.22LR Uppercut from CCI

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.22LR Uppercut from CCI

Post by bladeracer » 12 Feb 2024, 10:58 am

Has anybody seen this stuff in Australia yet?
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Re: .22LR Uppercut from CCI

Post by bladeracer » 12 Feb 2024, 11:28 am

I'm interested in whether the jacketed bullet offers improved accuracy, especially at long range.
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Re: .22LR Uppercut from CCI

Post by rc42 » 12 Feb 2024, 8:20 pm

Nioa have it in their Australian catalog and they are the distributor for CCI so it should arrive eventually but who knows when that will be?


https://sporting.nioa.com.au/products/c ... hp-1640fps
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Re: .22LR Uppercut from CCI

Post by bladeracer » 12 Feb 2024, 8:58 pm

rc42 wrote:Nioa have it in their Australian catalog and they are the distributor for CCI so it should arrive eventually but who knows when that will be?


https://sporting.nioa.com.au/products/c ... hp-1640fps


I'm struggling to find any accuracy testing for rifles, everything seems to be focussed on handguns and gel testing. I would think the main strength of the jacketed bullet is in rifles at extended ranges. BC seems pathetic based on CCI's velocity loss over 100yds, around .085-ish so I don't know if it'll be much use at long-range, it might be the same as the Stinger and lose stability very quickly. As far as I can see if probably is the stinger with a new coat of paint. Oh well, just have to wait and see I guess.
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Re: .22LR Uppercut from CCI

Post by No1_49er » 12 Feb 2024, 9:48 pm

bladeracer wrote:
rc42 wrote:I'm struggling to find any accuracy testing for rifles, everything seems to be focussed on handguns and gel testing. I would think the main strength of the jacketed bullet is in rifles at extended ranges. BC seems pathetic based on CCI's velocity loss over 100yds, around .085-ish so I don't know if it'll be much use at long-range, it might be the same as the Stinger and lose stability very quickly. As far as I can see if probably is the stinger with a new coat of paint. Oh well, just have to wait and see I guess.

It's probably worth visiting a number of web entries by CCI.
One of their listings suggests a price but "not currently available". US$12.99/box (50)
Another - 32gn at about 950 fps. Optimised for 2 - 4 inch barrels i.e. handguns. Designed specifically for self-defence.
Good luck with your search.
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Re: .22LR Uppercut from CCI

Post by bladeracer » 12 Feb 2024, 10:22 pm

No1_49er wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
rc42 wrote:I'm struggling to find any accuracy testing for rifles, everything seems to be focussed on handguns and gel testing. I would think the main strength of the jacketed bullet is in rifles at extended ranges. BC seems pathetic based on CCI's velocity loss over 100yds, around .085-ish so I don't know if it'll be much use at long-range, it might be the same as the Stinger and lose stability very quickly. As far as I can see if probably is the stinger with a new coat of paint. Oh well, just have to wait and see I guess.

It's probably worth visiting a number of web entries by CCI.
One of their listings suggests a price but "not currently available". US$12.99/box (50)
Another - 32gn at about 950 fps. Optimised for 2 - 4 inch barrels i.e. handguns. Designed specifically for self-defence.
Good luck with your search.


Yes, I've seen all that, it's rifle usage I'm interested in. A jacketed bullet offers a much more consistent base for the bullet, which should help with accuracy. It appears to be the Stinger, rebranded for short-barrelled handguns with little if any differences. I guess I could just try some Stingers at long range but they shot very poorly for me last time I tried them at 180m.
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Re: .22LR Uppercut from CCI

Post by deye243 » 13 Feb 2024, 12:23 am

Well no rimfire pill of 32g even if starting at 1600fps would be any good at long range 40g and 45g are far better choices.
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Re: .22LR Uppercut from CCI

Post by bladeracer » 13 Feb 2024, 12:49 am

deye243 wrote:Well no rimfire pill of 32g even if starting at 1600fps would be any good at long range 40g and 45g are far better choices.


Yes, that would be my own expectation, the BC is almost as poor as round ball.
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Re: .22LR Uppercut from CCI

Post by deye243 » 13 Feb 2024, 2:50 am

bladeracer wrote:
deye243 wrote:Well no rimfire pill of 32g even if starting at 1600fps would be any good at long range 40g and 45g are far better choices.


Yes, that would be my own expectation, the BC is almost as poor as round ball.

I think they might be a good round for medium game inside 80y as I know of a bloke that so far has taken over 25 fellow deer with cci VELOSATORS and their performance is way above what you would expect.
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Re: .22LR Uppercut from CCI

Post by Lazarus » 13 Feb 2024, 9:11 am

Seems it's a personal protection round for short barrelled pistols

https://www.cci-ammunition.com/uppercut.html
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Re: .22LR Uppercut from CCI

Post by Wyliecoyote » 13 Feb 2024, 9:31 am

950 fps and a 40 grain bullet if it was in a rifle would offer an advantage in wind drift at long range. Just above 900 would be better.
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Re: .22LR Uppercut from CCI

Post by Larry » 13 Feb 2024, 10:47 am

Wyliecoyote wrote:950 fps and a 40 grain bullet if it was in a rifle would offer an advantage in wind drift at long range. Just above 900 would be better.


Thats pretty much nearly all standard velocity 22LR such as CCI standards.
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Re: .22LR Uppercut from CCI

Post by bladeracer » 13 Feb 2024, 10:48 am

Wyliecoyote wrote:950 fps and a 40 grain bullet if it was in a rifle would offer an advantage in wind drift at long range. Just above 900 would be better.


In a rifle I believe it does 1640fps, same as the Stinger. I use CCI Standard Velocity for long range, 40gn bullet at 1070fps.
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Re: .22LR Uppercut from CCI

Post by No1_49er » 13 Feb 2024, 12:03 pm

Let's not get derailed here, fellas.
It's a FMJ 32gn projectile (read again - thirty two grain).

Edit. Sorry, I mis-spoke.
Should have said JHP, Not FMJ.
Nevertheless, it's definately not a copper washed projectile, as has been claimed elsewhere.
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Re: .22LR Uppercut from CCI

Post by deye243 » 13 Feb 2024, 12:20 pm

No1_49er wrote:Let's not get derailed here, fellas.
It's a FMJ 32gn projectile (read again - thirty two grain).

Nope it's not its a JHP
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Re: .22LR Uppercut from CCI

Post by bladeracer » 13 Feb 2024, 12:44 pm

No1_49er wrote:Let's not get derailed here, fellas.
It's a FMJ 32gn projectile (read again - thirty two grain).


No, jacketed hollow point.
Stinger - https://www.cci-ammunition.com/rimfire/cci/stinger/6-50.html
CC_50_22LRStingerCPHPVarmint_Combo_R.jpg
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Uppercut - https://www.cci-ammunition.com/rimfire/cci/uppercut/6-960CC.html
CC_960CC_22LRUppercutJHP_Combo_Rm.jpg
CC_960CC_22LRUppercutJHP_Combo_Rm.jpg (97.81 KiB) Viewed 432 times

One is rated 1640fps in a rifle barrel, the other is rated at 950fps in a 4" handgun barrel (about the norm for the Stinger in short handgun barrels).
The Stinger loses 560fps by 100yd, the Uppercut loses 155fps by 100yd. This puts the BC for both bullets right around .085 - very poor. A standard 40gn .22LR bullet is around .135. So, virtually identical bullets and velocities but the Uppercut appears to have a thin copper jacket and a flat base rather than the "ball" of the heeled cast bullet.

Dealer got back to me just now, NIOA have them listed but haven't offered any date for supply.
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Re: .22LR Uppercut from CCI

Post by bladeracer » 20 Feb 2024, 3:40 pm

I'm starting to see lots of comments online that CCI have already pulled the Uppercut from sale due to so many people (Youtubers) testing them and finding them lacking. The tests I have seen don't show them to stack up to their advertising regarding expanding at low velocities, they just don't, though they do seem to expand beautifully out of rifles. I don't think the issue is with the bullet, I think they just marketed it in the wrong direction.

Still haven't found anybody making any serious effort to test them for accuracy though.
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Re: .22LR Uppercut from CCI

Post by No1_49er » 20 Feb 2024, 9:09 pm

Given their intended purpose, what sort of accuracy would you expect?
They are (were) marketed as being for personal defense, to be fired from a handgun with a barrel of some 4" length.
For that purpose, if it were me, I'd be happy with a ten shot group of maybe 6" at 10 feet. Personal defense, remember.
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Re: .22LR Uppercut from CCI

Post by bladeracer » 21 Feb 2024, 10:04 am

No1_49er wrote:Given their intended purpose, what sort of accuracy would you expect?
They are (were) marketed as being for personal defense, to be fired from a handgun with a barrel of some 4" length.
For that purpose, if it were me, I'd be happy with a ten shot group of maybe 6" at 10 feet. Personal defense, remember.


Even a muzzle-loading blackpowder pistol with round balls can manage that :-)

As I said, I think they marketed it wrongly as it doesn't offer anything to make it better for close-range personal defence over a standard cast lead bullet. If anything it offers less due to the reduced bullet mass. If you're going to put in the effort to manufacture jacketed bullets for .22LR I would think it obvious that any benefit will come in accuracy due to the jacketed heel of the bullet being more consistent than the balled heel of a standard bullet. As the jacket is also going to reduce the bullet's ability to deform at low-velocities it makes even less sense to market it in that direction. I hope they rethink it and turn the development toward a jacketed 40gn bullet for target shooting instead.

In a rifle they deform beautifully.
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Re: .22LR Uppercut from CCI

Post by bladeracer » 21 Feb 2024, 10:19 am

I did finally find somebody testing it specifically in rifles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPgr1l6BN6Y
He shoots five rounds for accuracy (around the 13:00 mark), which isn't much of a test but it does show some potential I think.
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Re: .22LR Uppercut from CCI

Post by deye243 » 21 Feb 2024, 10:33 am

bladeracer wrote:
No1_49er wrote:Given their intended purpose, what sort of accuracy would you expect?
They are (were) marketed as being for personal defense, to be fired from a handgun with a barrel of some 4" length.
For that purpose, if it were me, I'd be happy with a ten shot group of maybe 6" at 10 feet. Personal defense, remember.


Even a muzzle-loading blackpowder pistol with round balls can manage that :-)

As I said, I think they marketed it wrongly as it doesn't offer anything to make it better for close-range personal defence over a standard cast lead bullet. If anything it offers less due to the reduced bullet mass. If you're going to put in the effort to manufacture jacketed bullets for .22LR I would think it obvious that any benefit will come in accuracy due to the jacketed heel of the bullet being more consistent than the balled heel of a standard bullet. As the jacket is also going to reduce the bullet's ability to deform at low-velocities it makes even less sense to market it in that direction. I hope they rethink it and turn the development toward a jacketed 40gn bullet for target shooting instead.

In a rifle they deform beautifully.
Screenshot 2024-02-21 110317.jpg

Yes but at close range just about anything will expand what are they like at 80 to 100 yards .
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Re: .22LR Uppercut from CCI

Post by No1_49er » 21 Feb 2024, 11:29 am

deye243 wrote:Yes but at close range just about anything will expand what are they like at 80 to 100 yards .

Who gives a f^k what they're like at that distance. 80 to 100 yards is no longer self defence.
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Re: .22LR Uppercut from CCI

Post by bladeracer » 21 Feb 2024, 11:48 am

deye243 wrote:Yes but at close range just about anything will expand what are they like at 80 to 100 yards .


It's a .22LR bullet, I doubt anything will deform with any reliability at 100yd due to the low velocity and BC. At that range you don't need expansion, you need accuracy so you can take out the CNS.
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Re: .22LR Uppercut from CCI

Post by bladeracer » 21 Feb 2024, 11:50 am

No1_49er wrote:
deye243 wrote:Yes but at close range just about anything will expand what are they like at 80 to 100 yards .

Who gives a f^k what they're like at that distance. 80 to 100 yards is no longer self defence.


100yd can still be defensive, Paul Harrell had to engage a shooter further than that once.
But as I said, this isn't a defensive ammunition in any sense of the word. It's a step up from having nothing at all, but that's all it is.
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Re: .22LR Uppercut from CCI

Post by deye243 » 21 Feb 2024, 12:34 pm

No1_49er wrote:
deye243 wrote:Yes but at close range just about anything will expand what are they like at 80 to 100 yards .

Who gives a f^k what they're like at that distance. 80 to 100 yards is no longer self defence.

So you are saying they should NOT be imported to aus then .
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Re: .22LR Uppercut from CCI

Post by deye243 » 21 Feb 2024, 12:39 pm

bladeracer wrote:
deye243 wrote:Yes but at close range just about anything will expand what are they like at 80 to 100 yards .


It's a .22LR bullet, I doubt anything will deform with any reliability at 100yd due to the low velocity and BC. At that range you don't need expansion, you need accuracy so you can take out the CNS.

Don't discount the VELOSATORS this is one out of a fellow deer at 70y .
Not shot my me .
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Re: .22LR Uppercut from CCI

Post by bladeracer » 21 Feb 2024, 12:48 pm

deye243 wrote:Don't discount the VELOSATORS this is one out of a fellow deer at 70y .
Not shot my me .
Screenshot_20240221_133522_Gallery_copy_768x1647.jpg


The Velocitor is good ammunition, especially if it groups well in your rifle.

Why wasn't it head shot? A .22LR bullet can definitely kill, even at hundreds of meters, but I wouldn't be relying on it to do so cleanly or quickly except when placed into the brain. The blackfellas up north would just aim "at the cow" and fire as much ammo as they had, then follow it around until it finally keeled over from blood loss. I gave one bloke 50rds of .22LR and he came back an hour later wanting more ammo as the damned killer was still running around. There's good reason the stations preferred them to simply ask for a killer and they'd drop one for them rather than come out to find a dozen animals all getting around with bullets in them.
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Re: .22LR Uppercut from CCI

Post by deye243 » 21 Feb 2024, 1:49 pm

bladeracer wrote:
deye243 wrote:Don't discount the VELOSATORS this is one out of a fellow deer at 70y .
Not shot my me .
Screenshot_20240221_133522_Gallery_copy_768x1647.jpg


The Velocitor is good ammunition, especially if it groups well in your rifle.

Why wasn't it head shot? A .22LR bullet can definitely kill, even at hundreds of meters, but I wouldn't be relying on it to do so cleanly or quickly except when placed into the brain. The blackfellas up north would just aim "at the cow" and fire as much ammo as they had, then follow it around until it finally keeled over from blood loss. I gave one 50rds of .22LR and he came back an hour later wanting more ammo as the damned killer was still running around. There's good reason the stations preferred them to simply ask for a killer and they'd drop one for them rather than come out to find a dozen animals all getting around with bullets in them.

Don't know it Probably did not present properly for a head shot. Last I heard he has 27 fellow deer to this load and he uses a single shot rifle mostly just dow eaters so 22 is plenty for close ranges like he uses it for as you only need 8" to 12" of penetration on such a small animal.
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Re: .22LR Uppercut from CCI

Post by deye243 » 21 Feb 2024, 3:30 pm

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Re: .22LR Uppercut from CCI

Post by bladeracer » 21 Feb 2024, 4:02 pm

deye243 wrote:This didn't do well at all

https://youtu.be/Mj84aots_fY?si=65akz3ggdPRPuDxi


Yep. I'll just have to hope it shows up here so I can test it myself I think.
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