'See What Ammo It Likes' mythbusting

[MG5150]

Hello Everyone

I've only gotten into shooting recently after close to a 15 year break.

I picked up a 30-06 for deer hunting.

When I purchased the gun I was told that I should try out a few different ammo brands to 'see what the gun likes' and then stick with that.

Is there any truth to this or is a bullet a bullet?

I can understand certain brands being a higher quality or more consistent than other brands but the idea that gun x in Browning likes Winchester while the next gun off the production line prefers Hornady just doesn't make sense unless there are big inconsistencies in manufacturing.

I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Also, is the whole idea of reloading to make your own bullet consistently every time?

[bigpete]

There's absolutely truth to it or you wouldn't have told it. Pretty common f***ing knowledge really

[JimTom]

There's absolutely truth to it or you wouldn't have told it. Pretty common f***ing knowledge really

That’s the way to treat someone asking a question mate.

No wonder people leave this forum.

[Lazarus]

Hello Everyone

I've only gotten into shooting recently after close to a 15 year break.

I picked up a 30-06 for deer hunting.

When I purchased the gun I was told that I should try out a few different ammo brands to 'see what the gun likes' and then stick with that.

Is there any truth to this or is a bullet a bullet?

I can understand certain brands being a higher quality or more consistent than other brands but the idea that gun x in Browning likes Winchester while the next gun off the production line prefers Hornady just doesn't make sense unless there are big inconsistencies in manufacturing.

I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Also, is the whole idea of reloading to make your own bullet consistently every time?

G'day MG5150

Absolutely, guns have their likes and dislikes.
My LA101 loves Lapua Center X, one hole at 50, it hates pretty much all Aguila varieties, and CCI MINIMAG and segmented subs are like lasers, yet I could probably throw CCI Quiet more accurately than fire them.

I don't use factory ammo in my .223 so I can't say there.

[MG5150]

There's absolutely truth to it or you wouldn't have told it. Pretty common f***ing knowledge really

Does the army give every soldier 10 packs of different ammo brands and ask them to figure out which one their rifle likes best?

[No1_49er]

Does the army give every soldier 10 packs of different ammo brands and ask them to figure out which one their rifle likes best?

No they don't - because an "as issued" service rifle is not required to have benchrest type accuracy. The design requirements would have them place their shots within a certain cone of fire.
Rifles selected for sniper service are another "kettle of fish".

[bigpete]

Does the army give every soldier 10 packs of different ammo brands and ask them to figure out which one their rifle likes best?

No they don't - because an "as issued" service rifle is not required to have benchrest type accuracy. The design requirements would have them place their shots within a certain cone of fire.
Rifles selected for sniper service are another "kettle of fish".

Exactly

[bigpete]

There's absolutely truth to it or you wouldn't have told it. Pretty common f***ing knowledge really

That’s the way to treat someone asking a question mate.

No wonder people leave this forum.

Question has been asked time and time and TIME again.

[JimTom]

There's absolutely truth to it or you wouldn't have told it. Pretty common f***ing knowledge really

That’s the way to treat someone asking a question mate.

No wonder people leave this forum.

Question has been asked time and time and TIME again.

Fair enough, I guess there is a search function that can be used.

[Jorlcrin]

Does the army give every soldier 10 packs of different ammo brands and ask them to figure out which one their rifle likes best?

Well, NO; You're comparing Apples with Oranges.

They [Army] have a vastly reduced number of projectile options, for starters.
And because they dont have the time or resources to burn that much ammo..

Have a think about if you buy 10 different boxes of sporting ammo at your LGS for your rifle; good chance there will be 6 or 7 variations of projectile style, weight, and Muzzle Velocity in that mix.

Conversely, Army will have one or two options for the front-line standard-issue rifle in that calibre.

But they do have teams that will have evaluated the ammo that is the 'Best Fit' for the standard-issue rifle.
It wont perform the best in EVERY rifle issued to front-line troops, but it will be the Best Fit for what the army have available.
And producing ammo for a battlefield, is a different kettle of fish than producing sporting ammo.

I'd expect it's a VERY different story if you asked the same question of any of the army snipers; pretty sure you'll find the sniper himself has worked through what performs the very best for that particular firearm, and very good chance he's been involved in manufacturing that ammo.

Every rifle ever made will have been machined and assembled with very slight differences in tolerance.
And a number of current manufacturers have gone through periods of VERY spotty Quality Control in their sporting rifle lineups in the recent past.
[Remington had this issue some years back; I lucked out with an absolute pearler of a Rem700, but 2 of my mates who bought the same rifles at the time had nightmares in getting them to shoot straight.]

Another point will be when you are comparing like for like.
In the case of the Howa 1500 rifles, as far as I know, the .223 has had 3 or possibly 4 revisions to the twist rate in the barrels.
Each change in twist rate of the same model of rifle, will change the way the same ammo performs.

Just after I bought my first .308 in 2012, I bought a batch of 200 Hornady Match 168gn BTHP ammo, as well as a batch of 200 Highland 150GnSP.
Most of my shooting at the time was fairly short-distance(>100metres), and I would have said that both batches were performing comparably.
I didnt use all of the Highland ammo up, and when I went to use it in later years, I was much more comfortable with 150-300 metre shots.
Well, the Highland turned out to be horrendous for distances past ~100 metres.
I ended up pulling the last 5 projectiles, and I could see the powder used was a cocktail of different types, and didnt look to be the same ratios in each shell.
Mentioning this to the LGS where I bought them, he said my comment was echoed by a number of buyers of that batch of ammo.

So, as your LGS has advised, I'd be trialing what ammo your rifle performs best with.
I think he's recognizing the fact that every firearm produced, is somewhat unique.
That uniqueness becomes more obvious, as you push how far you want to shoot accurately.

QUESTION:- What would you do, if you just bought the one box of ammo, take it home, and you find it shoots like crap?
Before you decide the rifle is a dud, wouldn't it make sense to try some other ammo to see if the issue is replicated across all ammo types?
That way, you can explore what you need to do to fix the rifle(new barrel etc).
But without trialing a few brands of factory ammo, you wont ever know if the grouping from your first box, is as good as it gets.

Reloading(for me) is for multiple reasons:-

1). Availability - Most factory loads that work best in my situation, are hard to source where I live. If I stockpile my own consumables and equipment, I can load up a new batch whenever I need to.
2). Consistency - As the Highland ammo taught me, if I can reduce as many variations in the mix, then I'll have a more consistent result in the paddock.
3). Satisfaction - Batches of loaded ammo all ready to go, is a pleasing sight, and makes you consider reloading another batch.
4). Matching the rifle - As your LGS has suggested, dialling in the best load that suits my rifle.
5). Cost - For me, reloading is fairly cost-effective most of the time. Though, some of the ADI ammo is hard to pass up, and the brass is pretty good as well.
6). Understanding what your rifle is truly capable of - Nigh impossible to do solely on a diet of factory ammo.

I have a lot of money invested in equipment and consumables, so mightnt be worth it for someone only shooting 150 rounds a year.

But I think your LGS has given you solid advice; if you arent going to reload for it(work up best load with what you have available), then trialing out an assortment of different ammo will give you an idea on what works best in your rifle.

My 2 cents.

[niteowl]

Hello Everyone

I've only gotten into shooting recently after close to a 15 year break.

I picked up a 30-06 for deer hunting.

When I purchased the gun I was told that I should try out a few different ammo brands to 'see what the gun likes' and then stick with that.

Is there any truth to this or is a bullet a bullet?

I can understand certain brands being a higher quality or more consistent than other brands but the idea that gun x in Browning likes Winchester while the next gun off the production line prefers Hornady just doesn't make sense unless there are big inconsistencies in manufacturing.

I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Also, is the whole idea of reloading to make your own bullet consistently every time?

A couple of things, yes a firearm may be very picky especially a 22 LR. My CZ will shoot virtually everything the same, but it it a very tight target chamber, head space and barrel. To the point of thinking "is this going to squeeze the rim and discharge the round while closing the bolt" ??
Now my old, and I mean old 270W on an M98 action and Sportco barrel was good with any bullet weight / type and any load. Same point of impact and same group size of around one and a quarter inches.
My current 270 W is not quite the same, even though better group size with the right ammo load.

Now the reloading bit. People reload for many reasons of their own. I reload for a number of calibres for a reason, and that is I am a contract shooter and use a number of different projectiles for different situations and different "target types" and only ever shoot very few rounds total.
To look at the cost of ammo does not come into the subject, performance for the job at hand is vital.
If I was to purchase the associated loading gear based on cheaper cost of ammo, I would be on the wrong end of the stick.

[MG5150]

Thanks for all the feedback - I am green to this and appreciate everyone taking the time to increase my knowledge.

[No1Mk3]

G'day MG5150, a 22 rimfire is an odd fish, and there is a lot of truth to the statement that individual rifles often (not always) show a preference for a particular make of ammo, although even this is not set in stone as batch variability may change what your rifle like, so the answers above regarding rimfire ammo ONLY have some truth. As you actually asked about centrefire projectiles, which several respondents utterly ignored, i would contend that, no, the selection of projectile between brands is not rifle specific but quality dependant. A Sierra Matchking is inherently more accurate than a SP, ammo loaded with them will shoot better in your rifle than any other brand loaded with garbage bullets. The consideration should be shaped by purpose, your rifles twist rate, and your wallet.

[animalpest]

I just had my .222 relabelled and ran some factory ammo through it of a brand I hadn't used before. It shot pretty bad and not good enough for what I use it for.

Changed ammo brand and easily shot 1/2 to 3/4" groups.

Yep, definitely worth checking

[Oldbloke]

There's absolutely truth to it or you wouldn't have told it. Pretty common f***ing knowledge really

That’s the way to treat someone asking a question mate.

No wonder people leave this forum.

Agree . That was pretty rough.

[Oldbloke]

Worst example I can recall was my brand new 223 BO Marlin.
I bought 100 rounds of S&B ammo when I picked up the rifle.

At 50 yards shot about 150mm groups.
Checked rings, mounts etc,,,same.

After about 60 rounds gave up. Pissed to say the least.

Pulled all the bullets, sized and hand loaded using same weight bullets starting loads AR2208.

Bingo, IIRC abt 20 mm group at 50yards

Have since used those bullets and now played with super roos.


Now under 20mm at 100 yards. Very pleased.

I've seen some very average groups with factory ammo, and huge variations, brand to brand in bothe 22lr and centre fires.

I've never understood why.

[animalpest]

Worst example I can recall was my brand new 223 BO Marlin.
I bought 100 rounds of S&B ammo when I picked up the rifle.

At 50 yards shot about 150mm groups.
Checked rings, mounts etc,,,same.

After about 60 rounds gave up. Pissed to say the least.

Pulled all the bullets, sized and hand loaded using same weight bullets starting loads AR2208.

Bingo, IIRC abt 20 mm group at 50yards

Have since used those bullets and now played with super roos.

Thats the brand I tried. Bought 200 rounds and now wont use it.


Now under 20mm at 100 yards. Very pleased.

I've seen some very average groups with factory ammo, and huge variations, brand to brand in bothe 22lr and centre fires.

I've never understood why.

[on_one_wheel]

Hello Everyone

I've only gotten into shooting recently after close to a 15 year break.

I picked up a 30-06 for deer hunting.

When I purchased the gun I was told that I should try out a few different ammo brands to 'see what the gun likes' and then stick with that.

Is there any truth to this or is a bullet a bullet?

I can understand certain brands being a higher quality or more consistent than other brands but the idea that gun x in Browning likes Winchester while the next gun off the production line prefers Hornady just doesn't make sense unless there are big inconsistencies in manufacturing.

I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Also, is the whole idea of reloading to make your own bullet consistently every time?

Factory ammunition gives little choice regarding projectile choice / weight / Powder burn rate / projectile speed and seating depth , somewhere our there you will find something that shoots well or noticeably better than others.
When you start reloading (if you get serious) you will find a very good combination of projectile choice / weight / Powder burn rate / projectile speed seating depth , neck tension and primer, you'll also be able to minimise variations in all areas including case volumes, runout, flash hole uniformity and all sorts of stuff at that point you should work out what she likes.
.
My advice would be to grab yourself a decent reloading book, they explain in great detail how you can achieve greatness .. safely.
Secondly, do a heap of digging around in the reloading section, there's a bucket load of great information there

[Blr243]

I hope my hunting rifles shoot well with ppu. Because it’s cheap and the brass is great … my heavy barrelled howa 243 loves ppu

[bladeracer]

You're talking about cartridges, not bullets. Yes, you need to find a bullet (the bit that strikes the target) that works in your firearm. Sometimes you'll find something that only works within a window, which is fine if you're loading your own ammo, but might not be so good if you're stuck with factory ammo. Generally, I've found that a bullet either works or it doesn't. If it works it'll work regardless of what velocity you run it at.

If you're going to use factory ammo then grab a box of different bullet weights and designs that are still suited to the purpose you intend to use them for and see if your rifle has a preference. You should be able to find something that shoots consistently well enough for the purpose. If you can't then I'd say it's time to handload. You might want to run a 200gn bullet but your rifle might prefer 150gn bullets, that can be annoying. Thankfully, in .30-cal the range of bullet weights is enormous, from about 80gn up to 250gn or more.

I think the main advantage of loading your own ammo is that you can load for the job you're doing; the velocity you want with the bullet you want to use. Handloading should allow you to find a sweet spot where you get good consistent accuracy from it. The next advantage is it allows you to use bullets that your dealer doesn't have factory loads for. Order the bullets you want to try and load them up yourself. For example, you were talking about non-lead hunting bullets. If you wanted to try the locally-manufactured Outer Edge copper bullets, you would have to load them yourself as I'm not aware of anybody offering them in factory ammo.

Hello Everyone

I've only gotten into shooting recently after close to a 15 year break.

I picked up a 30-06 for deer hunting.

When I purchased the gun I was told that I should try out a few different ammo brands to 'see what the gun likes' and then stick with that.

Is there any truth to this or is a bullet a bullet?

I can understand certain brands being a higher quality or more consistent than other brands but the idea that gun x in Browning likes Winchester while the next gun off the production line prefers Hornady just doesn't make sense unless there are big inconsistencies in manufacturing.

I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Also, is the whole idea of reloading to make your own bullet consistently every time?

[bladeracer]

There's absolutely truth to it or you wouldn't have told it. Pretty common f***ing knowledge really

Does the army give every soldier 10 packs of different ammo brands and ask them to figure out which one their rifle likes best?

Militaries only use a handful of platforms with very specific ammunition. The platforms are designed in parallel with the ammunition expected to be used in them. And they have significantly larger group tolerance than most hunters would find acceptable, we shoot as smaller targets, and try to get clean kills. Soldiers shoot at larger targets hoping to simply get a hit somewhere that will incapacitate an enemy, or at least keep their head down so you can move. Commercial hunting rifles often try to offer one-minute accuracy out to 100m at least, military firearms might offer three-minutes, sometimes less than that.

Commercial ammunition is made to work in every possible design of firearm in that chambering. Some of it will definitely work better in some firearm designs, and poorly in others.

[Oldbloke]

One of the problems with shooting is the amount of ammo you can waste trying various brands. Say,, 5-6 boxes.

Then you buy say,,80 rounds of the preferred ammo.

Then two years later you can't buy that ammo anymore. Sooo,,,off you go buying another 5 - 6 boxes just to try. Costs start adding up.

By the time you do all that you could have just bought a reloading kit for the same or less money.

When you reload:

Cheaper ammo.
More control
More choices
Better quality.
More accurate.
Made to what you want/need.

[deye243]

Yasee this place has f*** all stickys and this is why you get every newby asking the same s**t every couple a months .

[bigrich]

Thanks for all the feedback - I am green to this and appreciate everyone taking the time to increase my knowledge.

ask as many questions as you want mate , a lot on here are only too happy to help . i think bigpete must've been having a bad day

as a forum there's all sorts of characters on here . i think for the avatar's there should be a function that gives them a black or white cowboy hat to sort out the good from the bad except for my ole mate stix that used to be on here . he was making a frontiersman style raccoon skin hat out of culled feral cats at one point

just one other thing , oldblokes picture isn't a avatar ! he really looks like that and hunts with a blunderbuss (just kidding OB)

[Oldbloke]

Thanks for all the feedback - I am green to this and appreciate everyone taking the time to increase my knowledge.

ask as many questions as you want mate , a lot on here are only too happy to help . i think bigpete must've been having a bad day

as a forum there's all sorts of characters on here . i think for the avatar's there should be a function that gives them a black or white cowboy hat to sort out the good from the bad except for my ole mate stix that used to be on here . he was making a frontiersman style raccoon skin hat out of culled feral cats at one point

just one other thing , oldblokes picture isn't a avatar ! he really looks like that and hunts with a blunderbuss (just kidding OB)

My grandson took that pic of me while we were packing to go hunting for drop bears and yowies.
Yowie stew,,mmmmm. Yum.

[Vince24]

While it is absoluetely true that a brand new given rifle may prefer one type of ammo rather than another, it is all the more emphatically true if the rifle has a less than perfect bore.

My family-owned Kar 98A (taken from the germans in 1944) had quite a bad bore when I inherited it.
I tried it first at 50m only with S&B factory FMJ ammo:

50m S&B.JPG (743.06 KiB) Viewed 7173 times

What a disaster! You wonder how it's even physically possible at such a short distance after traveling in a 60cm barrel.

Then I tried PPU ammo at 50m:
A lot better:

50m PPU Match.jpg (98.81 KiB) Viewed 7173 times

However, when trying to push to 100m, even those PPU factory ammo would not group in the virsual of the target - score was under 70.

So I got into handloading and designed a very low pressure load with 41 grains of 2208 behind an S&B SPCE projectile (196 grains).
And this is what it did at 100m:

100m 86 SPCE 196gr 41g 2208.jpg (527.38 KiB) Viewed 7173 times

Score 86 at the 2nd attempt.

I don't think there should be any doubt that the type of ammo makes a big difference - and it's generally not only a matter of price, but more the type of projectile and its speed. A certain barrel will like a certain speed for a certain type of projectile. Barrel harmonic etc...

[Vince24]

While it is absoluetely true that a brand new given rifle may prefer one type of ammo rather than another, it is all the more emphatically true if the rifle has a less than perfect bore.

My family-owned Kar 98A (taken from the germans in 1944) had quite a bad bore when I inherited it.
I tried it first at 50m only with S&B factory FMJ ammo:

50m S&B.JPG

What a bloody disaster!
You wonder how such a dispersion is even physically possible at such a short distance after traveling in a 60cm barrel.

Then I tried PPU ammo at 50m:
A lot better:

50m PPU Match.jpg

However, when trying to push to 100m, even those PPU factory ammo would not group in the virsual of the target - score was under 70.

So I got into handloading and designed a very low pressure load with 41 grains of 2208 behind an S&B SPCE projectile (196 grains).
And this is what it did at 100m:

100m 86 SPCE 196gr 41g 2208.jpg

Score 86 at the 2nd attempt.

I don't think there should be any doubt that the type of ammo makes a big difference - and it's generally not only a matter of price, but more the type of projectile and its speed. A certain barrel will like a certain speed for a certain type of projectile. Barrel harmonic etc...

[Oldbloke]

To be sure, to be sure.

[Lazarus]

Yasee this place has f*** all stickys and this is why you get every newby asking the same s**t every couple a months .

It can be frustrating trying to find an old thread if you can't recall the exact name, too

[in2anity]

A old timer once said to me; "I've figured out the secret formula to all my rifles. It's... <DRUMROLL> ... 100% case fill".

It's worked for me, to this day, in all my rifles, ranging from my service rifles, through to sporters, through to my target rifles.

Any service rifle should be grouping into 3moa at worst at 300m, preferably 2moa, otherwise you are just wasting your time.