:49 am

you can clean it up with some clean oil for the steal parts remove the barrels and hammers and and inspect black powder can be real hard on guns i am in the school of never remove finish clean it try some vinegar to cut the grease and oil on the stock.
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Re: Grandpas Shotgun

Post by bigpete » 05 Jul 2016, 1:07 am

Thanks I'll try that once I get green rivers to look at it and confirm one way or the other that its shootable. In theory it should be,but if not it becomes a safe queen
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Re: Grandpas Shotgun

Post by Gwion » 05 Jul 2016, 8:34 am

brett1868 wrote:
bigpete wrote:I've actually spent about a year trying to find out some info on it to no avail. Seems that no one on the internet has any info about it at all


I'd take that as an indication of rarity which suggests value. Get in touch with your local SSAA branch and see if there's one of the members that collect shotguns and see if they know anything.


And if they say, "not worth much, I'll give ya $100"; you know it's worth a lot more! :lol:
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Re: Grandpas Shotgun

Post by Gwion » 05 Jul 2016, 8:39 am

bigpete wrote:Well that leaves me in a bit of a pickle. I can't sell it as its a family heirloom in my eyes, but it's almost next to useless to me if I can't shoot it.
On another note,anyone ever heard of a "Zella" shotgun ? It's kinda like a cross between a martini action and a ruger no1 falling block action.


Mate. If it turns out to be worth a butt load, then it is a family ASSET. Cheap bunny guns are a dime a dozen. Expensive old shotguns are very rare. Don't shoot yourself in the foot for short sightedness. Find out its value before you screw it up for a bit of a blast!!!
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Re: Grandpas Shotgun

Post by Gwion » 05 Jul 2016, 8:50 am

My last two bob. Don't use any abrasive or modern oils.

I have a few old fishing reels that would be worth a dollar or two but one collector looked at them and complained about the modern grease I had lubed them with after clean up.

If you want to shoot the thing and won't be dissuaded, have it inspected, use a mild load and shoot it as is. Again, if you ruin it now, your kids may curse you one day or you may curse yourself when that unexpected financial hit comes and your now potential ASSET is just a junky old bunny gun.
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Re: Grandpas Shotgun

Post by <<Genesis93>> » 05 Jul 2016, 9:44 am

The way I see it - the only way to clean the rust is to go hard, which will require proper refinishing and re-blueing.... that will certainly change the character and if it is unique of particular high value - refinishing may increase the value, possibly decrease... thats the question... if its a $20,000 one of a kind or hens tooth specimen and you're not intended to sell - then restore it...

I would personally clean some rust off with some fine wool, give it a good oil, give the wood a tidy up, no abrasives, oil, put it in the safe and have a look at it from time to time... ideally on the wall but I dont think the 'enforcers' allow the lock-on-wall gun storage...

What Gwion says.... Guaranteed a dealer will offer either nothing, or charge you to 'dispose' of it..... theyre gun retailers.... not necessarily knowledgeable with other than the current Remington range..... they may even offer you a lot less than the true value..
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Re: Grandpas Shotgun

Post by Supaduke » 05 Jul 2016, 10:03 am

The people that run Australian Arms Auctions, or whatever they are called , might be ones to contact. They deal with a lot of that sort of rare and antique stuff and might have a better idea of its value. And working off commission it's in their best interests to get the best price.
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Re: Grandpas Shotgun

Post by <<Genesis93>> » 05 Jul 2016, 11:19 am

Proof marks?? what nitro or just BP proof?? :P

yes, sorry :sarcasm:

It possibly predates the proof houses :thumbsup:
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Re: Grandpas Shotgun

Post by bigpete » 05 Jul 2016, 11:45 am

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these are the only marks on it
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Re: Grandpas Shotgun

Post by bigpete » 05 Jul 2016, 11:46 am

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Re: Grandpas Shotgun

Post by <<Genesis93>> » 05 Jul 2016, 12:06 pm

So is it nitro proofed?? :lol: :thumbsup:

ok ok ... predates most proof houses :P

That'd be an interesting handbook :thumbsup:
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Re: Grandpas Shotgun

Post by pomemax » 05 Jul 2016, 12:11 pm

????
G. GRESSMAN, ZELLA GERMANY SIDE BY SIDE 12 BORE SHOTGUN, C1870, L 30" BBLS: German Zella 12 bore shotgun; stamped G. Gressman, Zella
Zella-Mehlis is a town in the Schmalkalden-Meiningen district, in Thuringia, Germany. It is situated in the Thuringian Forest, 5 km north of Suhl, and 20 km east of Meiningen. The town of Zella-Mehlis is the site of the original Walther Arms and J.G.Anschutz weapons factories.

I am leaning to this direction may be a bit earlier than 1870


Stendal is a town in Saxony-Anhalt, Germany. It is the capital of Stendal District and unofficial capital of the Altmark region.
Grundmann keeps coming up as a surname
what was Karls surname was it Grundmann
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Re: Grandpas Shotgun

Post by on_one_wheel » 05 Jul 2016, 12:34 pm

bigpete wrote:I seriously hope your just being a smart arse mate. My idea of cleaning it up is to gently clean off the old finish on the stock and refinish it to show up the wood grain and carving. The barrels and metal work would just get a bit of an oil up. And considering it was indeed used to put food on the table,I can see no problem "loading it up with black powder" and using it for its intended purpose just as my grandpa did,providing it is in safe working condition. You make it sound like I'm a bloody 18 year old kid who has no respect for anything. Far from the truth. I merely want to restore it,if possible,to decent working order. I'm not a collector,and it's a fully registered firearm so I can't display it,and I can't sell it, and it was left to me because my grandpa knows I have an interest in muzzleloaders and wants me to use it. Fair enough?


Of course I'm taking the piss! :lol:

I'm simply jealous as fcuk, I'd swap my first born daughter for a shotgun like that .... well almost.
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Re: Grandpas Shotgun

Post by <<Genesis93>> » 05 Jul 2016, 12:36 pm

pomemax wrote:????

:sarcasm:
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