Shottie: ATA or Akkar or?

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Shottie: ATA or Akkar or?

Post by Slant225 » 19 Sep 2017, 5:12 pm

Hi brainstrust.
I'm thinking about buying my first U/O 12G shottie after having a good time smacking the clays...
I don't hunt, it would be only for sporting and perhaps the occasional club competition at this point. (Unless I get hooked)
I've had a look at a few different brands and models, the ATA 686 range and the Akkar Churchill sporter models look around my price point, max would be about the $1000-$1200 mark.
So, cutting past the gun shop salesman pitch, what am I supposed to be looking for in a half decent shotgun that is going to last me a few years or until my ability exceeds the gun? (If ever!)
Are things like exposed chokes necessary?
Adjustable combs?
Vented barrels?
Raised or ramped ribs?
Can they all run steel shot or is this even an issue?
Do the two brands that I have mentioned offer good value for money?
Has anyone had issues with either brands?
Have I missed anything?
Sorry for the 20 questions, but like most I like to make an informed decision and HATE paying for something that fails to meet my requirements or expectations when paying a bit more could prevent that.
Cheers, and thanks for your help.
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Re: Shottie: ATA or Akkar or?

Post by bladeracer » 19 Sep 2017, 5:15 pm

Slant225 wrote:Hi brainstrust.
I'm thinking about buying my first U/O 12G shottie after having a good time smacking the clays...
I don't hunt, it would be only for sporting and perhaps the occasional club competition at this point. (Unless I get hooked)
I've had a look at a few different brands and models, the ATA 686 range and the Akkar Churchill sporter models look around my price point, max would be about the $1000-$1200 mark.
So, cutting past the gun shop salesman pitch, what am I supposed to be looking for in a half decent shotgun that is going to last me a few years or until my ability exceeds the gun? (If ever!)
Are things like exposed chokes necessary?
Adjustable combs?
Vented barrels?
Raised or ramped ribs?
Can they all run steel shot or is this even an issue?
Do the two brands that I have mentioned offer good value for money?
Has anyone had issues with either brands?
Have I missed anything?
Sorry for the 20 questions, but like most I like to make an informed decision and HATE paying for something that fails to meet my requirements or expectations when paying a bit more could prevent that.
Cheers, and thanks for your help.


Have you looked at the Stoeger Condor?
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Re: Shottie: ATA or Akkar or?

Post by Slant225 » 19 Sep 2017, 5:38 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Have you looked at the Stoeger Condor?


Thanks for the reply Bladeracer.
I hadn't to be honest.
A mate has a stoeger SxS "tactical" coachgun and his is falling apart. The wood has split and cracked, it pops open when firing and generally seems of poor build quality.
Do their other models like the condor go alright?
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Re: Shottie: ATA or Akkar or?

Post by bladeracer » 19 Sep 2017, 5:56 pm

Slant225 wrote:A mate has a stoeger SxS "tactical" coachgun and his is falling apart. The wood has split and cracked, it pops open when firing and generally seems of poor build quality.
Do their other models like the condor go alright?


Wow, maybe a warranty claim might be in order?
Mine has been just fine. 30" barrels, 3" chambers.
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Re: Shottie: ATA or Akkar or?

Post by Supaduke » 19 Sep 2017, 6:27 pm

I have an Akkar, with 20 and 30 inch barrels. It's solid, no frills, fires every time. It's not fancy but it has decent wood and seems to be well constructed. Action is tight and closes with a nice solid feel. Don't know if it's better than an ATA, never fired one. If I had my time again I would save a bit longer and get a Miroku mk 10 or Browning Citori (basically same gun I believe). Also have a look at Franchi Phoneix and Bettensoli.
Last edited by Supaduke on 22 Apr 2018, 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shottie: ATA or Akkar or?

Post by marksman » 19 Sep 2017, 6:45 pm

Supaduke wrote:I have an Akkar, with 20 and 30 inch barrels. It's solid, no frills, fires every time. It's not fancy but it had decent wood and seems to be well constructed. Action is tight and closes with a nice solid feel. Don't know if it's better than an ATA, never fired one. If I had my team again I would save a bit longer and get a Miroku mk 10 or Browning Citori (basically same gun I believe). Also have a look at Franchi Phoneix and Bettensoli.


this is what I was thinking when you mentioned shooting clay's because shooting clay's is very demanding on a shotgun,
if you had said for hunting I would have said either and either will do for clay's but I don't know for how long
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Re: Shottie: ATA or Akkar or?

Post by Supaduke » 19 Sep 2017, 7:38 pm

Well maintained, any of those shotguns will comfortably outlive you. Unless you are shooting competitively every weekend, you won't come close to wearing one out.

Functionally , more expensive shotguns have no real advantage. They are finished nicer, have nicer timber, more finesse....

As far as throwing lead shot down range for thousands of rounds, they are much of a muchness.

As far as stoegers. The full length shotguns I can't comment on, no experience. The short 'tactical' ones with rails etc, I have heard nothing but bad things. The ones I have handled were nothing short of ******.
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Re: Shottie: ATA or Akkar or?

Post by Slant225 » 19 Sep 2017, 10:17 pm

Supaduke wrote:I have an Akkar, with 20 and 30 inch barrels. It's solid, no frills, fires every time. It's not fancy but it had decent wood and seems to be well constructed. Action is tight and closes with a nice solid feel. Don't know if it's better than an ATA, never fired one. If I had my team again I would save a bit longer and get a Miroku mk 10 or Browning Citori (basically same gun I believe). Also have a look at Franchi Phoneix and Bettensoli.

What is it that a Miroku or Browning has over your Akkar? Is it simply build quality or is the Akkar lacking in some respects?
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Re: Shottie: ATA or Akkar or?

Post by Slant225 » 19 Sep 2017, 10:19 pm

marksman wrote:
Supaduke wrote:I have an Akkar, with 20 and 30 inch barrels. It's solid, no frills, fires every time. It's not fancy but it had decent wood and seems to be well constructed. Action is tight and closes with a nice solid feel. Don't know if it's better than an ATA, never fired one. If I had my team again I would save a bit longer and get a Miroku mk 10 or Browning Citori (basically same gun I believe). Also have a look at Franchi Phoneix and Bettensoli.


this is what I was thinking when you mentioned shooting clay's because shooting clay's is very demanding on a shotgun,
if you had said for hunting I would have said either and either will do for clay's but I don't know for how long


To be honest it would only be the occasional run with the clays. It seems a bit of a rich man's game, that you can blast through a box of shells in an arvo. Even on special that's a bit more cash than I'm prepared to drop every weekend.
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Re: Shottie: ATA or Akkar or?

Post by brett1868 » 19 Sep 2017, 10:48 pm

I'll second Supaduke on the Akkar Churchill as I've got the same setup, good honest gun and so far very reliable but I'm not smashing hundreds of clays with it. They do need to be stored with a good coat of oil or they'll rust.
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Re: Shottie: ATA or Akkar or?

Post by Slant225 » 20 Sep 2017, 9:35 pm

brett1868 wrote:I'll second Supaduke on the Akkar Churchill as I've got the same setup, good honest gun and so far very reliable but I'm not smashing hundreds of clays with it. They do need to be stored with a good coat of oil or they'll rust.


Thanks for your reply, Brett. Is your Akkar Churchill a blued finish?. One model, the 812 sporter in the NIOA catalogue talks about an all new nitrided corrosion resistant finish.

This is all rather confusing! Too many options haha.
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Re: Shottie: ATA or Akkar or?

Post by marksman » 20 Sep 2017, 9:47 pm

I didn't mean any disrespect about either of your choices in shotgun
if you are talking a round of clay's occasionally I could not see a problem at all
a round of clay's could be 50 shots
but to do comp shooting every weekend the shotguns will get rattly pretty quick
and the higher end shotguns get rattly as well
I used to use an old double barrel cashmore hammer job for giggles
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Re: Shottie: ATA or Akkar or?

Post by Rikta » 20 Sep 2017, 9:55 pm

if you're going cheap ya might as well go real cheap
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Re: Shottie: ATA or Akkar or?

Post by Die Judicii » 20 Sep 2017, 10:24 pm

Re your specific question pertaining to steel shot,,,, that would entirely depend on whether or not you start putting it through whatever gun you buy.
If you intend on using a lot of steel shot, the barrel/s must be suited to steel shot.
I have used on regular occasions, a Miroku Mk 10 with barrels suited for steel shot, and also a mates ATA,,,,,,, they are all good as far as I'm concerned.
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Re: Shottie: ATA or Akkar or?

Post by Slant225 » 21 Sep 2017, 10:48 am

Rikta wrote:if you're going cheap ya might as well go real cheap


?? And this helps how??

What are you referring to?
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Re: Shottie: ATA or Akkar or?

Post by marksman » 21 Sep 2017, 11:19 am

Die Judicii wrote:Re your specific question pertaining to steel shot,,,, that would entirely depend on whether or not you start putting it through whatever gun you buy.
If you intend on using a lot of steel shot, the barrel/s must be suited to steel shot.
I have used on regular occasions, a Miroku Mk 10 with barrels suited for steel shot, and also a mates ATA,,,,,,, they are all good as far as I'm concerned.


pretty sure its not the barrels that are the problem for shooting steel shot its the chokes and that's why you can get the full choke opened up on your old bettsy and safely shoot steel out of it, you can shoot steel up tp 1/2 choke, the dse did a test on shooting steel shot out of lead shooting shotguns years ago and what they came up with was that your lead proof shot gun will get a ring near the full choke being cosmetic and nothing disastrous like a blow up,
steel shot does have more punch and will get your shotgun rattly quicker than lead
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Re: Shottie: ATA or Akkar or?

Post by Rayza42 » 22 Apr 2018, 1:56 am

Ok slant225 (or should I just call you 'old val' for short? :drinks: ), I realise that I'm joining the conversation 7 months later, but did you end up buying an Akkar or an ATA? I've just discovered the joy of smashing clays, and am not interested in killing critters (even though I know there are some as must be killed). I'm looking at a new ATA 686B for $800 as my first clay-smasher and have been trawling the net looking for reviews or opinions but have not found anything other than "buy a mirouku or browning", which is generally out of my price range. Anyone got an opinion?
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Re: Shottie: ATA or Akkar or?

Post by Supaduke » 22 Apr 2018, 7:50 pm

ATA basically make a Beretta clone. The receivers are the same. The barrel is made in turkey, Beretta still use Italian barrels. The wood is a slightly different shape and profile and is Turkish walnut, not European. So not quite as nice looking, but perfectly functional.

For all intents and purposes, the ATA is a Beretta 686 with some cost cutting in the wood, final fit and where the barrel is sourced. The receivers are made in the same factory for Beretta and ATA.

That's right Beretta fans, you have a Turkish shotgun too, just like us plebs. ;)
Last edited by Supaduke on 20 Nov 2018, 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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